Mainstream Islam Is The Antithesis Of Western Liberal Values (BY THE NUMBERS)

What I find odd is that no news channel will say Merry Christmas anymore but I have heard the mention the holy month of ramadan.... why not just say happy holiday for that as well?

also, you call those countries "islamic" countries, but any nation that is not "islamic" cannot be called a "Christian" nation.

You seem triggered.

Perhaps you begin to understand the true power of the First Amendment, and the absolute requirement that, in America at least, we do not allow the separation of Church and State to be eroded.

True religious freedom only exists when the government is not religious.

Cultural and moral relativism is destroying the western culture. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. For a relativist there is no ground to stand upon so like fly chit on a window still, they get blown around by the first breeze that comes along. The left likes to dress it up in the term "progressive" but fail to notice the progress can go in either direction - up or down. They'll never realize their utopia or understand they are getting played big time.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I want to have the freedom to insult every religion if I felt the need to.

If I want to draw Mohammed, I damn well am going to draw him.

Freedom.

That's what I want.

And that is why we cannot forget that the 1st Amendment exists here in the United States, it gives us the right to insult every religion if you or I so desire to

That and drink lots of coffee while doing so.

This is what I find to be ironic: when "some people" say negative things about blacks, i.e., lazy, thugs, gang members, welfare abusing, promiscuous, etc., and are called on it - they claim "I'm not putting them down because of their race, I'm talking about a specific culture". But when it comes to Islam, it's the whole religion and everyone who follows it that's the problem, according to these same people. So: black people - it's not the whole race/ Muslims - it's the whole religion. Cognitive dissonance?

Similar to the black "cultural problem", the problem is NOT Islam itself, the problem is a cultural one. There are many, many Muslims in America who have assimilated with the American culture while still worshiping Islam. These same Muslims are completely fine with living in a secular government with secular laws, as long as they have their right to personal religious freedom. Why aren't we happy giving them that?

I would say the same thing if there was a group trying to force all Christians out of the country just because a group of southern Christians were trying to take away the rights of the LGBT community. I say - stop anyone who is breaking our laws or trying to take away someone's constitutional rights. Otherwise, leave them in peace.

a reply to: kaylaluv

exactly well said. I love and work with many muslims and I do nit recognise anything in the op to do with the muslims I know. They are moderates and some drink and a bacon butty etc. They do not think their religion is the be and end off all just as many christians do not follow all the ten commandments.

Well, this is interesting.

An ATS thread that was created using a vast amount of work from someone else's blog, which links to many different sources, including anti-Muslim, anti-gay and white supremacist sources.

Guess our standards are pretty low these days and long as the right propaganda terms are used.

a reply to: introvert

Not all of those hyperlinks go to the blog.

I had clicked thru quite a few of the posts and each time they were BBC / PEW / national media type polls / articles about polls.

I decided the blog authors post titles for the polls / articles of the polls made for a nice clean presentation so I ran with it. The view of the blogger should be irrelevant assuming the posts are the studies, and the studies are scientific.

And its saved from spending DAYS on the thing, so sue me. I dont get paid for this crap in fact instead I go thru great personal, lasting sacrifice whenever I dig in as "IIB" for stretches like this.

I love how the attitude around here by the 'liberal' crowd is "OMG OMG that's infowars / etc I wont even open it or consider its contents no matter what is in it because I know they don't like my viewpoint", and then set about trying to make that the focus of the thread. If you're only willing to entertain the ideas of your own, and are unwilling to even look at the outsiders views, that's the stuff of CULTS.

If there is specific data that isn't scientific then please do make it clear, otherwise if we can focus on the actual issue that's how it should be.

a reply to: kaylaluv

And ironically, some of the secular Muslim-majority govts are the ones the West has attacked, like Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon (through Israel). And the "rebel" fighters we back are typically anti-secular, like the "rebels" in Syria, Chechnya, and Libya. Western govts also have no problem propping up some of the non-secular Muslim-majority govts, like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. Then again, we shouldn't be surprised since our govts also supported Pakistan after its military had a coup against its 1st female Prime Minister, the Muslim Benazir Bhutto.

So ironically, some of the same people who claim to be against the anti-secular Muslim groups have literally supported them against secular Muslim groups. Our troops have trained them & fought for them in many instances; our tax dollars aid them in their wars; and our defense industry arms them.

It's like people are so short sighted that they completely ignore the ramifications of their war support. They literally never ask if we'll be fighting or helping the secular Muslim groups every time they agree for the "need" of another war.

Even this thread seems to get the message backwards. Hardline and conservative Muslims may be against many "Western values", but this thread attacks progressives, which would include the progressive Muslims who are trying to implement those very values. People here ignore the fact that there are Muslim women's rights groups and Islamic feminists who push for women's equality in Muslim-majority countries. They even use Quranic verses to prove their argument.

Just as there are Muslims who are anti-death penalty, Muslim women who don't wear head coverings, Muslims who love different elements of Western pop culture (Iran has a lot of this), Islamic LGBT groups, and Islamic democracies, etc. But people here ignore all of this and ironically seem to shun Muslim-majority countries for not implementing those very progressive ideas that they shun here at home. And they simply ignore the Muslim-majority countries and organizations that do.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You may notice that some of the same folks believe that every African American lives in the ghetto on Welfare.

They live in a post-fact culture.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: kaylaluv

And ironically, some of the secular Muslim-majority govts are the ones the West has attacked, like Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon (through Israel). And the "rebel" fighters we back are typically anti-secular, like the "rebels" in Syria, Chechnya, and Libya. Western govts also have no problem propping up some of the non-secular Muslim-majority govts, like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. Then again, we shouldn't be surprised since our govts also supported Pakistan after its military had a coup against its 1st female Prime Minister, the Muslim Benazir Bhutto.

All that foreign meddling that's been going n over there since like over 60 years ago I've been harshly criticizing in here and elsewhere for over a decade. How 'insane' I think they Islam thing tends to play out has never been much worth my time in posting about. Same with any religion, I dont make it my business to convince people to be in them or not kind of thing. Not until they stat coming my way anyways.

This thing we're seeing now in the EU where they're setting up Sharia Courts, and all that insane rape stuff, general attitudes supporting the 'crazy stuff', and this thing where the Democrat's want to import them and set them up their own little segregated colonies, all this finally got my attention.

I forgot to add this last night:


If Muslim's want to come in and throw down the anti-woman anti-free speech etc ways from the old world, and actually adopt our values, then by all means. But if they're coming here just to bring this kind of barbarism, then hell no. And how any true liberal that's all about all that "Social Justice" stuff can bend over backwards to let them going on just on the anti-woman head trip stuff alone it defies all reason. More than anything else I can think of.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Not sure if you know this, but many Western countries (like America) already have "Beth Din", which are literal Jewish courts. These courts and Sharia courts are arbitration courts which are still superseded by their host country's laws.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I dont get paid for this crap in fact instead I go thru great personal, lasting sacrifice whenever I dig in as "IIB" for stretches like this.

You poor guy. Such a martyr you are. Must be tough copying and pasting links, videos and graphics.

I love how the attitude around here by the 'liberal' crowd is "OMG OMG that's infowars / etc I wont even open it or consider its contents no matter what is in it because I know they dont like my viewpoint", and then set about trying to make that the focus of the thread.

I did click through it. That's how I found links to some shady sites.

If there is specific data that isn't scientific then please do make it clear, otherwise if we can focus on the actual issue that's how it should be.

Sure. Can you provide the statistical data that proves your graphic that 77% of rapes in Sweden are caused by 2% of Muslim men? The source you used cites an anonymous source.

Your source even admits that it cannot prove that claim because of the change in laws in 2005.

How "scientific" of them, huh?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: enlightenedservant

You may notice that some of the same folks believe that every African American lives in the ghetto on Welfare.

They live in a post-fact culture.

Even worse, I think they live in a "one step" culture. As in, they only think their ideas through one step. They never seem to think about the larger ramifications of them.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

and this thing where the Democrat's want to import them and set them up their own little segregated colonies, all this finally got my attention.

Isn't that kind of like, "I don't have a problem with blacks, except I don't want any in my neighborhood"?

If Muslim's want to come in and throw down the anti-woman anti-free speech etc ways from the old world, and actually adopt our values, then by all means. But if they're coming here just to bring this kind of barbarism, then hell no. And how any true liberal that's all about all that "Social Justice" stuff can bend over backwards to let them going on just on the anti-woman head trip stuff alone it defies all reason.

I don't know any liberal who has said that Muslims should be allowed to throw gays off buildings or burn women alive. Not a one.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I dont know anything about all that. I normally dont spend any time all year worrying about other peoples religions, sexuality, and so on.

But now that I finally got sucked into figuring out what all this "Social Justice" stuff is about, and how one of the biggest things 'they' go CRAZY about is this so-called "Rape Culture", for the liberal platform to be about going nuts over criticisms of Mainstream Islam (in practice) as we saw Ben Affleck there, you know what when I look out across the the world most anti-woman culture it has to be Islam. If there's a "Rape Culture" it is Islam (in practice).

And dont get me wrong. I realize the Holy Bible has many of those 'stone them to death' etc etc etc kind of passages in it as the Quran. But why it is the way Islam plays out in practice when "it" just cant seem to gt along half as good as Christians the past 100 years, or whatever, is just too much. Its just the antithesis of Western Liberal Values (which by the way were born of descendants of the Christian faith). The finer points of such, whatever.

I think the rapid outflow effect we've been seeing is a big part of the problem. When they come trickling out as I assume they always did I see it as getting one effect (like how its been here int he US for decades). But when they just start DUMPING out across the lands, in big groups, and end up in big colonies, assimilation goes kaput.

Islam is a total package, religion, government, culture.
Not all muslims are like that argument can work in reverse as well.

American muslims are not at all representative of the average muslim. These are people who were smarter, more secular, and motivated to leave their dump of a country.
It takes a special kind of person to leave their country in small numbers and have a go in another culture and have a go in the free market.

A literal march into europe with people of your own culture where they set up cultural enclaves and live off welfare is not this same kind of person.

Another issue is what happens when the muslim population is a country hits certain thresholds. The book Slavery, Terrorism and Islam goes over how an increasing muslim destroys a previously non-muslim nation.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Nice try. My deal is you come ramming # down my throat, start oppressing people, etc, you're going to get my attention and then etc.

And yet liberals seem to go nuts if anyone criticizes Islam. Which in practice tends to want to throw gays off of buildings. If EVERYONE doesn't criticize that kind of stuff then that's giving that kind of stuff a "PASS". THey want to be in the new world they need to drop that old world stuff. They dont seem particularly geared to doing that all on their own. They need to FULLY understand that barbarism IS barbarism, and it needs to stop. If you criticize people criticizing it that is effectively coddling them that do that stuff. And it should be the rally cry for the true moderates to rise up against it. Instead, int he UK we're seeing Sharia Courts, and all that other crazy stuff becoming the new norms IN THE NEW WORLD.

How do you reconcile all of that (the stuff in that polling data) with your sense of Social Justice? Please help me understand it, because I gotta tell ya, it's makes you guys look totally insane (no offense).

originally posted by: jellyrev
Islam is a total package, religion, government, culture.
Not all muslims are like that argument can work in reverse as well.

Right.

And that's why I'm now saying the Neocon's had it right with their annoying "Islamofacsist" term, following my own sort of definitions of Nazi'esque mind supremacy:

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
In the past I've criticized the Neoconservatives for using Nazi like social psychology propaganda techniques:
Neoconservative (Nazi) Mind Control was used by Bush
The best past example would be the way the Nazi's converged different social mindset biases into one solid construct. What they did was they turned the Nazi political party, German Nationalism, Race and Religion into one single concept / mindset. That meant, to question something about one level of social group was to question everything. For example, if you questioned the Nazi party itself it meant, in the minds of those who had been indoctrinated / brainwashed, that you were also questioning / attacking the Race and the Religion and the Nation and so on.]

That was from 2007. This is from 2016:

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So what the Neocons did was merge party with nationality with religion. If you criticized Bush or Republican Big Brother / war policies then that meant you were an anti-American Islamofascist. What I never got around to doing however, was how soon after Obama took office the Liberal Media started labeling anyone who didn't support his policies as being "racists". So right after Bush stepped out, the DNC crowd already started basically resorting to the Bush social psychology propaganda playbook, or rather the Nazi playbook of race politics, where the Neocons didn't actually use the race card overtly, and with Obama it was double-down race cards all up the sleeves. This was an early sign the SJW phenomenon we're seeing today, or perhaps better explained as the kind of Media policy that helped to create it.

]

Dark Mind Sciences: The Cult of PC


Perhaps the biggest problem here is we don't have (that I know of) proper terminology to differentiate between the political / religious / etc concepts of what Islam in practice is. We've gt the "one thing" to call it, and if we use that terms that's "insensitive". What gives?!?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Can you deal with the actual issue, or is trying to frame this around dissenters being bigots (while protecting bigots) the only tool you have in your toolbox?