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In a Basket of Deplorables
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In a Basket of Deplorables
Never once did I expect to find myself in the same (oh lord) basket of deplorables as with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Duke, the KKK, The New Black Panther party, Pepe, and by extension, a whole host of other unsavory individuals. I am suspicious of anything these people have ever done, especially that Pepe, who appears to be no more than a crudely drawn frog. But guilt by association has been a popular tool of politicians this campaign season, and propagandists in general, that I am not in the least bit surprised to find myself on the receiving end of it.
Upon asking anyone who agrees with the guilt by association employed by the (good god) basket of deplorables comment to compile a simple list of these bigots, racists, white supremacists and sexists—or even to point them out—I imagine their lists would be as tiny as their reason, or at least in inverse proportion to their susceptibility to Clinton’s sophistry.
To those who accept sweepingly broad claims as facts and not as linguistic conveniences, Hilary was at least lenient enough to remind them of her gross generalizations. Still, as evidenced by the indiscriminate violence, hatred and indignation against Trump and his supporters this political season, they are nonetheless so inured to group think and tribalism, that the gross and hasty generalization was convincing enough to maintain the fallacy.
How do you choose which of us are guilty and which one of us are innocent of these charges? Too much work is involved in going to talk to real people, so go by the polls of course, and apply the percentages as best as you can to the reality—that is, if you ever step out into it. Read the articles, let the bloggers convince you, and above all, let someone else tell you which percentage of your opponents are this, and which percentages are that, long before you ever go and find out for yourselves. With this logic, if you wanted to go put some real fear into racists, your best bet would be to start swinging at random Trump supporters, because in due time you'll be sure to get your wish.
About those polls. I was led to a couple of Rueters/IPSOS polls from a New York Times piece endorsing the same blanket condemnations of fellow citizens. I imagine these are the same polls Hilary herself used to come up with the (jesus) basket of deplorables. According to one, the polls prove that a 40 to 50 percent of Trump supporters would describe blacks as more criminal, unintelligent, lazy and violent. There was a graphic to prove it. Hilary was right. I began to question my affiliations. I would have ran in the opposite direction if the polls didn’t show that a frightening degree of Clinton and Cruz supporters held the same noxious views, leaving them at least a coin-purse of deplorables. Admittedly shocked, I searched for the questionnaire and the data among the article, suspicious of loaded questions, bias, and the like, but the data was missing. I searched through the Reuters/IPSOS polls on Reuters polling page and found no poll, let alone the supportive data. I even went to the website of partner company, IPSOS, which has the data of each poll available for scrutiny, and searched through all their Reuters/IPSOS polls and found no such polls, let alone the data supporting them. After making an account, going through every poll on IPSOS as far back as summer of 2015, even filtering the results with keywords such as “blacks” and “lazy” and “Islam”—nothing. Granted, I am a horrible sleuth and perhaps I just couldn’t find the data. I am not as technologically advanced as I could be and maybe my ignorance led me astray. I opted for the pub when I could have spent more time at a screen looking. I hope, at least, that my own incompetence prevented me from finding them, because anything else would be worrisome. One thing is fairly certain: presenting such racially charged interpretations of polls without providing the questions nor the data is unethical pseudoscience, and propaganda of the worse sort. Those who are led by these articles to view others in a certain way deserve the name “dupe”, and until they can present their data and methodology, they are no more than a purveyors of propaganda.
But those who condemn you for the company you keep because they are too easily led by the guilt by association fallacy are usually found to be in bad company themselves. In an article by Jenna Johnson of the Washington Post entitled “Me et Donald Trump's Basket of Deplorables”, which reports the feverish protests outside of a Trump rally, the only behavior worthy of condemnation was that of the protesters. Holding signs with expletives and epithets in combination with the jeering, the bullying and the assault of fellow Americans they have never met, and whose only crime it was to go and see a political rally, is nothing short of deplorable. This is thought policing; this is coercion; this is oppression. Sometimes, irony is as easy as that.
These are tribalistic times. It makes you wonder what Orwell might say this political season, but I have a good idea. “Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don’t imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.“ In the end, we will find out who is irredeemable.
Thank you for reading.
LesMis
Never once did I expect to find myself in the same (oh lord) basket of deplorables as with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Duke, the KKK, The New Black Panther party, Pepe, and by extension, a whole host of other unsavory individuals. I am suspicious of anything these people have ever done, especially that Pepe, who appears to be no more than a crudely drawn frog. But guilt by association has been a popular tool of politicians this campaign season, and propagandists in general, that I am not in the least bit surprised to find myself on the receiving end of it.
Upon asking anyone who agrees with the guilt by association employed by the (good god) basket of deplorables comment to compile a simple list of these bigots, racists, white supremacists and sexists—or even to point them out—I imagine their lists would be as tiny as their reason, or at least in inverse proportion to their susceptibility to Clinton’s sophistry.
To those who accept sweepingly broad claims as facts and not as linguistic conveniences, Hilary was at least lenient enough to remind them of her gross generalizations. Still, as evidenced by the indiscriminate violence, hatred and indignation against Trump and his supporters this political season, they are nonetheless so inured to group think and tribalism, that the gross and hasty generalization was convincing enough to maintain the fallacy.
How do you choose which of us are guilty and which one of us are innocent of these charges? Too much work is involved in going to talk to real people, so go by the polls of course, and apply the percentages as best as you can to the reality—that is, if you ever step out into it. Read the articles, let the bloggers convince you, and above all, let someone else tell you which percentage of your opponents are this, and which percentages are that, long before you ever go and find out for yourselves. With this logic, if you wanted to go put some real fear into racists, your best bet would be to start swinging at random Trump supporters, because in due time you'll be sure to get your wish.
About those polls. I was led to a couple of Rueters/IPSOS polls from a New York Times piece endorsing the same blanket condemnations of fellow citizens. I imagine these are the same polls Hilary herself used to come up with the (jesus) basket of deplorables. According to one, the polls prove that a 40 to 50 percent of Trump supporters would describe blacks as more criminal, unintelligent, lazy and violent. There was a graphic to prove it. Hilary was right. I began to question my affiliations. I would have ran in the opposite direction if the polls didn’t show that a frightening degree of Clinton and Cruz supporters held the same noxious views, leaving them at least a coin-purse of deplorables. Admittedly shocked, I searched for the questionnaire and the data among the article, suspicious of loaded questions, bias, and the like, but the data was missing. I searched through the Reuters/IPSOS polls on Reuters polling page and found no poll, let alone the supportive data. I even went to the website of partner company, IPSOS, which has the data of each poll available for scrutiny, and searched through all their Reuters/IPSOS polls and found no such polls, let alone the data supporting them. After making an account, going through every poll on IPSOS as far back as summer of 2015, even filtering the results with keywords such as “blacks” and “lazy” and “Islam”—nothing. Granted, I am a horrible sleuth and perhaps I just couldn’t find the data. I am not as technologically advanced as I could be and maybe my ignorance led me astray. I opted for the pub when I could have spent more time at a screen looking. I hope, at least, that my own incompetence prevented me from finding them, because anything else would be worrisome. One thing is fairly certain: presenting such racially charged interpretations of polls without providing the questions nor the data is unethical pseudoscience, and propaganda of the worse sort. Those who are led by these articles to view others in a certain way deserve the name “dupe”, and until they can present their data and methodology, they are no more than a purveyors of propaganda.
But those who condemn you for the company you keep because they are too easily led by the guilt by association fallacy are usually found to be in bad company themselves. In an article by Jenna Johnson of the Washington Post entitled “Me et Donald Trump's Basket of Deplorables”, which reports the feverish protests outside of a Trump rally, the only behavior worthy of condemnation was that of the protesters. Holding signs with expletives and epithets in combination with the jeering, the bullying and the assault of fellow Americans they have never met, and whose only crime it was to go and see a political rally, is nothing short of deplorable. This is thought policing; this is coercion; this is oppression. Sometimes, irony is as easy as that.
These are tribalistic times. It makes you wonder what Orwell might say this political season, but I have a good idea. “Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don’t imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.“ In the end, we will find out who is irredeemable.
Thank you for reading.
LesMis
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
If you feel as if you're finding yourself on the receiving end of "guilt by association", perhaps because that's because you've deliberately placed yourself in a situation where you're defending the most deplorable actions and fans of your chosen candidate.
If you're feeling the pressure of "guilt by association" then perhaps you're projecting your own insecurities and shadows of your own deplorable-ness, because Hillary Clinton never said that ALL Trump supporters can be grouped in that "basket of deplorables", just the ones who actually are, which she estimated at around 50%.
As a reminder, here's what she actualy said.
It seems to me that you're the one picking sides, choosing to side with the "deplorable 50%". You could choose to side with the other 50% of Trump supporters, but somehow you proudly identify with the worst of the worst. Why is that?
Upon asking anyone who agrees with the guilt by association employed by the (good god) basket of deplorables comment to compile a simple list of these bigots, racists, white supremacists and sexists—or even to point them out—I imagine their lists would be as tiny as their reason, or at least in inverse proportion to their susceptibility to Clinton’s sophistry.
If you feel as if you're finding yourself on the receiving end of "guilt by association", perhaps because that's because you've deliberately placed yourself in a situation where you're defending the most deplorable actions and fans of your chosen candidate.
If you're feeling the pressure of "guilt by association" then perhaps you're projecting your own insecurities and shadows of your own deplorable-ness, because Hillary Clinton never said that ALL Trump supporters can be grouped in that "basket of deplorables", just the ones who actually are, which she estimated at around 50%.
As a reminder, here's what she actualy said.
We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
www.politifact.com...
It seems to me that you're the one picking sides, choosing to side with the "deplorable 50%". You could choose to side with the other 50% of Trump supporters, but somehow you proudly identify with the worst of the worst. Why is that?
edit on 15-9-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)
a reply to: windword
We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
In order to treat your enemy as less than human, first you must "dehumanize" them.
In order to treat your enemy as less than human, first you must "dehumanize" them.
I cant decide if I want to be a deplorable in this basket or an infidel..
I'll just be an infi'plorable
I'll just be an infi'plorable
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
I don't know if most of us here are Trump supporters as much as we are #neverHillary people. That being said I am a difficult individual who can be a bit of a dick, but I don't consider myself a 'deplorable' either.
I don't know if most of us here are Trump supporters as much as we are #neverHillary people. That being said I am a difficult individual who can be a bit of a dick, but I don't consider myself a 'deplorable' either.
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
I find it deplorable that you have so many people in the U.S and so few choices.....tbh i would feel dirty voting for any of the candidates you have to choose from so i dont blame you for feeling this way....
I find it deplorable that you have so many people in the U.S and so few choices.....tbh i would feel dirty voting for any of the candidates you have to choose from so i dont blame you for feeling this way....
originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
In a Basket of Deplorables
Never once did I expect to find myself in the same (oh lord) basket of deplorables as with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Duke, the KKK, The New Black Panther party, Pepe, and by extension, a whole host of other unsavory individuals. I am suspicious of anything these people have ever done, especially that Pepe, who appears to be no more than a crudely drawn frog. But guilt by association has been a popular tool of politicians this campaign season, and propagandists in general, that I am not in the least bit surprised to find myself on the receiving end of it.
I know. This is all insane. It is deplorable!
Great writing as usual!
From around social media:
edit on 15-9-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)
Deplorable symbol of white supremacy!
edit on 15-9-2016 by Konduit because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: LesMisanthrope
I don't know if most of us here are Trump supporters as much as we are #neverHillary people. That being said I am a difficult individual who can be a bit of a dick, but I don't consider myself a 'deplorable' either.
Exactly, Trump is a giant question mark where Hillary is a very, very bad known.
I'll make my lemonade Trump flavored before I'll lift a finger to help out Hillary.
originally posted by: Metallicus
...but I don't consider myself a 'deplorable' either.
Deplorables never do.
Just as villains don't consider themselves villains. Deplorable actions are always justifiable in the minds of deplorable people.
Not to say I think you're deplorable, mind you. Really.
originally posted by: subject x
originally posted by: Metallicus
...but I don't consider myself a 'deplorable' either.
Deplorables never do.
Just as villains don't consider themselves villains. Deplorable actions are always justifiable in the minds of deplorable people.
Not to say I think you're deplorable, mind you. Really.
Neither did Hillary ... really and that's the point.
It's a way of denigrating and dehumanizing everyone who disagrees with you to try to shame them into either shutting up and not opposing you anymore or otherwise browbeating us into pretending we join you.
See, that guy circled in red was a deplorable too.
a reply to: windword
Yeah you know what's crazy? I don't care.
I don't care if some supporters are out of line, racist, or even violent.
This isn't some group herd I'm part of. I'm one voter, Independant from other voters, I've always been conservative but not Republican.
I'm voting for Trump because of his policies, and I think he's the best person for the job.
So the stereotype that democrats try to place on us, only unite the ones actually willing to drive to the polls, because voter enthusiasm is at a low, and the brunt of that is going to hit Hillary and her SJW, white guilt, politically correct army.
Yeah you know what's crazy? I don't care.
I don't care if some supporters are out of line, racist, or even violent.
This isn't some group herd I'm part of. I'm one voter, Independant from other voters, I've always been conservative but not Republican.
I'm voting for Trump because of his policies, and I think he's the best person for the job.
So the stereotype that democrats try to place on us, only unite the ones actually willing to drive to the polls, because voter enthusiasm is at a low, and the brunt of that is going to hit Hillary and her SJW, white guilt, politically correct army.
Being an individual is sometimes difficult. If you don't belong to a "herd" then people will try to put you in one.
a reply to: windword
Sorry; that dog don't hunt.
I clearly heard every word Clinton said. I also heard her supporters claiming that anyone who didn't denounce the Confederate Battlejack was racist. I watched it ripped from war memorials.
My ancestors fought under that flag. I'll never deny my heritage. I may state some things my ancestors did were wrong, but I will never deny them.
EVER.
Understand that.
So, yes, according to her own words, and based on her supporters, I am part of that first basket. Never mind that I have never committed a racist act. Never mind that I personally told the KKK to take a flying leap, not once but twice, in my youth. Never mind that I can honestly say I am color-blind to other people. I will not renounce my heritage, my culture, and therefore I am deplorable.
"Redneck" started as an insult too. Now I wear it as a badge of honor. I can do the same with "deplorable."
I think a lot of folks besides me have figured out what's going on. Will she still call us deplorable when we take our country back? Will we even care what a relic of a forgotten failure calls us?
The(deplorable)Redneck
Sorry; that dog don't hunt.
I clearly heard every word Clinton said. I also heard her supporters claiming that anyone who didn't denounce the Confederate Battlejack was racist. I watched it ripped from war memorials.
My ancestors fought under that flag. I'll never deny my heritage. I may state some things my ancestors did were wrong, but I will never deny them.
EVER.
Understand that.
So, yes, according to her own words, and based on her supporters, I am part of that first basket. Never mind that I have never committed a racist act. Never mind that I personally told the KKK to take a flying leap, not once but twice, in my youth. Never mind that I can honestly say I am color-blind to other people. I will not renounce my heritage, my culture, and therefore I am deplorable.
"Redneck" started as an insult too. Now I wear it as a badge of honor. I can do the same with "deplorable."
I think a lot of folks besides me have figured out what's going on. Will she still call us deplorable when we take our country back? Will we even care what a relic of a forgotten failure calls us?
The(deplorable)Redneck
a reply to: xstealth
a reply to: TheRedneck
You don't have to justify yourself to me!
a reply to: TheRedneck
You don't have to justify yourself to me!
edit on 15-9-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)
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