The Mandolia Effect

a reply to: sputniksteve
Well played on the "hip" answer too!

I'm getting to the other questions, just thought that the last was the most important to start with.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I don't understand. Sorry this was meant for the redball reply. We can get back to it.I actually need to head to bed. Sorry to leave mid conversation. I look forward to reading your reply in the morning. Take care.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
As unsatisfactory as this answer is, I think the most important and really only thing we can take away from the Mandela Effect as one who has experienced it is how it influences your future. Not your real future but your future actions, how you interact with others, how you interpret your experiences, what things you value and what things you stop giving value.

That sort of rhetoric actually quite scares me. Even granting the time travel claim I don't think any value judgements should be made except for we could disappear tomorrow so let's live our lives to the fullest.

As I said earlier there is nothing that exists or that can be created that can represent proof or evidence for the existence or non existence of Mandela Effect as something "non local".

I think the fact that there's common agreement of the ME shows there are traces left behind somewhere regardless of the solution.

With that in mind I am not an Atheist at all. I was Agnostic boarder line aggrevated atheist for most of my life until about 4 years ago. I slowly started broadening my horizons until around 18 months ago I for a lack of a better term adopted a new perspective. I don't know if the shift in spirituality for me is applicable to others. I am happy to discuss it but I probably wouldn't share anything new that you hadn't heard in some form or another at some point in time.

Later, God can sidetrack discussions a tad.

I cannot explain the Mandela Effect any better than you can at this point in time. I don't know what has caused it, I don't know if it is benign, malignant, or neutral. I have no idea if it is active or passive, a one time event or ongoing. I don't know if has been happening through out all of time or only recently.

I think I do and it's neutral. Passive and ongoing. And throughout all of time (Humans at least)

The only thing I do know is that the
books I read growing up were called The Berenstein Bears. I don't purport to be from a different dimension, reality, time line or any variation. I don't claim time travel or time manipulation. I don't claim to be 100% sane or insane. I have no idea if there are more or less people in Kennedys car, Fruit loops, Forrest Gump, anything else that I can claim I 100% know for sure. I can go into the specific reasons why I remember it that way but they will be similar to 100s of other people reasons and won't be any more profound to you then they are to anyone else but me.

I actually agree, here. Except I may be more confident in my memory of the other one's than you. I remember 4 seats clearly, Froot Loops no question and as for Gump I wasn't a huge fan but I'd give it about 85% confidence in my memory of him saying "Is".

I am definitely open to the possibility that the entire purpose of what ever this is could be for more people to start thinking critically and be aware of their environment and surroundings. For me personally I don't care if I ever find out the truth if there even is a truth. I don't mean that I intend to bury my head in the sand, or stop searching, dreaming, thinking, or looking. More so this entire experience for me has been a part of a profound "awakening" as corny as it sounds, and the result of that awakening is much more important for me spiritually, physically, and mentally than the name of a book.

I wouldn't assign purpose to it as such. There's definitely an impact that can be felt on noticing this phenomena almost deja vu'ish and if that encourages you one way or another that's fine. However you cannot assume that everyone will be affected positively as you have been or neutrally as I have been. If your spirituality needed a boost perhaps whichever spirit you are more in touch with now just used the idea of ME to reach you as there doesn't seem to be a spiritual theme crossing it.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
I don't understand. Sorry this was meant for the redball reply. We can get back to it.I actually need to head to bed. Sorry to leave mid conversation. I look forward to reading your reply in the morning. Take care.

All good, there's no shot clock for this.

The Red ball thing is a gross oversimplification of how the brain actually works that would horrify the guys who actually understand it. But it's still accurate in it's simplification.

It comes down to synapses and neurotransmitters and more words I'm not smart enough to sound smart using.

Our brain is a mess of interconnecting roads that start blank. A thought or concept is an electrical signal going through a certain path on these roads.

If we see a red ball that we have never seen, We catalogue it by taking a path that hasn't been used before eg. left, then right then left again. And label that path "Red Ball".

It's the very nature of how we think and if we want to find out why we may think something. We must first learn how we actually think.

The way the brain uses these pathways to think (Which is far more complicated than I described) may be totally irrelevant to the Mandela Effect from a causal point. However I think it's as intellectually dishonest to just say "bad memory" as it is to say "supernatural" without considering it.

I don't see how this explains a majority of reported MEs. For example, anatomy. The version of the body I remember is not inherently more 'correct' than how it is now, it seems wrong to me on a visceral level but I imagine the same would apply to someone from this reality/timeline when seeing the body I am more familiar with. We'd both be thinking that gaps have been added or removed, our respective body plans will look wrong to both parties.

If it were me trying to fill gaps, why do I think there was a gap in the abdomen (between pecs and abs)? In your theory that would be me adding a gap, rather than filling it. Why would I think this looks 'more correct' than the real appearance? It's completely contingent what body I find looks 'correct' but what is clear is that the body that looks more correct to me is the one I grew up with and was familiar in possessing myself.

Similarly with the geography ME's, there's nothing inherently more correct in remembering NZ further north, or the US and South America more vertically lined up. It would be just as wrong for people of this reality/timeline to see these countries in this configuration as it is for us ME'ers to see them in their current configuration.


As for the word ones, your theory might work for Berenstein/Berenstain but even here I wonder how some would see "Berenstain" as looking more correct than "Berenstein". If your theory held water then most people should have the "Stein" pattern over the "Stain" pattern, shouldn't most people be perplexed that it is now "Berenstain". But you still get people who specifically remember "Stain" and have memories relating to its odd spelling, just as you have people who do remember "Stein" and have memories relating to this particular spelling.

Then you get ones like "KitKat" (instead of Kit-Kat) which is again, not a filling of a gap (or a gap in our pattern recognition) but an adding. Which one looks more 'correct'? Well that would depend on who you ask and their level of familiarity with the brand. In many of these ME's both versions (or more if there's more than two) can look both wrong and right.

a reply to: Orborus
Thanks for giving it a go! Seriously. I want to test this.

I've tried to limit this to one's I have experienced to maintain at least the same level of bias.
Could you be more specific regarding which body one? I'm not trying to avoid the question, just want to clarify which one you are talking about.

With NZ and Australia I also picture NZ a lot higher. I'm actually half Kiwi half Aussie so I should be ashamed to get that wrong. My reasoning behind that is if I try and fit NZ back to the side of Australia the easiest fit seems to place it at the level I incorrectly assume.

With KitKat, it appears to be linking 2 shortened words Kit and Kat so hyphenating it makes sense. No idea what either means but I assume incorrectly that TicTac's would have the hyphen also.

Regarding Berenstein, I tried to establish a consensus on that however everyone refused to accept the term Mandela Effect because of the supernatural element involved. I coined the term Mandolia to try and avoid that specific issue.
You're correct tho, my theory would assume the majority remember it incorrectly off the top of their heads.

I don't have a study on it, but one could easily be done.

a reply to: Orborus
Kit-Kat's used to be sold at the Kit-Cat clubs in the 18the century.

Kit-Kat's are mutton pies, so looks like they actually purposefully made it make less sense linguisticly to differentiate it from a meat pie.

Kit is short for "Christopher" apparently and Kat is short for "Catling" if anyone cares.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Orborus
Thanks for giving it a go! Seriously. I want to test this.

I've tried to limit this to one's I have experienced to maintain at least the same level of bias.
Could you be more specific regarding which body one? I'm not trying to avoid the question, just want to clarify which one you are talking about.

See my human anatomy post on this forum ("...an Earth where evolution took a slightly different turn") in terms of what I remember of the skeleton and the general proportions of the body. People have speculated I might have been conflating or confabulating with memories of cartoon depictions of skeletons, but honestly even cartoon skeletons look wrong to me (and closer to the 'new' anatomy).

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Orborus
With NZ and Australia I also picture NZ a lot higher. I'm actually half Kiwi half Aussie so I should be ashamed to get that wrong. My reasoning behind that is if I try and fit NZ back to the side of Australia the easiest fit seems to place it at the level I incorrectly assume.

I've been noticing coastlines become very messy (or at least messier than I recall), almost as if they're breaking up and/or being re-shaped. The outline of Australia (where i've lived all my life) that people draw is rather different than how it used to be drawn, it's worth keeping an eye on coastlines all over the world if you want to see on-going examples of ME-like phenomena.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Orborus
With KitKat, it appears to be linking 2 shortened words Kit and Kat so hyphenating it makes sense. No idea what either means but I assume incorrectly that TicTac's would have the hyphen also.

I think we will have to begin to question our senses, not only of what we have sensed in the past (or remember having sensed) but what we are sensing in the 'present' moment, and whether what we see before us truly has always been in this form, and if not, why not. The problem is not that we cannot know whether the thing before us is not entirely illusory, but rather that the thing we see before us is illusory in any one configuration or representation. The thing is formed through a chain of symbolic relationships, studying the mode in which a thing appears may give insight on the symbolic field as we reproduce it, as symbolic speakers and thinkers. This has implications on theory of consciousness, the unconscious etc.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Orborus
Regarding Berenstein, I tried to establish a consensus on that however everyone refused to accept the term Mandela Effect because of the supernatural element involved. I coined the term Mandolia to try and avoid that specific issue.
You're correct tho, my theory would assume the majority remember it incorrectly off the top of their heads.

I don't have a study on it, but one could easily be done.

I think its possible we are all misremembering but I wonder if we could be symbolically-speaking using this as an excuse to dispose of the symbolic habits we were once stuck on, and even disposing the evidence of having been habituated in such a way in the first place.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: sputniksteve
As unsatisfactory as this answer is, I think the most important and really only thing we can take away from the Mandela Effect as one who has experienced it is how it influences your future. Not your real future but your future actions, how you interact with others, how you interpret your experiences, what things you value and what things you stop giving value.

That sort of rhetoric actually quite scares me. Even granting the time travel claim I don't think any value judgements should be made except for we could disappear tomorrow so let's live our lives to the fullest.

As I said earlier there is nothing that exists or that can be created that can represent proof or evidence for the existence or non existence of Mandela Effect as something "non local".

I think the fact that there's common agreement of the ME shows there are traces left behind somewhere regardless of the solution.

With that in mind I am not an Atheist at all. I was Agnostic boarder line aggrevated atheist for most of my life until about 4 years ago. I slowly started broadening my horizons until around 18 months ago I for a lack of a better term adopted a new perspective. I don't know if the shift in spirituality for me is applicable to others. I am happy to discuss it but I probably wouldn't share anything new that you hadn't heard in some form or another at some point in time.

Later, God can sidetrack discussions a tad.

I cannot explain the Mandela Effect any better than you can at this point in time. I don't know what has caused it, I don't know if it is benign, malignant, or neutral. I have no idea if it is active or passive, a one time event or ongoing. I don't know if has been happening through out all of time or only recently.

I think I do and it's neutral. Passive and ongoing. And throughout all of time (Humans at least)

The only thing I do know is that the
books I read growing up were called The Berenstein Bears. I don't purport to be from a different dimension, reality, time line or any variation. I don't claim time travel or time manipulation. I don't claim to be 100% sane or insane. I have no idea if there are more or less people in Kennedys car, Fruit loops, Forrest Gump, anything else that I can claim I 100% know for sure. I can go into the specific reasons why I remember it that way but they will be similar to 100s of other people reasons and won't be any more profound to you then they are to anyone else but me.

I actually agree, here. Except I may be more confident in my memory of the other one's than you. I remember 4 seats clearly, Froot Loops no question and as for Gump I wasn't a huge fan but I'd give it about 85% confidence in my memory of him saying "Is".

I am definitely open to the possibility that the entire purpose of what ever this is could be for more people to start thinking critically and be aware of their environment and surroundings. For me personally I don't care if I ever find out the truth if there even is a truth. I don't mean that I intend to bury my head in the sand, or stop searching, dreaming, thinking, or looking. More so this entire experience for me has been a part of a profound "awakening" as corny as it sounds, and the result of that awakening is much more important for me spiritually, physically, and mentally than the name of a book.

I wouldn't assign purpose to it as such. There's definitely an impact that can be felt on noticing this phenomena almost deja vu'ish and if that encourages you one way or another that's fine. However you cannot assume that everyone will be affected positively as you have been or neutrally as I have been. If your spirituality needed a boost perhaps whichever spirit you are more in touch with now just used the idea of ME to reach you as there doesn't seem to be a spiritual theme crossing it.

I am really confused on how any self improvement from Mandela Effect could scare you? I am not suggesting this is a spiritual event or anything like that. I am only suggesting that we can't gain anything tangible from this experience. We can't bring home a souvenir that says "My reality changed and all I got from it was this stupid shirt"

The only thing we can take away from this experience is how we process it and deal with the result. For me it was positive, you neutral, and others scared out of their mind. Each of those emotions will effect your attitude and actions going forward in how we interact socially and the world around us.

That's all. I understand what you are trying to explain with the ball now. I personally don't think it can be applied to ME because it wouldn't be evidence of anything unless the brain was somehow tested for a control on an event that happened pre ME, and you can never know if anyone will experience an ME in the future and which one.

For instance with BB, I would have needed to have a control reading almost 30 years ago, long before the Mandela Effect was even invented.

It's obviously the Mandala Effect. Consider each Pattern a dimension or world, and boom, every Mandala is a perception of multiple realities.

originally posted by: sputniksteve

I am really confused on how any self improvement from Mandela Effect could scare you? I am not suggesting this is a spiritual event or anything like that. I am only suggesting that we can't gain anything tangible from this experience. We can't bring home a souvenir that says "My reality changed and all I got from it was this stupid shirt"

The only thing we can take away from this experience is how we process it and deal with the result. For me it was positive, you neutral, and others scared out of their mind. Each of those emotions will effect your attitude and actions going forward in how we interact socially and the world around us.

It's dangerous because there isn't any meaning to it all except for what people give it. How long until someone builds a narrative around it. How long until people are murdered because they "don't belong" in this timeline. There's already religious nutters thinking the devil has rewritten the bible because a lamb is with a wolf instead of a lion.

That's all. I understand what you are trying to explain with the ball now. I personally don't think it can be applied to ME because it wouldn't be evidence of anything unless the brain was somehow tested for a control on an event that happened pre ME, and you can never know if anyone will experience an ME in the future and which one.

For instance with BB, I would have needed to have a control reading almost 30 years ago, long before the Mandela Effect was even invented.

I'm just saying people should look a bit closer before they start talking alternate realities. Claiming that memories are proof of alternate realities without understanding memories in the first place is a bit of a leap.

ME's aren't that hard to reproduce. Find a common word, alter it a little. Get it famous and wait a bit.
Look at every ME you have experienced and remove your memory from the equation, is there any other reason that it should be what you thought? If you find and example where there isn't please post it here.

Basically if you are interested in memories, study the brain.
If you are interested in alternate realities study physics.
If you are interested in how to manipulate people, study the Mandela Effect.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I guess I just disagree with you on a fundamental level. I know I didn't ask for any of this, I would give it all back and be "normal" again and not misremember but I can't. I am not going to try not to think too hard about it or give it meaning, this is my F'ing life man! I might not get another one!

Without sounding preachy or coming off as condescending there is so much more in the world in front of you than you know. I know you said you aren't scared but I still believe you are. You might not even know it.

Either way you are obviously welcome to these opinions, but I certainly don't share them. I know many people that are experiencing this in their life that are making positive changes in themselves and others. I see the proof in what I am suggesting all the time.

I hope you don't get left behind man. You might have had a leg up on most of the world but you squander that advantage eventually. I wish you the best on your journey, even if it is one of attempting to go backwards IMO.

a reply to: sputniksteve
You don't need to do anything to be "normal" again. You are normal now.
If no one else experienced these ME's you would have a claim to be special but everybody does experience these.

But let's say I'm wrong and too scared to see the truth.

What truth can actually be gained? You say you have personally experienced spiritual growth as well as those around you.
What do the ME's actually say? How can I find a direction within ME's to avoid going backwards?

Can you point to one act that could be justified due to ME?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: sputniksteve
You don't need to do anything to be "normal" again. You are normal now.
If no one else experienced these ME's you would have a claim to be special but everybody does experience these.

But let's say I'm wrong and too scared to see the truth.

What truth can actually be gained? You say you have personally experienced spiritual growth as well as those around you.
What do the ME's actually say? How can I find a direction within ME's to avoid going backwards?

Can you point to one act that could be justified due to ME?

I am not quite sure what you mean by pointing out one act. If you could please specify. Do you mean one act I have personally done or one act you could do?

Normal wasn't the correct word, what I meant was normal compared to now. If I could go back to before misremembering a couple things then I would consider that back to normal for me. I don't believe that one can say that everyone experiences Mandela Effect, not even close. In fact I would argue that more people have not experienced it than have, that seems very apparent when you start discussing it online. Or at the very least there are many more people not reporting their experience than are, but either way there is a very large percentage of people that are either not experiencing it at all or lying about it. I prefer to assume they aren't lying. Then you factor in people making mistakes, cases of confabulation and incorrect memories, etc.

Real quick something I was thinking about earlier today, there are definitely reports being made that ARE confabulation, incorrect memories, mistakes, self referencing reports etc. I would never argue that all reports of ME are "legit", but I do believe some are. I realized I may have given that impression unintentionally. In short I just don't believe ALL ME reports are incorrect memories, mistakes, confabulation, etc.

You can't imagine what truths are there to be gained? I was being a little cryptic here, I wasn't suggesting that there are truths to be learned from experiencing or investigating any particular Mandela Effect. I meant that this life, this reality, this world we live in is full of truths that are available for any and all to realize but they aren't given to anyone. They require a certain amount of dedication and motivation, as well as some other things that I don't even know. If I tell them to you without you experiencing or intuiting them for yourself they will do no good. They are not very different then ones you have already heard in your life many times over. I don't suspect that me passing the message would make any difference. This seems to be for all individuals, I am not talking about just you. At least I never truly listened or understood when ever I was told, because I always needed "proof".

When I said you had a leg up and could end up going backwards, I meant in terms of your own personal journey. It sounds to me like you were on the cusp of possibly seeing or understanding these things I am talking about if you would have given yourself more credit and continued to walk the path with confidence. I doubt your journey is over in any case, and I think that your willingness to still entertain the topic instead of just making up your mind and forgetting it says a lot about your desire to have something to really hold onto. I think that is a good thing for you.

The cryptic things I am mentioning like I said aren't given to one. No one as far as I am aware spontaneously receives "enlightenment" even though it may sometimes seem that way. Like anything else in life it takes practice and dedication to train your mind to focus in different perspectives in order to utilize the periphery of your minds eye. I think that is where most of this lays, and as you get better at it you are able to see further and start to make connections that you otherwise might not have been able to make.

I am not claiming to be enlightened, or superior, or above anyone else. We all walk a different path in life and have different experiences, we value and prioritize different things. I hope to one day achieve enlightenment but all things being equal my soul is certainly lighter than it was 5 years ago.

As a side note, I hope I don't give off the impression of someone that takes all of this too seriously, or lets it interfere with their life. I am a pretty average dude, I don't talk about these types of things with most of my family and friends. I don't preach to people or even try and engage in philosophical conversations. This is something I have found for myself to be true for this moment. I certainly am not claiming to have all or any of the answers, or that I am even right. I have no idea if I will find any of this more or less true in 6 months or 6 years.

On top of all that what is true for me has no real bearing on what is true for anyone else. Regardless the experiences I have had have been profound and life changing for me, in ways that I am not sure I could even begin to describe on an internet forum let alone with my voice. I am not trying to persuade or dissuade you from thinking one way or another, I just found your perspective curious and enjoy talking with you. You won't hurt my feelings or offend me in any way if we end up disagreeing and you think I am full of crap. I certainly hope that isn't the case but I would completely understand.

When people would talk to me like I basically am to you it would piss me off. I couldn't understand why they didn't just come out and say what they wanted to say. I have come to realize there is a reason for it, and it isn't just to piss people off or annoy them or seem elite or like a member of an exclusive club. There are just some things that are really unexplainable when it gets down to it.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
I am not quite sure what you mean by pointing out one act. If you could please specify. Do you mean one act I have personally done or one act you could do?

Any act, that anyone could do. Basically, how could the theory of ME's (being real) be used to inform your actions.

Normal wasn't the correct word, what I meant was normal compared to now. If I could go back to before misremembering a couple things then I would consider that back to normal for me. I don't believe that one can say that everyone experiences Mandela Effect, not even close. In fact I would argue that more people have not experienced it than have, that seems very apparent when you start discussing it online. Or at the very least there are many more people not reporting their experience than are, but either way there is a very large percentage of people that are either not experiencing it at all or lying about it. I prefer to assume they aren't lying. Then you factor in people making mistakes, cases of confabulation and incorrect memories, etc.

People who claim not to have experienced ME's object to the idea that there is something strange. They just accept they were wrong about something and move on. This thread has people agreeing to experiencing Mandolia and not the Mandella Effect which supports this view. Basically ME is a loaded term which distorts the answers.

Real quick something I was thinking about earlier today, there are definitely reports being made that ARE confabulation, incorrect memories, mistakes, self referencing reports etc. I would never argue that all reports of ME are "legit", but I do believe some are. I realized I may have given that impression unintentionally. In short I just don't believe ALL ME reports are incorrect memories, mistakes, confabulation, etc.

That's fine however where do you draw the line? How can you separate the "real" ones from the "fake" ones.

You can't imagine what truths are there to be gained? I was being a little cryptic here, I wasn't suggesting that there are truths to be learned from experiencing or investigating any particular Mandela Effect. I meant that this life, this reality, this world we live in is full of truths that are available for any and all to realize but they aren't given to anyone. They require a certain amount of dedication and motivation, as well as some other things that I don't even know. If I tell them to you without you experiencing or intuiting them for yourself they will do no good. They are not very different then ones you have already heard in your life many times over. I don't suspect that me passing the message would make any difference. This seems to be for all individuals, I am not talking about just you. At least I never truly listened or understood when ever I was told, because I always needed "proof".

Truth without proof cannot be verified as truth. Jesus using the "golden rule" is a good example. Following the golden rule is clearly beneficial and the truth of the statement can be seen. You do not need to prove Jesus existed to see the wisdom in the words attributed to him.

When I said you had a leg up and could end up going backwards, I meant in terms of your own personal journey. It sounds to me like you were on the cusp of possibly seeing or understanding these things I am talking about if you would have given yourself more credit and continued to walk the path with confidence. I doubt your journey is over in any case, and I think that your willingness to still entertain the topic instead of just making up your mind and forgetting it says a lot about your desire to have something to really hold onto. I think that is a good thing for you.

My journey has found that people don't truly give the questions the respect they deserve. People don't seem to want truth, they want what makes them feel better. When I'm happy with my answers I'll know I've given up and found "enlightenment".

The cryptic things I am mentioning like I said aren't given to one. No one as far as I am aware spontaneously receives "enlightenment" even though it may sometimes seem that way. Like anything else in life it takes practice and dedication to train your mind to focus in different perspectives in order to utilize the periphery of your minds eye. I think that is where most of this lays, and as you get better at it you are able to see further and start to make connections that you otherwise might not have been able to make.

I am not claiming to be enlightened, or superior, or above anyone else. We all walk a different path in life and have different experiences, we value and prioritize different things. I hope to one day achieve enlightenment but all things being equal my soul is certainly lighter than it was 5 years ago.

What is enlightenment?
That's something that needs to be answered before you can hope to find it. Various people claim to have it whilst being directly opposed to others with the same claims. As far as I can see "enlightenment" is just someone who has successfully deluded themselves into believing they have the answers.

As a side note, I hope I don't give off the impression of someone that takes all of this too seriously, or lets it interfere with their life. I am a pretty average dude, I don't talk about these types of things with most of my family and friends. I don't preach to people or even try and engage in philosophical conversations. This is something I have found for myself to be true for this moment. I certainly am not claiming to have all or any of the answers, or that I am even right. I have no idea if I will find any of this more or less true in 6 months or 6 years.

On top of all that what is true for me has no real bearing on what is true for anyone else. Regardless the experiences I have had have been profound and life changing for me, in ways that I am not sure I could even begin to describe on an internet forum let alone with my voice. I am not trying to persuade or dissuade you from thinking one way or another, I just found your perspective curious and enjoy talking with you. You won't hurt my feelings or offend me in any way if we end up disagreeing and you think I am full of crap. I certainly hope that isn't the case but I would completely understand.

If you don't believe that truth is universal then what is the point of asking questions? If it is true for me, then it is true for you. People don't have different truths, people have difference misconceptions of the truth. The ideas of different truths just come around when people want to avoid difficult truths.

When people would talk to me like I basically am to you it would piss me off. I couldn't understand why they didn't just come out and say what they wanted to say. I have come to realize there is a reason for it, and it isn't just to piss people off or annoy them or seem elite or like a member of an exclusive club. There are just some things that are really unexplainable when it gets down to it.

When it comes to people discussing spirituality they are always vague. The reason people who claim enlightenment don't just give people the answers is because they don't have them. If something is unexplainable then there is nothing we can learn from it, good or bad.

You guys spend allot of time talking about something that doesn't exist........LFAO

originally posted by: ZenHorse
You guys spend allot of time talking about something that doesn't exist........LFAO

That blows my mind too.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If something is unexplainable then there is nothing we can learn from it, good or bad.

Gotta disagree with you there. Just for example ME is unexplainable... people don't really have a clue about how or why or anything... but when you experience it and realize that our understanding of reality is not even close to where we thought it was. Basically everything is out the window. That is humbling. To realize how incomprehensible reality is for us... it kind of puts things into perspective. Those ideas (for me at least) relate to God, and morality, and mortality, etc. So... not sure if that provides and insight or if it even makes sense to you, feel free to discard it totally, just felt I wanted to share that.

As for your theory I am in agreement with Orborus. Maybe some of the spelling ones could be explained that way, but others I really don't think so, especially the anatomy changes. I have a list I made of some changes that I noticed (I graduated in 2008 with a degree in Natural Sciences/Biology with ~3.4 GPA). Take a look through it and I think you'll agree that not many of the differences could really be caused by your hypothesis. Here is the list:

Heart location change (100%): Used to be on the left side of the chest and up higher (not in the middle and low). Used to see a very pronounced heart beat that I could feel (about 3 inches up and 1 inch in from my left nipple) and see moving my left pectoral . I can remember pointing out the visual to others and also remember wondering if my heart was larger or situated differently than others'. Now barely can feel it, can't see it there at all. Now to feel my heartbeat I need to place my hand beneath my pecs very slightly left of center. I can see heartbeat now causing movement that was in my pec now in my abdomen.

Kidney location change (100%): Used to be just above the top of the ilium in the lower back, totally unprotected. "Kidney shots" hurt like crazy to get punched there even if just lightly as a "joke" (I know... hilarious). Now they are much higher and protected (at least partially?) by the rib cage. Doesn't hurt to punch in the spot that used to hurt.

Scapulae (shoulder blades) size, shape, and location change (100%): Used to be fairly large, starting at the outside edge of the rib cage and at rest came to maybe 2 inches out from the spine. Also were more square compared to the blade/triangle shape that they are now. I used to be able to bring them together by scrunching my shoulders back and could "grab" my fingers with my shoulder blades... can't get them even close now. Also distinctly remember wife and I both rubbing knots out of each others' backs right near the spine (can remember feeling annoyed about too much direct pressure on vertabrae at times) and rubbing right at the edge of a (relaxed position) shoulder blade and even kind of under it trying to get knot out of a muscle. Now the two positions aren't anywhere near each other.

Other internal organs (99%): Lungs were lower and more oval shaped. Stomach was lower. Liver was much smaller and more off to the side. Intestines were less messy and started lower. Now intestines take up a much larger percentage of the available space.

Also I think ribcage is different but can't put my finger on exact differences... very similar to current, but different somewhere.

Also vertebral column connection to the skull seems slightly more towards the front of the skull now than how I remember (corresponding brainstem anatomy is also now slightly shifted forwards). In my memory the vertebrae connected to the "nub" on the lower back part of your skull... had to look it up... it is now called the "external occipital protuberance" and is exactly where the spine connected with the skull. And I am pretty sure it used to be called the occipital condyle which is now something else. Not a total expert on the skull, but I am pretty sure on this part (95%).

Also skull now has bones behind the eye sockets with a kind of slit for the optic nerve? In my memory eye sockets were open holes (95%).

The anatomy that I remember sort of seems like a hybrid between the current anatomy and the anatomy that Oroborus describes maybe? Not sure how that fits in with the overall how/what/why.

a reply to: rothanwalker
Heart location is probably just a relic of old medicine and reciting the pledge of allegiance or doing the anthem you reinforce that incorrect view constantly.

Kidneys being higher now could come down to where we feel the pain. Kidney pain is often associated with urinary stuff so that leaves a trail of possible pain points going south of the kidney.

Shoulder blades seems strange but if you look at the muscle structure you could determine the body structure with the dimensions you remember, and see if it's even feasible.

The heart location share similarities with the Berenstain Bears. (I remember both clearly and incorrectly)

Firstly, the cost to you for not knowing is always nothing. None of us are performing heart surgery or writing letters to a Berenstain.

Secondly, there is some enforcement of the error. Frankenstein, Bernstein, Silverstein etc. etc. Or in the case of the heart holding your heart while you sing anthems etc. etc. If I "cross my heart and hope to die" I'll always cross the left side.

Thirdly, the people who need to know these things correctly do. And this is the most important thing.

For the Mandela Effect to be plausible you would need to come up with a reason why the people who need to know these things don't experience ME's for them. Why don't South Africans think Mandela died in jail? Why doesn't Mr Berenstain remember the time his name was Berenstein? Why does the guy who built the JFK car remember the seats correctly?

The further removed from something you are the more likely you are to have an ME that relates to it.
That's a consistent pattern that crosses all ME's, it's also a pretty damning pattern which needs to be addressed for anyone to take it seriously.

And that's before we even get to the physics implications.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

All of those explanations might be satisfactory if it was to explain someone's "false" memories of different anatomy who hadn't studied it. I spent years studying anatomy at a University and did very well. Wouldn't I have had to have this revelation that the heart is in the center and not left much sooner than now when I was studying this? How would I be able to do well if my knowledge was that far off? You don't think I would notice a diagram that looks wrong to me in my book or on the projector? You don't think I would see a cadaver's heart in the middle and think "oh wow this guy has some sort of mutation where his heart is in the middle instead of on the left!" and point it out to someone? I know (knew lol) this material very well. I get that you are trying to find a logical explanation that could account for this phenomenon, but for me personally your reasons are not valid. I am way too knowledgeable on the subject and spent way too much time studying it and dissecting it to make such extreme errors. There is just no way it is possible. Do you disagree?

Also as a sidenote, I have spoken with two nurses who both remembered the heart being on the left and one remembered the kidneys being lower back (the other one wasn't sure but I posed the question via text and led her into looking kidney location up on her phone before explaining anything about why I was asking, so it may have tainted her memory). One specifically remembers being taught where to listen for heartbeat and specific patients that she recalls doing it for the old location. I am sure there are more out there in the medical field, but just like these two nurses they are understandably hesitant to come forth and be open about these effects which could affect their jobs.

Also did you actually see a "relic of old medicine" that shows the heart on the left?

I get that it is uncomfortable, but not wanting to acknowledge or accept it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Something has changed reality and history (edit: and may still be changing it). Just because we don't understand how it is possible does not mean that it isn't possible, you know?