Is there a Gender Pay Gap issue in the West?

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: crazyewok

Skills Suffer? You don't get alzheimers because you are pregnant.

It depends on the job.

In Pharmaceuticals for exa ple were i work after that long you have to redo the health and saftey procedures, go on documentationand regulation refresher courses and be recertified on certain lab procedures as they can change month to month. That retraining can take up to 3 or 4months.

If they are on £30,000 a year that is £10,000 the company wastes on a retraining period.

So to pay them say 1 or 2 thousand a year less makes buiness sense.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

Go read and decide for yourself.

I did - he didn't say it as far as I can see.
I took it as some simple logic. If a woman leaves the workplace for extended periods of time to have kids then she will not have the same experience as the people (men and women) who have not had time away from the job. Hence that woman is less likely to get promoted or progress her career at the same rate.

It would seem silly to put someone with less experience in a role when looking to develop a business. Of course, if that woman is incredibly talented then it may make sense, as the decision process should be based on skill and experience, but on average it's logical that having career breaks will set a person back compared to their peers.

In jobs that require little skill or experience, then it's less of an issue.

a reply to: crazyewok

That is true of a lot professions i.e. nursing, teaching. I am all for zero birth rate increase, because getting pregnant can be a choice for women in america. Until that type of business model evolves, anyway.

a reply to: UKTruth

I just agreed with Crazywok. We should have zero birth rates. We just can't afford kids and a career.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

I just agreed with Crazywok. We should have zero birth rates. We just can't afford kids and a career.

Thats why Im all for easy access to contraception.

Long as pregancy is kept as a choice.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

Go read and decide for yourself.

I did - he didn't say it as far as I can see.
I took it as some simple logic. If a woman leaves the workplace for extended periods of time to have kids then she will not have the same experience as the people (men and women) who have not had time away from the job. Hence that woman is less likely to get promoted or progress her career at the same rate.

It would seem silly to put someone with less experience in a role when looking to develop a business. Of course, if that woman is incredibly talented then it may make sense, as the decision process should be based on skill and experience, but on average it's logical that having career breaks will set a person back compared to their peers.

In jobs that require little skill or experience, then it's less of an issue.

Thats the thing it will all depend on women to women.

I know some women who have had children who give 110% and work extra hard to make up for there missed time at work.

They get paid more than me and good for them, they sacrificed there personal time and energy.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: crazyewok

That is true of a lot professions i.e. nursing, teaching. I am all for zero birth rate increase, because getting pregnant can be a choice for women in america. Until that type of business model evolves, anyway.

What business model would you like? One where women are treated more favourably than men, getting promotions and pay raises even if they have less experience?

a reply to: UKTruth

Gee, I don't remember saying all that.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

Gee, I don't remember saying all that.

So how would you like it to work? Should a returning mother be paid the same as someone with more experience and skills gained whilst that mother was off work?

a reply to: UKTruth

I am not sure you lose your experience because you leave work for a few months. I am a democrat and of course I want paid family leave. But, I know that under the current climate that is futile. So, women should accept that and choose. Zero birth rate increase would not be a bad thing.

a reply to: MOMof3

You're right, you don't lose experience. However, others might overtake you. It doesn't really matter in a low skilled job, but it matters for skilled work. The workplace is competitive and constantly moves forward. The same applies to those that take career breaks for travel, for example. They lose ground.

My mom was always the breadwinner in the family. So 30 years ago you could be a woman, excel, adance, and make good monies. There's even more opportunity for women today what with all the man-hating, demasculinization in the culture.

I bet this wage gap still exists, but to a lesser degree as the years pass. I see no logical reason why we should strive for parity here, if a man or woman on average is better at a job they should be paid more. There's too many differences between us to reasonably expect a 1:1. It depends perhaps more on the terrain of the future job market than any biases at this point.

a reply to: UKTruth

Yes. I agree that in this competitive job market, any life event will set you back; cancer, pregnancy, aging, Maybe there is more of a benefit in the lower skill jobs, you don't lose anything.

a reply to: MOMof3

My dilemma in all this is the focus on profit.....we are so focused on "getting one up on each other" it becomes a competition ......it really isnt healthy for the majority of people...but who cares as long as we keep the money flowing and the birth rates high

My statement likely will not make sense to many.....C'est la vie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!

It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.

And I think that wrong.

Pay should be merit based.

If a female has spent more time off work sbe should get paid less.

Pay is pretty rarely merit based in the real world.

Do you think there is direct link to time off and ability?

Maybe in your world, but not the actual real world. In the 10 years my mother worked at her last job, you know how many merit raises she got? Two. Laziest worker EVER, that's why only two. Know how much her favorite female coworker got in half that? Five, one a year, and they were decent chunks of change for hourly retail. Said coworker got heftier raises more consistently than the guys did.

Speaking of merit raises, my husband has had four in the last YEAR, and his boss has put forth a request for a fifth one. He's only been at this company for a year and a half, and is closing the gap between him & the highest paid hourly, a woman. He's also been employee of the month (voted on by coworkers in their company) twice. Be a damn good employee, and you'll be recognized & rewarded for it. Straight from the chick co-worker's mouth no less. I really like her attitude. No sh#s given, just effing work well, goddammit.

Don't give me any BS about how merit pay and merit raises don't happen. They do. The problem is, women are generally either very lazy, manipulative clock-milkers, or go for the ultra-safe, much lower-paying jobs to being with. That's called shooting yourself in the foot.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: crazyewok

Pregnant women work less?
I have three children and did an administrative job. I showed up on time ran my store Yeah I was the owner. I did everything I did when I wasn't pregnant caveman.
Thanks for coming.

Congrats, you have a work ethic! The women in my area, especially the young ones, love to use that procreation deal to their advantage. Never seen more women taking extended leaves before, but the northern ones seem to go full steam EARLY on having kids (and a lot of them) versus the deep south. If you're going to use up your sick time for medical appointments, expend all PTO for "Oh, my joints/back/hips/feet hurt!" time off, and then step down to PT hours, don't expect the same wages you used to get. Very, very spoiled & entitled attitude in this state with the preggos. BTDT with pregnancy, it's not a fekking disability like so many play the sympathy card with.

a reply to: Nyiah

Boy, you need to move. All bad women in one place. Aren't there enough men so you could just get rid of women. You probably don't have one of the nasty things in your home huh?

a reply to: UKTruth

what about men who get sick or hurt and end up taking off the same amount of time, are they effected in the same way?

a reply to: Dark Ghost


Not always, Right to work states = anything goes.

I have earned more than my fellow men coworkers inThe past; I'm assuming because I type 100+wpm, so I produced
More work.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: UKTruth

what about men who get sick or hurt and end up taking off the same amount of time, are they effected in the same way?

I would hope so.
If not, and there is some data to show they are not treated in the same way, then you have some clear evidence of bias and a problem that needs to be fixed.

a reply to: dawnstar

Then you are citing individualized anecdotal evidence, not a blanket problem that encompasses all women in the U.S.--dare I say, not even a majority of women in the U.S., if I'm arguing my point that it's not the it's-only-because-I'm-a-woman "logic."

I have a mom who has a job in a hospital where she supervises both the nurses AND the doctors, all while also being a REALTOR and being a licensed real estate broker. My wife own her own transcription business and makes quite a bit of money doing so, but is walking away from that to pursue teaching. Should I be able to use their experiences to negate your claim?

No, I shouldn't, but having done enough research into this topic to satisfy my curiosity into whether or not the gender pay-gap is a true problem based on gender or other variables, I can confidently claim that most women do not have to deal with lower pay ONLY because they are women, and that if they fixed a few of the variables that they can control, the difference would be negligible at best.

I bet that, if you give it another generation of people, the pay gap will swing the other way and I doubt that anyone will bat an eyelash at that "problem."