Putin's Warning / Missile Defense Systems Active

originally posted by: facedye

And generally speaking, what the hell's a US spy plane doing there?

"Diplomatic Reconaissance," I'm sure.

It is flying in international airspace. US recce aircraft have been flying over the Black Sea for decades.

Russia is currently conducting large scale exercises in the Crimea and Black Sea area. It is only to be expected that US and or NATO surveillance aircraft will be monitoring.

a reply to: facedye

Most of Ukraine speaks Russian as their first language.

Really, because I believe you are wrong...

Today Russian speakers make up the second largest language group in Ukraine – though they occupy a relatively small percentage when compared to those who speak Ukrainian.

www.ukraine.com...

The attitude of many Ukrainians, and even those in Crimea, is one that is accepting of returning back to Russian territory.

Really because they were never given the option to stay with Ukraine when they voted in Crimea...and how about the Tartars do they feel that way?

And many Ukrainians is how many?

Crimea and Ukraine are Russia's backyard, and up until a few decades ago were a part of Russia itself.

Actually Ukraine was not part of Russia until the 18th century...

Its territory was carved up by competing powers, who prized the fertile plains and rich, dark soil that later earned Ukraine the nickname "the breadbasket of Europe." Catholic Poland and Lithuania dominated the country for hundreds of years, but by the end of the 18th century Imperial Russia had grabbed most of Ukraine, except for Galicia, which was controlled by the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

theweek.com...

Given the timing and current events of this situation, I can't figure out how you believe his prerogative to control Crimea is not connected to his prerogative to protect his own country.

Protection from who exactly?

Not to be too crass, but what use is there to take back control of Crimea, then?

WHo for Ukraine, or Putin?

Ukraine because it was illegally annexed.

Putin because he wants to get what he thinks is Russia's when it hasn't been since 1991.

What in your opinion is the foremost reason for his secrecy and manipulative nature with which he took back an area of land he'd never want Americans to infiltrate?

What are you talking about?

Him taking Crimea had nothing to do with the US infiltrating anything...he took it on a lie, as shown already.

a reply to: JAY1980

Thanks Jay, kinda strange that this wouldn't pop up in my search engine here. I've actually tried searching for it several times, figured this was too important for ATS to not discuss.

With that being said, my perspective on this thread is focused more on his geopolitical strategies given his explanation of our current missile defense systems.

I totally agree with you, it's downright strange that the MSM hasn't mentioned this yet, let alone made a big deal out of it.

Personally, and feel free to call me paranoid, but I think it's because the MSM here is "delaying the inevitable by maintaining public peace." In other words, they won't bring it to the forefront of our national discussion because they (or those that bark orders at them) know something worse will happen soon.

No need fan the flame when the gasoline is right behind you.

a reply to: facedye

yeah I posted something about this 1.5 mths ago. Most people are too self absorbed to get it.

Well if it happens, I can only hope it's either quick, or that i'm with those I love most when it happens and then POOF ... off to the Fifth Dimension I go!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And what, precisely, did he take it for?

I was born in Ukraine, and lived there for years before coming to the States. Everyone there speaks Russian. Sorry if that doesn't jive with information you found on "Ukraine.com"

Why refer to the 18th Century? Ukraine and Crimea were a part of the USSR. This is a fact.

"Putin because he wants to get what he thinks is Russia's when it hasn't been since 1991."

So you're saying he only wants to take control of his love for the idea that Crimea should be Russia's territory? He simply just wants it for his own personal reasons?

"What are you talking about?

Him taking Crimea had nothing to do with the US infiltrating anything...he took it on a lie, as shown already."

And why did he lie?

You're ready to commit to the statement that Crimea's annexation has absolutely nothing to do with protecting Russia and its neighbors from foreign (U.S. included) influence?

a reply to: tommyjo

So when the U.S. conducts large scale military exercises in and around the States, would we ever tolerate a Russian spy plane flying in our general airspace?

a reply to: JAY1980

This whole subject is getting minimal attention here and in the MSM. You'd think WWIII looming would get peoples attention.

Prior to WWII nations sat on their haunches as another empire gobbled up Europe. Even the Russians sat back and let Hitler come.

C'mon Hilter, Cmon! A little further, thats right.

a reply to: facedye

The more I've looked at Putin and how he reacts the more I think he doesn't want conflict.

Putin knows Russia doesn't stand a chance in the ring with the US and it's allies, nor does it have a chance in an arms race. He has been pretty public on his stance regarding missiles and an arms race, Russia cannot afford such endeavours and he has stated if push comes to shove Moscow will use nukes if it's sovereignty was at threat.

One could say the US could have justification for a first-strike if Russia felt it's own situation was in dire trouble. Missiles? The West can claim all it likes that it's missile defence R & D is to protect against possible rogue threats just like Russia can claim it's reasons for developing MIRV technology. At the end of the day though everyone knows who the potential enemy is on either side.

That first-strike window is probably always getting smaller and even if it ever got the go-ahead I dare say a few EMPs would go off and ruin everybody's day... For some reason I just lost my train of thought, something about UFO's.

I wonder if all those fancy vehicles Zaphod never really talks about would still operate if Russia went full-blown retard and went EMP crazy? I can't help but think somewhere amongst the smoke and mirrors Russia still has a very good hand to play and the West isn't going to get the justification to wipe Moscow out. It's a wonder why so many are worried, much more to this than meets the eye and I can't even scratch the surface.

Russia is far from strong in the grand scheme of things but it has heavy numbers in the right fields and it's learning fast about the logistical nightmare that is modern warfare. We probably are closer than we've ever been to potential nuclear war... It's all about that knock-out punch if it were to happen.

As I said a lot more to it than the simplicity of conflict. Culture, resources, economics and land play a huge role too and I dare say Russia is the one with it's back against the wall and the room is pitch black, though you don't need to see with a dead-mans switch. As things stand though Russia would collapse under it's own weight given enough time and sanctions but I know that isn't good for Europe, we need resources now not in 25 years time.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: JAY1980

This whole subject is getting minimal attention here and in the MSM. You'd think WWIII looming would get peoples attention.

Prior to WWII nations sat on their haunches as another empire gobbled up Europe. Even the Russians sat back and let Hitler come.

C'mon Hilter, Cmon! A little further, thats right.

Let's not forget the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, Russia was pretty hungry too. I always figured the supplies and technical advice given by the allies had more to do with Russia kicking ass than the famed Russian retreat.

originally posted by: facedye
a reply to: tommyjo

So when the U.S. conducts large scale military exercises in and around the States, would we ever tolerate a Russian spy plane flying in our general airspace?

If no sovereign airspace is being violated then yes, it's tolerated. I imagine Alaska is always being tested in terms of military response. You'll have difficulty finding a capable air-force that doesn't use such tactics or navy for that matter.

The key is the drone was never in Russian airspace.

originally posted by: RAY1990

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: JAY1980

This whole subject is getting minimal attention here and in the MSM. You'd think WWIII looming would get peoples attention.

Prior to WWII nations sat on their haunches as another empire gobbled up Europe. Even the Russians sat back and let Hitler come.

C'mon Hilter, Cmon! A little further, thats right.

Let's not forget the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, Russia was pretty hungry too. I always figured the supplies and technical advice given by the allies had more to do with Russia kicking ass than the famed Russian retreat.

Pretty sure that was 'defensive posturing' on Russias part. Stalin agreed to half of Poland to provide more of a buffer to Hitlers armies.

I know what the official line says. The commies are as evil as the Nazis. Stalin saw the build ups on his border the same way Putin is seeing that same build up today.

What is it with the West? Every hundred years or so they go crazy and attack Russia.

a reply to: intrptr

Running out of excuses to keep the massive war machine rolling. We're experts on provoking our future enemies.

a reply to: RAY1990

They do play around with an arms race though. Most recently is they are the first to test a pulse explosion rocket engine. Not sure on this but technology of that nature may drive missiles that cannot be shot down. That would reverse alot of global US posturing of "defensive" missile deployment.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: intrptr

Running out of excuses to keep the massive war machine rolling. We're experts on provoking our future enemies.

Keep poking the Bear with a stick...

originally posted by: facedye
a reply to: tommyjo

So when the U.S. conducts large scale military exercises in and around the States, would we ever tolerate a Russian spy plane flying in our general airspace?

Yes as long as the aircraft doesn't violate sovereign national airspace. There is nothing remarkable about such flights or the monitoring of military exercises. For intelligence collection against the US the Russians like to use Russian Navy intelligence collection vessels. As long as the ships don't encroach on the territorial limit off the coast then they can monitor all they want from international waters.

During late 2012 one of the Russian Navy intelligence collection vessels got caught out by weather and the US allowed it to seek shelter in a US port in Florida.

Meanwhile, the officials also said that a Russian electronic intelligence-gathering vessel was granted safe harbor in the commercial port of Jacksonville, Fla., within listening range of Kings Bay. The Russian AGI ship, or Auxiliary-General Intelligence, was allowed to stay in the port to avoid the superstorm that battered the U.S. East Coast last week. A Jacksonville Port Authority spokeswoman had no immediate comment on the Russian AGI at the port.

freebeacon.com...

A Russian Navy intelligence collection vessel was back in the region during 2015.

freebeacon.com...

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: facedye

It would appear accurate to say that Putin invaded not out of a thirst for land, but to squash any potential uprising, and put an end to anything that can compromise the region's security & integrity.

Except the fact that Putin admitted to making plans to take Crimea a month before there were uprisings in Crimea...and you may want to look at what Igor Strelkov...aka Igor Girkin had to say about Crimea as he was there from the beginning.

Russian president Vladimir Putin revealed that he secretly planned the annexation of Crimea months before the country's disputed independence referendum. Putin says that he ordered work on "returning Crimea to Russia" at an all night meeting, days before masked gunmen appeared in the peninsula in February 2014.

www.ibtimes.co.uk...#

He used the problem in Ukraine as a way to hide what he already had planned...sorry he was doing it for the land and saw the time to put that plan in action.

As for Mr. Strelkov...

Guess the truth is really out there it just isn't coming from Vladimir Putin.

You seem to be very fixed and focused on the fact that Putin has admitted to planning the operation, you use the fact to justify your opinion that Crimea was a land grab, and ignoring the rest of the picture.

Really, it seems like you have ran out of arguments, but still want to be right.

Does it not occur to you that there are reasons for Putin planning the operation? Reasons big enough to outweigh the imposed sanction and international turmoil? For example national security *hint hint wink wink*? For example evidence that US were pulling political strings to end Russias presense on Russias only major black sea military port, as well as permanent bases to house US troops in Crimea?

Do the research...

Honestly, having strong, blunt opinions with no knowledge is ignorance and stupidity in its highest form. You are a grown man, rise above it.

a reply to: intrptr

What is it with the West? Every hundred years or so they go crazy and attack Russia.

You'd think they'd learn after all the bloodied noses that's occurred... Maybe if you nuked the Urals first...

Russian blood has anti-freeze in it, I don't envy their weather but it sure has served it's purpose over time.

So, speaking with regards to geopolitics, the picture becomes more clear. More specifically, I believe Putin wants control of Crimea to prevent a US proxy invasion by any means necessary. Based on the map, and Crimea's relative distance to Turkey and the middle east (where we now have and have been having *ample* ongoing military operations, both covert and otherwise), it's clear to see how Russia can be compromised by the positioning of US troops in the region.

The Prophecy of the Vilna Gaon: “When you hear that the Russians have captured the city of Crimea, the ‘Times of the Messiah’ have started, that his steps are being heard”

cosmicconvergence.org...-15517

America must fall from her position as the world's Superpower and this power be transferred to Antichrist as coming leader of the Revived Roman Empire (Dan 7:24,25). The 50th year (Jubilee) ends in 2016.

areyouready.co.za...

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Russia must think outside of the box though, it literally spends cents to the US dollar in terms of military R & D.

Russian military had a huge loss of time too once communism was gone, in terms of war we have never seen the capability of the US army since Vietnam and quite frankly I cannot see any way Russia could begin to catch up with the US Navy or Air Force.

They'll keep building weapons that are hard to counter and are cost effective, they have no choice. The US however make a fortune selling "old" tech that is cutting edge for everyone else and I literally can't fathom the stuff nobody knows about that they don't admit to never mind sell.

If anything such missiles and tech would force the US to "reveal" something that'll make Russia go "ahh crap" and if we are lucky bits of said tech will trickle down into the civilian arena.

If it came to the crunch Russia would have to go all in or go home, it stands no chance in prolonged warfare. Hence their feeling of necessity on guarantying delivery of say a nuclear warhead.

a reply to: RAY1990

It is good for balance, the was the point of the UN. But we are exempt from their decisions Haha.