In a Basket of Deplorables

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

I think the problem people are having is that saying half of all Trump supporters are deplorable, you are implying one out of every two Trump supporters are deplorable. Which means that anybody who is a Trump supporters or is friends with other Trump supporters, you're implying that numerically half of those friends and family must be deplorable people. I know more that two Trump supporters that are family I love. Numerically you've implied at least one of them is a deplorable human being by agreeing with Hillary.

Either that or miraculously none of the Trump supporters in people lives they love happen to be in deplorable half.

At which point, who are the deplorable ones since you won't own up to calling 50% of peoples Trump supporting family and loved ones deplorable by association?

Well, only if one takes Clinton's political rhetoric literally, which is confusing since some of the same folks who are complaining here spend half their time explaining why Trump didn't' mean what he actually said.

(See what I did there? "half their time" is metaphorical actually hyperbole, meaning "a lot their time" or "an inordinate amount of their time.")

(Figures of speech are funny, no?)

As to what you're saying to me. If we were going to do a literal analysis of what I said, in my experience, 2/3 of all Trump supporters are "racist, sexist, et. al."

So as far as people getting their feelings hurt, I would have to say they didn't listen to what Clinton actually said, because then, it would seem, that they might assume that their friend, family member or what have you, was instead a hard-working American, trying to protect and prosper their families, who are just looking for a change ... and that they deserve empathy and respect for having a different opinion on things than Clinton or her supporters do.

That latter sentiment has offered me correction in assuming previously that all Trump supporters are pointless idiots. I was mistaken in that. Clinton, in this case, was correct.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Because three of the four describe themselves that way.

The fourth just thinks he's being "politically incorrect."

If they nominally describe themselves as such, then that is a fair assessment.

Either way, the argument isn't whether racism, sexism, homophobia are deplorable, as you are suggesting. The argument is whether a vast amount of Trump supporters are racist, sexist, and homophobic, something that is not only unprovable, but an accusation that can justify indiscriminate violence and bad behavior against people, whether they are guilty of those crimes or not.

Okay. If the claim (i.e the rhetorical device Clinton used in the speech) is unprovable, then neither you nor anyone else here can prove that half of Trump supporters AREN'T racist, sexist, et. al.

So you're reacting to something you claim is impossible to know.

Please. Accusations don't cause people to act. People choose to act because of their natures. Words are not the causes.

Right?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Okay. If the claim (i.e the rhetorical device Clinton used in the speech) is unprovable, then neither you nor anyone else here can prove that half of Trump supporters AREN'T racist, sexist, et. al.

So you're reacting to something you claim is impossible to know.

Please. Accusations don't cause people to act. People choose to act because of their natures. Words are not the causes.

Right?

I'm not reacting to the impossibility of knowing someone's thoughts. I'm reacting to Clinton's fallacy, and the emotional response to it. Yes it is unprovable. correct.

People are led by the contents of their beliefs, unfortunately, as is evidenced by the article "Meet Trump's Basket of Deplorables" I linked to in the OP.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

However you are interpreting your reaction, you're still reacting. You clearly understand that no one can truly know how many of Trump's supporters are "deplorable" therefore, Clinton was just making a rhetorical point, not speaking literally.

Seems reasonable.

Right, people are led by the contents of their beliefs, not the words that are used to describe those beliefs. So the words are powerless in the face of belief.

I can't disagree.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

The only folks Hillary Clinton called "deplorable" are racists, sexists, homophobes and religious bigots.

She specifically called half of Trump's supporters deplorable and irredeemable, whether they are racist, homophobes and sexist or not. She never said racists, sexists and islamophobes are deplorable. She merely used those terms to describe half of Trump's supporters.

Was she wrong?

Is she ever right?
So Trump had roughly 10 million votes.
5 million of them are racist?
That's the entire state of Colorado!!!
I hate to inform you racism is no where near that common in America. I know it doesn't suit your needs. But his bogey man you all are so worked up over doesn't exist. It is a mirage created by the liberals to put a name to this imaginary enemy. Something you can all rally against since you all were becoming so fractured under the corruption of the democrat party. Can't all see you're being manipulated?
Can't you all see this is how civil wars are breed?

Have you ever met a Trump supporter in real life?
Was he a confederate flag waving, minority hating, womanizer like you all claim 50% of us to be?
Doubt it...

Most Trump supporters don't openly admit support because the left can't contain their violent tendencies when they encounter "The enemy". When will you all realize that your political dogma is toxic and destructive to the republic?

a reply to: JAY1980

Not all of them are racist. Some of them are sexist too. And, some of them are homophobes.

a reply to: Gryphon66

However you are interpreting your reaction, you're still reacting. You clearly understand that no one can truly know how many of Trump's supporters are "deplorable" therefore, Clinton was just making a rhetorical point, not speaking literally.

Seems reasonable.

Right, people are led by the contents of their beliefs, not the words that are used to describe those beliefs. So the words are powerless in the face of belief.

I can't disagree.

I never stated she was being literal, nor did I ever think was. As a matter of fact, I noted that even she stated she was being grossly "generalistic", as if that was a real word. Yet I linked to an article that did take it literally, and tried to prove it true. In fact, there are many articles of the same sort.

Let's get this out of the way first, so maybe we can find some common ground.

Are you against the violence, heckling, bullying and slandering of others for their political persuasion?

Second, do you oppose rhetoric that justifies that behavior?

a reply to: JAY1980

Is she ever right?

Yes. What's your point?

I hate to inform you racism is no where near that common in America. I know it doesn't suit your needs. But his bogey man you all are so worked up over doesn't exist. It is a mirage created by the liberals to put a name to this imaginary enemy. Something you can all rally against since you all were becoming so fractured under the corruption of the democrat party

I'm not a democrat and I am not creating any boogeyman. I only asked if she was wrong.

Can't all see you're being manipulated? Can't you all see this is how civil wars are breed?

No need to go drama queen on us. Go get some damn air for god's sake.

Have you ever met a Trump supporter in real life? Was he a confederate flag waving, minority hating, womanizer like you all claim 50% of us to be? Doubt it...

I know many Trump supporters. Many of them hate immigrants, say disparaging things about women and want to deport people. I cannot place a firm statistic on that, but it's anecdotal anyway. Doesn't mean much.

Most Trump supporters don't openly admit support because the left can't contain their violent tendencies when they encounter "The enemy". When will you all realize that your political dogma is toxic and destructive to the republic?

More generalizations and hyperbole. The left is no more violent than the right. Both sides have their idiots.

I think a bigger threat to our republic is the people that react with emotions and forget to use the constitution as their guide. Like those that don't like gays people getting married or claiming one religion is a threat over all others.

I know many Trump supporters. Many of them hate immigrants, say disparaging things about women and want to deport people. I cannot place a firm statistic on that, but it's anecdotal anyway. Doesn't mean much.

Weren't you also the one who admitted to attending a KKK rally to talk about gun rights once?

Of course, some of them may have been Hillary supporters too.

When you talk about hating immigrants ... is that immigrants or illegal immigrants? There is a major difference. A good portion of one side of my family is made up of legal immigrants of varying ethnicities, but I have little sympathy at all for illegal immigrants of any ethnicity. They broke laws to come here and have to continue breaking laws to stay.

Say disparaging things about women? Like what? That they should be responsible for their choices? I say that all the time as a woman. Shouldn't I know being a woman?

And, gosh, deporting people who are here illegally whatever the reason and whatever their ethnicity is the law. You may disagree with it, but your avenue is to seek to advocate to change it, not to label people who feel that the laws ought to apply and be followed in this matter.

a reply to: ketsuko

Weren't you also the one who admitted to attending a KKK rally to talk about gun rights once?

It wasn't a rally, but yes I did talk to a group of people and some were members of the KKK. I knew of two that were members, but I did not know the full extent until afterwards.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic though.

Of course, some of them may have been Hillary supporters too.

Politics was not the topic of discussion.

When you talk about hating immigrants ... is that immigrants or illegal immigrants?

I didn't ask. I only went by what they said.

Say disparaging things about women? Like what? That they should be responsible for their choices? I say that all the time as a woman. Shouldn't I know being a woman?

I cannot post what I have heard some of them say. It would be against T and C's. Let's just say that responsibility was not their choice of words.

a reply to: ketsuko

There was a video of a white guy at a Trump rally yelling at some Hispanic protesters to "just make my tortilla and build that wall for me". That's a little more abrasive than just "I want all immigrants to follow the laws". I would label that person a xenophobe/racist/all-around jerk.

IMO she shouldn't have said it, but the people being big fat crybabies over it are the same ones that rant about SJWs and call people snowflakes whenever their chosen messiah is criticised for name calling or generalising others.

They say they are anti-PC unless it offends them. Hypocrites unite!!!

Is free speech, free expression, deplorable?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
"
I am a proud member of the "Basket of Deplorables" if Hillary actually thinks of me that way without even asking how I or others she gave the term to think, then I am 100% happy to not have anything to do with her. Also this even furthers my idea that I must be doing the right thing.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Aside from the stench of red herring ...

Have you argued that no one can be responsible for the actions of others based merely on words spoken, or not?

Are you saying that words themselves have power to cause action? Or is it rather the beliefs of people who act and they are solely responsible for the content of their actions?

a reply to: Beach Bum

......if Hillary actually thinks of me that way without even asking how I or others she gave the term to think, then I am 100% happy to not have anything to do with her.

But she didn't. You willingly jumped in that basket, proudly declaring yourself "racist, sexist and homophobic".

a reply to: Gryphon66

Have you argued that no one can be responsible for the actions of others based merely on words spoken, or not?

Yes I have. People who perform the actions are the ones responsible for them. These same people use words to justify their actions.

Are you saying that words themselves have power to cause action? Or is it rather the beliefs of people who act and they are solely responsible for the content of their actions?

Yes, people are led by the content of their beliefs, not words. People are agents, words are not.

Are you against the violence, heckling, bullying and slandering of others for their political persuasion?

Second, do you oppose rhetoric that justifies that behavior?

a reply to: windword

She's lumped in conspiracy theorist amongst others (all opposers to her / SJW's effectively):



The deplorables thing was just her continuation of that speech.

originally posted by: Beach Bum
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
"
I am a proud member of the "Basket of Deplorables" if Hillary actually thinks of me that way without even asking how I or others she gave the term to think, then I am 100% happy to not have anything to do with her. Also this even furthers my idea that I must be doing the right thing.

^^This^^

And I just bought my Deplorables T-shirt with Never Hillary on back from the Rush Limbaugh site. Not a big fan of Rush but I really like Mark Stein. And if they asked me I'm for legal immigration with strong vetting and physicals.

STM

a reply to: windword

No I'm just proud to "not" be one of her trolls. Windword if you have been paying attention even on of her lackeys said the definition should be extended to all of us. I am a proud white man with a cousin who has a black daughter and another who has a Mexican husband. The sexes are damn near equal in most respects these days in some eyes, although yes pay and some treatment is still an issue. I also couldn't care less if a person is straight, gay bisexual, transgender or whatever else, I'm just tired of seeing that deplorable witch, telling us that we need to change our thinking.