Breaking News: BLM’s Wild Horse Advisory Board Just Voted To Kill All 44,000 Captive Wild Horses I

a reply to: Ne3rka

Simply put, they are wild. Indigenous species.

Sure, some are feral, but the vast majority are wild. Feral isn't really accurate either. Some returned to the wild after being domesticated, but their original genetic lines are wild.

The Native American Indians domesticated some of them through the centuries, but they were not imported here.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Thanks Flyingclaydisk, and katfish, as well.
I agree with Flyclaydisk about the mule situation, had to smile at that, actually. As an aside, there's an old method of horse training, with one difficult to manage, of tying a horse to a mule and leaving them alone. Guess who always wins, and gets the point across that cooperation can be valuable to their survival? LOL

I am aware, as well, that the inbreeding issue has certainly caused problems with horses who may be unmanageable. Some of this is a trick bag these horses exist within. Though they are wild animals, they are not apex predators, or usually predatory at all, though they can certainly be territorial and self protective at dangerous levels. Usually, in a "wild" situation, though, the balance is kept by the natural order of predation, and then by attrition of what an environment can handle in the way of population. As redhorse has pointed out quite well, that last (attrition) is, of course, a hellish death of starvation, or a "boom bust cycle," as said member put it. No one really wants to see that, either. But it does seem to me that management is a key issue, and by that I mean, something more akin to the management of resources in the form of wildlife that goes on in states like Alaska, Maine by the Wildlife and Fisheries Depts. Perhaps, therefore, there are times when humane culling of their numbers should take place, I don't know.
But perhaps there are also enough federally held lands in the form of state parks or other wildlife preserves where herds could be relocated.....

The core of that issue would become about funding such efforts, and employing people knowledgeable about equine studies and husbandry.

katfish: I, too, have done what I could in terms of dog rescue, usually the big ones, seen as agressive that would have been killed had they ended up in shelters. I applaud your efforts, as well, to help animals that are left without humane treatment or options.

Flyingclaydisk: It wasn't that I meant to ignore the mules at all. They are incredible animals, and I've some experience riding a type of mule bred in my area called a saddle mule, bigger than an average mule. They are extremely loyal and tough as hell. But I did want to make the point that horses not having jobs as they used to has been part and parcel to the creation of this issue. Certainly horses were still important enough to us that it wasn't that long ago you could still be hanged for stealing one.
regards,
tetra

This is absolutely disgusting, it's criminal. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

And if you took a care, for just one moment, to truly understand the situation, you likely would have a far different view of the matter. Instead, you are just reacting to emotions and knee-jerk mentality. (probably never owned a horse, even). Have you even ridden one even?

I will tell you all a story about an encounter with some "wild horses".

I am an engineer by profession. In my younger years I did some service as a land surveyor. We worked in some of the remotest locations imaginable. On one project we were charged with surveying a major natural gas pipeline across Wyoming (other surveyors would take it across other states, but our charge was Wyoming). The terrain was incredible (think ropes and rappelling). The project took over seven months to complete.

There was one day when we were all tired, but out on the high desert of WY. We'd seen it all. On this one particular day we had a mustang shadowing us. We'd generally go for a mile or two from the truck...we were WAY out in the boonies! He was a black horse, and he watched us from every hill top. We were running line and level, it's a long affair.

Side note - I could tell many stories about this experience, unrelated to wild horses, but whatever.

We called them "turns"; we would run a line, and then go back over that line 2,3 or 4 times to do what they called "tie the line in". Our elevations had to be within 1/100th of a foot, and our line had to be within 1/100th of a degree of angle. We quadruple checked everything! It wasn't easy, but these companies were paying HUGE sums for the engineering to be correct!

Anyway, this one wild stallion followed us all day, always on top of the highest hill. He wasn't friendly, and we knew it, but we hoped he would stay away. Well, he didn't.

At the time we were using some of the best survey instruments known to man at the time (Wild G2's and higher with EDM), one instrument was worth $45-50 thousand dollars. Every move we made on survey, this mustang moved in closer. He was protecting his mares...and it got personal.

We stopped for lunch, and he came in close. He was walking all around us, and it was pretty spooky (for me). He didn't like us being there and his ears told the story (always watch a horses ears!). We got out of the (Ford Bronco) after lunch and he ATTACKED!! We dove under the truck. He jumped up on the hood, broke the windshield, kicked out a back window, stomped out instruments (one by one), stuck his head under the truck, snarling, and generally made a complete disaster of what we were doing! That was his plan. And he paraded around, victorious,...we were terrified.

Anyone who thinks these horses aren't dangerous need to have their head examined. Granted, this mustang was probably as wild as they get, and he was cool in that respect, but OH MAN! LOOK OUT!!

The truck we took back to town that night (and we were supposed to be out of town for 2-3 days) was totaled. The roof was crushed, and I have absolutely NO idea how that horse jumped up on the hood, but he did. Under the truck, we were actually worried about the frame squashing us. It was intense.

...and I'm not afraid of a horse..ever! Honest truth!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

ok. But I do have to note that now you've also revealed you've worked on pipelines for the oil and gas industry in that area.....

Just worth noting. Of course that stallion was territorial. That essentially makes the case for why the oil industry would need such wild horses destroyed in order to maintain and build pipelines in that "protected" area. Just saying.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I will tell you all a story about an encounter with some "wild horses".

I am an engineer by profession. In my younger years I did some service as a land surveyor. We worked in some of the remotest locations imaginable. On one project we were charged with surveying a major natural gas pipeline across Wyoming (other surveyors would take it across other states, but our charge was Wyoming). The terrain was incredible (think ropes and rappelling). The project took over seven months to complete.

There was one day when we were all tired, but out on the high desert of WY. We'd seen it all. On this one particular day we had a mustang shadowing us. We'd generally go for a mile or two from the truck...we were WAY out in the boonies! He was a black horse, and he watched us from every hill top. We were running line and level, it's a long affair.

Side note - I could tell many stories about this experience, unrelated to wild horses, but whatever.

We called them "turns"; we would run a line, and then go back over that line 2,3 or 4 times to do what they called "tie the line in". Our elevations had to be within 1/100th of a foot, and our line had to be within 1/100th of a degree of angle. We quadruple checked everything! It wasn't easy, but these companies were paying HUGE sums for the engineering to be correct!

Anyway, this one wild stallion followed us all day, always on top of the highest hill. He wasn't friendly, and we knew it, but we hoped he would stay away. Well, he didn't.

At the time we were using some of the best survey instruments known to man at the time (Wild G2's and higher with EDM), one instrument was worth $45-50 thousand dollars. Every move we made on survey, this mustang moved in closer. He was protecting his mares...and it got personal.

We stopped for lunch, and he came in close. He was walking all around us, and it was pretty spooky (for me). He didn't like us being there and his ears told the story (always watch a horses ears!). We got out of the (Ford Bronco) after lunch and he ATTACKED!! We dove under the truck. He jumped up on the hood, broke the windshield, kicked out a back window, stomped out instruments (one by one), stuck his head under the truck, snarling, and generally made a complete disaster of what we were doing! That was his plan. And he paraded around, victorious,...we were terrified.

Anyone who thinks these horses aren't dangerous need to have their head examined. Granted, this mustang was probably as wild as they get, and he was cool in that respect, but OH MAN! LOOK OUT!!

The truck we took back to town that night (and we were supposed to be out of town for 2-3 days) was totaled. The roof was crushed, and I have absolutely NO idea how that horse jumped up on the hood, but he did. Under the truck, we were actually worried about the frame squashing us. It was intense.

...and I'm not afraid of a horse..ever! Honest truth!

He was protecting his Mares and defending his Territory ,

You My Friend and you Colleges

Invaded it ... as so the Horse would of thought ..

That Simple..

He seen the Truck, your Equipment, if its Noisy a Threat

I assume you haven't been in Territory's where there's Bear, Wolves, Coyotes , COYWOLVES , Moose? ,
How about Caribou ?
but seeing you were are Surveyor ... did you have that experience.. with them ...?

you would have a hayday in my Parts of the Woods .. LOL .. as thats what we have ..

well yeah The Ears are a Sign so is the Tail, Stomping the ground , and all other Body Language !


but Snarl .. now thats funny first time i heard that ...

I think you meant a Pissed off Blowing or Snorting ..
Saying get OUT of HERE!!!


and thats really funny Im LMAOF here thinking about it !!
a Ford Bronco ( truck ) and Bronco meaning Untrained Horse un-ridden unbroken against a Wild Mustang.. The Irony ..
and The Mustang Beating the # out of a FORD ..


anyhow i do like your Story .. informative of the surveying part ..

I was a Former Horse Owner Former as in the my Ex My Baby Momma got the Horses

1) Mustang ( 4 color (Rare) Paint Mix his father was a Pure Wild Mustang, his Mommy of Course was the Paint

My Mustang Mix ( just a Baby )


MY EX on The Mustang Paint ( Shadow )

Luckily His Wild Horse Daddy was saved or he wouldn't exist!

MEANWHILE

Some Wild Horses
Sharing a Beach with some Humans

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

What is the source of this information? I have looked and looked and I can not find anything about your story.
The story is heartbreaking if, you know anything about Horses. Where did this story come from?

a reply to: Wolfenz

I assume you haven't been in Territory's where there's Bear, Wolves, Coyotes , COYWOLVES , Moose? ,

Ummm, I grew up in Wyoming for cripes sakes! What do you think?? I practically lived outdoors with all those animals, and more (you'd need to add antelope, mountain sheep and cougars to your list). No wolves though, wolves at the time were right were they should be today...on the endangered species list. Don't even get me started on the wolf subject! Regarding bears, yeah, I've been around more than a few of those also, working as a fishing guide and outdoor survival instructor on the Kenai and Russian rivers and surrounding areas in south east / central Alaska. I've spent a considerable portion of my entire life outdoors in the wild.

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

ok. But I do have to note that now you've also revealed you've worked on pipelines for the oil and gas industry in that area.....

Just worth noting. Of course that stallion was territorial. That essentially makes the case for why the oil industry would need such wild horses destroyed in order to maintain and build pipelines in that "protected" area. Just saying.

Yes, indirectly. No shame at all in that. And yes, the mustang was being territorial and we were outsiders in 'his' world.

My story was not intended to serve as justification for the actions stated in the OP. It was merely intended only to illustrate the dangers of 'some' wild horses. Really, the story was provided more for entertainment than anything else.

Incidentally, the oil and gas industry has never advocated for the removal of wild horses. They pose no threat or obstacle what so ever. This is a common myth held by those looking to demonize oil and gas exploration/development. Moreover, while I have issues with some of what the industry does, I'm not going to be foolish enough to suggest it should just be halted. Just saying.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
And if you took a care, for just one moment, to truly understand the situation, you likely would have a far different view of the matter.

You assume a lot about me, and all of its wrong. I understand that you were in his territory, and you deserved exactly what you got.

Go spend some time in the high country around bears like I do, and you might comprehend what wild life habitat is.

Instead, you are just reacting to emotions and knee-jerk mentality.

Nah it's not that at all, I just don't believe in killing all those wild horses.

(probably never owned a horse, even). Have you even ridden one even?

Wrong again guy, I just road a horse back in July in the Kauai back country, jumped in a water hole too below a waterfall.

Oh and guess what? I Owned a horse as a kid, well he belong to my whole family, his name was Reno.

Don't make reckless assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about, it only makes you look foolish. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: eeyipes
a reply to: tetra50

If they are overpopulated, why not round them up, sterilize the males, and let them loose again to live in peace and freedom?

Because horses are not native to North America, at least not since the Pleistocene. Wild horses may be magnificent and beautiful but they have tremendous appetites and browse much of the vegetation that native species such as antelope and buffaloes need for their survival. In that respect large herds of wild horses are very destructive and crowd out competing species.

I don't necessarily approve of the slaughter or their methods of doing so but there are very good reasons to cull the herd and keep their numbers in check.

Meh, loads of emotions in this thread, I've eaten horse meat, lovely, if they are used as food then no problem.
If they are just burned then that would be a waste.

39 million cows are slaughtered for food in the US every year, are the lives of cattle less worthy because they are more stupid than horses?
How about the 100+ million pigs killed each year, they are pretty clever animals, ah no, horses are somehow special. Lame arguments and absolutely emotionally based as far as I see it.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Wolfenz

I assume you haven't been in Territory's where there's Bear, Wolves, Coyotes , COYWOLVES , Moose? ,

Ummm, I grew up in Wyoming for cripes sakes! What do you think?? I practically lived outdoors with all those animals, and more (you'd need to add antelope, mountain sheep and cougars to your list). No wolves though, wolves at the time were right were they should be today...on the endangered species list. Don't even get me started on the wolf subject! Regarding bears, yeah, I've been around more than a few of those also, working as a fishing guide and outdoor survival instructor on the Kenai and Russian rivers and surrounding areas in south east / central Alaska. I've spent a considerable portion of my entire life outdoors in the wild.

I grew up in Wyoming for cripes sakes! What do you think??

i didnt see that you were living in Wyoming .. my bad

but you did not place the rest of my Sentence of that post

but seeing you were are Surveyor ... did you have that experience.. with them ...? you would have a heyday in my Parts of the Woods .. LOL .. as thats what we have ..

Well just saying

when I saw this

a reply to: SheopleNation

And if you took a care, for just one moment, to truly understand the situation, you likely would have a far different view of the matter. Instead, you are just reacting to emotions and knee-jerk mentality. (probably never owned a horse, even). Have you even ridden one even?

of your response to SheopleNation

posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 16:29 link quote reply This is absolutely disgusting, it's criminal. ~$heopleNation

probably never owned a Horse ..
Have you even ridden one even?


you said you were Terrified.. as him a wild horse alone ...

He jumped up on the hood, broke the windshield, kicked out a back window, stomped out instruments (one by one), stuck his head under the truck, snarling, and generally made a complete disaster of what we were doing! That was his plan. And he paraded around, victorious,...we were terrified.

you need to carry Pots and Pans in your Bronco they hate the nosie!!
hold on the Horn on the Wheel ... but underneath a Bronco ? Lift kit on it ?
must be a good size..

(you'd need to add antelope, mountain sheep and cougars to your list).

NO ... I was referring my Area .. my Territory ..

well we are getting cougars too now ..


as I said

but seeing you were are Surveyor ... did you have that experience.. with them ...? you would have a heyday in my Parts of the Woods .. LOL .. as thats what we have ..

Hate Wolves or love Wolves ?

well lived most of my life outdoors too .. all along the St Lawrence River

Coywolves are become more and more Frequent coming down from Canada..
now brown bears are getting out more , sighting of Cougars ,

Would be nice to see wild horses in Ontario and Quebec
tho..

You get the emotionals crying out evil ,"where oh where are the heroes?"
and that attracts the other emotionals to a public cock measuring contest.
Ah passion!

...then there is the crux of the issue, which doesn't seem to matter too much....

I don't know if I am amused or disappointed by people who likely never set foot on working ranch or farm who think they have anything worth saying about this issue.

originally posted by: Leonidas
I don't know if I am amused or disappointed by people who likely never set foot on working ranch or farm who think they have anything worth saying about this issue.

I think they have good intents... it's like those PETA people.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I've written a lot about managing the population of wild herds, as well. Hopefully, you read those comments, as well.
Management of herds, like other management of wildlife, such as, perhaps Wildlife and fisheries departments do in many states.

I don't object of management, and with no natural predators, numbers absolutely swell to what the environment may not be able to handle, and again, I doubt anyone wants to see that culling occur through natural attrition, which usually means starvation....

But 44,000 is a very large "culling," and I was under the impression that the OP was stating that almost all, if not all, of the herds would be eradicated by the Bureau of Land Management, off the land they "manage."

originally posted by: eeyipes
a reply to: tetra50

If they are overpopulated, why not round them up, sterilize the males, and let them loose again to live in peace and freedom?

If they are over populated, allow people to capture them. Horses aren't cheap, I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to capture them to sell to qualified buyers. That's what I would be doing if allowed.