Ok We get it you can stand for the anthem now

I have a problem with the idea of noncompliance justifying a death warrant. If police officers can't get the situation under control without using lethal force then maybe they need more training. In an ideal world, a person would comply with the officers, because one way or another, they are going to win. To expect that though, is irrational, as humans in general are irrational beings. You would think dealing with a non-compliant citizen would be a pretty standard practice during training. It isn't just a black problem, but a criminal justice problem in general. Law enforcement needs to be kept in check, or as many conspiracy theorist would fear, could result in a police state.

We need police, but we need police that are heavily trained and screened to pass strict competency tests. This country has a serious criminal justice problem from top to bottom, and I am glad people are standing up to hold the nation accountable for its injustices.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

What about the cases of White skinned people waving Guns and shooting at police and they have been safely detained. IE: not Murdered ?

a reply to: YenSid

More whites are shot by police than blacks. Choose your arguments more carefully.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yeah, because "white" Americans outnumber "black" Americans by close to a 5 to 1 ratio. Now, do white Americans also get killed 5 times more often by police or are we killed disproportionately more?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Specifically these stories.

www.alternet.org...

usuncut.com...

Also, you are not taking into account the ratio of White skinned people to Black Skinned people. Also if you added the percentages of all 'Non-White Skinned people Versus that of White Skinned people I believe the outcome would be different still.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yeah, because "white" Americans outnumber "black" Americans by close to a 5 to 1 ratio. Now, do white Americans also get killed 5 times more often by police or are we killed disproportionately more?

This has been discussed over and over again.

You are right that whites outnumber blacks 5 to 1, with blacks being around 13% of the population. Yet they commit 52% of murders, and other violent crimes in disproportional numbers.

ucr.fbi.gov...

There were around 37 million blacks, and 4379 black arrests for murders, that means that blacks had a .00012 chance of being arrested for murder.

Whites were around 196 million, and there were 3799 white arrests for murder. This means whites had a .00002 chance of being arrested for murder.

Now I will grant this isn't exact becaus ethe population numbers are rounded, but its pretty close. Could the reason blacks are 5x more likely to be shot by police be that they are commiting about 5x more of the violent crime?

I am sure you are aware of the Harvard study that showed that actually unarmed whites are more likely to be shot by the police.

www.nytimes.com...

Now I am sure you will say, "yeah but those stats can be skewed in this way or that" but you won't apply that same scrutiny to the stats on blacks shot by the police.

According to the Guardians tracking of all people shot by cops in the US only 33 unarmed black men were killed by police this year. 65 unarmed white men have been killed.

Given the polices more likely hood to have high stress encounters with blacks do to the disproportional amount of violent crime in some black neighborhoods, these ratios are about what you would expect.

Every unjustified shooting is a tragedy, but are we really supposed to think that these numbers suggest a police force that can't wait to kill blacks. heck, more police have been shot this year than unarmed black men. But keep the narrative going.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Elephant in the room, can you honestly say the ratios of crimes committed and tendency to be aggressive with police matches that ratio? We can discuss various underlying circumstances, but let's not be so disingenuous that we bury the fact that there are different offense rates across various races and creeds.

Mr. Crutcher chose suicide by cop.

If some white cop's career gets ruined and her family gets bankrupted, so much the better.


If his life mattered, to him, would he turn his back to a cop and walk away? Was she ordering him to do that? Seriously? No cop ever told anyone, ever, to turn around and march away with their hands in the air. He was DEFYING police orders. He wasn't reaching for the window; he was about to open the door and barricade himself in the car. ... so they would have to kill him one way or the other.

Because once he's dead, his family gets millions. This is the "Eric Garner Script." Do you know what Garner's last statement was, before he said "I can't breathe? It was simple: "I'm NOT going to jail today."

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So that's grounds to kill someone and everyone should accept it and we should all be happy about it?

Come off it.

Surely your overtly right-wing sensibilities can see thats wrong?

a reply to: redempsh

Why did they order him out of the Car in the first place? because he was having Car troubles, so you would be willing to give up all your rights?

Would you be willing to be ordered out of your Car? of your home? Regardless if you agree with murdering innocent people

a reply to: neformore

Well Neff, as far as accepting it goes, you have to establish a line somewhere. At what point do you establish that line? Does the line occur at police feeling threatened, being beaten or shot at, or near death? Or are you one of the handful of irrational out there who have no line and believe police should not defend themselves in any way? Where's your line that's permits the use of deadly force?

As for "happy about it" goes, don't be foolish. You're a smart enough person to recognize there are things in this world which one can accept while not being remotely happy about. We probably differ greatly on the value we place on these lives, I'll grant you that... I refuse to mourn the "loss" of anyone who would likely steal from me or otherwise threaten my being... if one of those is killed by an officer, or really anyone, why in the hell should I be saddened by that? But it isn't a zero sum game... just because there's no sorrow doesn't mean there's automatically joy.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: YenSid

More whites are shot by police than blacks.

By raw numbers, yes.

By percentage, no.

originally posted by: YenSid
a reply to: redempsh

Why did they order him out of the Car in the first place? because he was having Car troubles, so you would be willing to give up all your rights?

Did they order him out? That isn't on the video. Is that what his family says happened?

Would you be willing to be ordered out of your Car? of your home? Regardless if you agree with murdering innocent people

Cop has to have probable cause. Even if they don't. I'm going to comply, and sue later.

Regardless if you agree with murdering innocent people

How do you know he's innocent?

originally posted by: kruphix



By raw numbers, yes.

By percentage, no.

What percentage are you referring to?. Read the link to the Harvard study in my above posts, it concluded unarmed whites are more likely to be shot by police.

My whole post above shows why using ratios is flawed.

originally posted by: wildapache
a reply to: nobunaga

Well i guess you are right..it was absolutely necessary to shoot Amadou Diallo(look him up) a few dozen times for reaching for his wallet.It was absolutely necessary to choke Eric Garner for selling loosies...

If you get it,why nothing changes?

As well as shooting innocent cops in Dallas and Louisiana, who had absolutely nothing to do with shooting unarmed black men. So shot while being black is wrong. Shot for wearing blue is wrong.

a reply to: Grambler

The FBI data reflects arrests, right?

Not convictions?

Not technically, for example, "murders committed"?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

The FBI data reflects arrests, right?

Not convictions?

Not technically, for example, "murders committed"?

You are absolutely right. However, the huge amount of disparity would still seem to suggest that their is much more violent crime in some black neighborhoods. Hence, more high stress encounters with police.

Let me make it clear here, in no way do I think that this means that every shooting of an innocent black man (or person of any color) by police is not an outrage. Nor do I think it means that all black people are more likely to be criminals.

It is just that there are certain areas, like inner city Chicago and Detroit, where violence is much higher, and as a result tense situations with police are more likely. It just so happens these areas are heavily populated by black people.

So despite the fact that there are more white people overall, the amount of high intensity encounters with whites and blacks by the police are around the same.

This is backed up by the Harvard study that shows that unarmed whites are actually more likely to be shot by police.

Im not a fan of standing for the anthem. and don't get me started on the stand/sit merry go round that is catholic church.

Im just not someone that follows ritual, or does stuff because the people around me demand it.

Even worse, it highlights a major cognitive disconnect: vets get angry over it because they believe their service was to our nation, and not the corporations pulling the strings. Yes, soldiers have died in the past for our right to protest. How does it serve their memory to demand the protest stop?

Its all just so stupid and sad at the same time.

a reply to: redempsh

So are you saying we should automatically assume Guilt now? I mean, Innocent until proven guilty right?

they found no Weapon on him or in his Car, he wasn't rushing them, I don't see any "Threat" to Shoot.

Should we accept a Militarized Police State, where we are always assumed Guilty?

a reply to: Grambler

The disparity in arrests? To me it suggests that Blacks could be heavily targeted by police, rather than implying that "they" are simply more prone to murder for some reason. What logic is there in that? The data about the disparity of incarcerated African Americans similarly suggests a justice system out of balance. Couldn't it be for the same reason, that being that the average Black person doesn't have the legal resources to defend themselves on par with the average White person because of socio-economic differences rather than racial ones?

The Harvard study? You mean the Fryer study? This? Strongly critiqued because he only analyzed data from the City of Houston TX?

EDIT: Please ignore the latter. I am mistaken.