Donald Trump Rally in Phoenix, AZ (08/31/2016) Immigration Speech after Mexico Visit

a reply to: Gryphon66

How is softer talk a shift in policy or point? It isn't. We disagree.

By the way, two of your links are exactly the same article but made to look like two different sources, but I'm sure you've read them. Never mind, I was wrong, and admit my mistake. Apologies.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

How is softer talk a shift in policy or point? It isn't. We disagree.

By the way, two of your links are exactly the same article but made to look like two different sources, but I'm sure you've read them.

"Softer talk" when one has been as ludicrously extreme hardline in their irrationality has Trump has been isn't a shift?

Okay. As I said, for some, words don't seem to have any standard meaning.

The sources offered are not the same articles. (No victim, no crime.)

Three "low hanging fruit" sources from all along the partisan scale, each of which demonstrates clearly various reactions to what was seen as a "shift" from Mr. Trump who has now "shifted" back to his original nonsense.

We do disagree on the obvious. Let's leave it there and let others have a turn, eh?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

How is softer talk a shift in policy or point? It isn't. We disagree.

By the way, two of your links are exactly the same article but made to look like two different sources, but I'm sure you've read them.

"Softer talk" when one has been as ludicrously extreme hardline in their irrationality has Trump has been isn't a shift?

Okay. As I said, for some, words don't seem to have any standard meaning.

The sources offered are not the same articles. Three "low hanging fruit" sources from all along the partisan scale, each of which demonstrates clearly various reactions to what was seen as a "shift" from Mr. Trump who has now "shifted" back to his original nonsense.

We do disagree on the obvious. Let's leave it there and let others have a turn, eh?

A shift in tone is not a shift in policy nor point. This is obvious. We do disagree.

I was wrong about the sources. I cannot access neither WSJ articles, and assumed wrongly. Either way, that's no excuse. Apologies.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A "shift in tone" ? Yeah, that's what you keep repeating. What he said last week was more than a "shift" just ask Ann Coulter.

Trump has been variously hardline (11 million illegals would be deported) and then shifting away from that (as he told the New York Times in February "everything's negotiable").

Nevermind that what he proposes as "hard line Trump" is completely irrational, unworkable, etc. ... he himself knows (as his followers don't seem to be able to grasp) that the extremist position he takes on the stump is ridiculous.

a reply to: Gryphon66

None of his policies have changed. Yes, he spoke about it more softly for the sake of the pearl-clutchers among us. Even Ann Coulter doesn't think the policies have changed.

I like Trump's flexibility. Anything else is dogma. Information and details change and it would be stupid not to adapt to them, just as it would be stupid to not put on a softer tone for the over-worried. Still, no policy change.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

None of his policies have changed. Yes, he spoke about it more softly for the sake of the pearl-clutchers among us. Even Ann Coulter doesn't think the policies have changed.

I like Trump's flexibility. Anything else is dogma. Information and details change and it would be stupid not to adapt to them, just as it would be stupid to not put on a softer tone for the over-worried. Still, no policy change.

You're a true believer, LesMis. There's really nothing else to discuss.

His policy was unmitigated: illegals would be deported. Then, some illegals might be given a path to citizenship. Now, they'll be deported again.

"Flexibility" is another word for wishy-washy floundering.

When the "policy" is absolute any "softening" is by definition a shift.

You're belaboring the obvious.

Here is an AP Fact-checking video (2~mins). I would post some of the comments but they're too rude!!!

Anyway, there appears to be some checking underway of the constitutionality of some of his proposals vis-a-vis deportation specifics

originally posted by: Konduit
Trump is a machine. Milwaukee, Louisiana, Detroit and now making diplomatic trips to Mexico in the morning and holding rallies in the US at night.

Presidential as #, while Hillary can't even crawl out of bed to do a 10 minute speech before she short-circuits.

ever heard of the rabbit vs the hare? trump is going to burn himself out hard, just wait til it all catches up to him and he breaks down and implodes.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
Here is an AP Fact-checking video (2~mins). I would post some of the comments but they're too rude!!!

Anyway, there appears to be some checking underway of the constitutionality of some of his proposals vis-a-vis deportation specifics

Foreign nationals who enter the U.S. illegally and then remain do not have fully protected rights under the Constitution. For example they don't have the right to vote. The constitution is a document that protects amarican citizens. It no more applies to forign nationals then Frances constitution applies to amarican citizens. The only legality that he would have is what to do with property they have and and what to do with it does the federal govt have to reimburse them? If they broke the law I'd say probably not since most countries see that as a reason to deport an individual. I had a work visa for germany for a year any violation of a law would have sent me packing.

a reply to: Olivine

I feel like he tossed the Presidency to the wind tonight, knowingly. He sure rallied his base though, that's for sure.

Today, Trump's super ego went to Mexico, and Trump's id went to Phoenix.

twitter.com...

That comment I felt was rather poignant and insightful, and amusing.

It was like as soon as his plane landed, he did a switcheroo. The Mexican President must have been rather embarrassed the moment that the Spanish translation of Trump's Phoenix speech came across on Univision.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Olivine

I feel like he tossed the Presidency to the wind tonight, knowingly. He sure rallied his base though, that's for sure.

Today, Trump's super ego went to Mexico, and Trump's id went to Phoenix.

twitter.com...

That comments I felt was rather poignant and insightful, and amusing.

It was like as soon as his plane landed, he did a switcheroo. The Mexican President must have been rather embarrassed the moment that the Spanish translation of Trump's Phoenix speech came across on Univision.

I have the same feeling I think this could hurt him alot but who knows I think most amaRicans want tighter borders that's why hillary said she would tighten them as well.

a reply to: dragonridr

Obama kicked the can on this issue down the road, for some strange reason, but at one time there was bipartisan support for comprehensive immigration reform that would include a path to citizenship for the 11 million undocumented aliens, because the vast majority of them are productive and contributing members of society who've come to know their life in the US as well their life.

Trump appears to be hoping for an incident to take place that will affirm his policy position. He may be hoping that CIA black bag black op psyops killers who are white and friendly to him might go out of their way to hatch another "op" to raise him to the Presidency with all his police state-like blustering.

That's the only context in which he speech made any real sense as a campaign platform to try to win this election.. imho.

That or as a lock in on that base for his future media empire.

What is was not was a speech and policy position crafted to take him to the White House.

a reply to: Gryphon66

If Trump is wishy-washy, what does that make Hitlery?

The president of Mexico said the meeting went very well, seems like we already know Trump is the one to be president. Hillary's too busy murdering witnesses and covering up her lies and treason.

It's amazing to me what Trump's opponents and critics get outraged about, yet when it comes to Hillary much more egregious actions and an actual history of bad policy doesn't seem to mean anything to them.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: Gryphon66

If Trump is wishy-washy, what does that make Hitlery?

The president of Mexico said the meeting went very well, seems like we already know Trump is the one to be president. Hillary's too busy murdering witnesses and covering up her lies and treason.

Thanks for providing a prime example of reality denial:

1. Can't resist a "I know you are but what am I" transposition of Trump and Clinton, regardless of the topic.

2. The President of Mexico said that they aren't paying for the wall. Period

3. Nieto made Trump look like a fool. I'm sure the meeting did go well from his perspective.

4. And of course, the required reference to supposed assassination.

/shrug I don't think I've ever seen it done so succinctly though! Bravo

a reply to: Gryphon66

His policy was unmitigated: illegals would be deported. Then, some illegals might be given a path to citizenship. Now, they'll be deported again.

Trump has mentioned nothing about giving some illegals a path to citizenship. Once again, maybe his tone has softened, not his policies.

I could be wrong, but you're going to have to provide me with a quote where Trump has said anything of what you claim. Toss in Ann Coulter while you're at it.

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!!!

a reply to: Gryphon66

The Mexican president already stated America has every right to build a wall.

Mexico will pay for the wall, through heavy import taxes on those all those maquiladoras, which were only made possible due to clinton NAFTA.

He could easily make them pay.

1. Cut off all the welfare checks going to PO boxes along the border.

2. Use drug money seized from the cartels

3. Tarrif the # out of goods coming from Mexico

4. Stop day workers from crossing border

5. Provide hefty tax on all money wired from the us to Mexico

He holds all of the leverage Mexico does not. In negotiations that's the number one thing. Mexico can growl and show their teeth all they want. If he's president they'll sing a different tune

a reply to: Gryphon66

Trump never said he would give out amnesty, he just said he would soften his tone. People like Ann Coulter said that if he ended out giving amnesty she would not forgive him. His campaign repeatedly said, wait until the speech Wednesday night and you will see our detailed position. He then came out and did not offer amnesty, but said in his speech that it is important to treat everyone with compassion (which he would consider a softening of his tone), but that there would be no amnesty.

You keep bringing up Ann Coulter, I am sure you will be shocked if you look at her Twitter page where she says there was no pivot, and this was the best speech ever given (not that I agree with that).

I would like your source where he ever said some illegals would be given a path to citizenship. I heard him say the exact opposite, that he would soften his tone but there would be no citizenship, and heard Trumps people say that all week leading up to this speech. I would like to see you source that says this. Until you can provide that, I feel like you are being dishonest.