SETI and the Big question

There are approximately 300,000,000,000 Stars in our Milky-way Galaxy alone....

There are approximately 100,000,000,000 Galaxies in the observable Universe.

Only 1 planet (Earth) with intelligent life on it...?


I'm sorry, but the numbers are drastically and literally astronomically in favor of other Alien races not only existing but also and in addition to, they may be hundreds, thousands or even Millions of years ahead of us in Technology and the Sciences. If so, They, then by comparison whatever we can presently imagine, contemplate and theorize about how to traverse the great distances between Star systems, they could have theoretically already solved, proven and developed and therefore, in my humble opinion, could have already been visiting the Earth for some time.

That's just what 'We' could imagine, theorize, ponder. Given the amount of time they may have already been at this they could be utilizing technology, sciences, understanding and perceptions we haven't even begun to ponder or conceptualize.

Never mind trying to understand those concepts and application.

The real question for me isn't whether there is other intelligent life out there but rather are we really looking for the correct types of proof? We seem to go on the assumption that they will leave signs we would easily detect. I think that's a pretty lazy angle personally. How would an Ant on some dense tangled Jungle floor detect a submerged Nuclear submarine a thousand miles away?

The sub exists and functions in a medium completely removed and Alien from that Ants concept of reality and outside of it's experiences. Granted we are more sophisticated than the Ant and we have active imagination to mentally conceptualize how an Alien race may not only exist but also what would be obvious signs of their civilization. But still. The Ant/Submarine argument, in my mind, is still rather chilling.

Personally, I wish more scientifically oriented minds would stop being so negative about whether ET could have been visiting all based on our limited understanding and present limitations to traverse those great distances in our lifetimes. They, if they exist could be functioning at a level far beyond the Submerged Nuclear Submarines abilities and we, the 'Ant' are just beginning our search and understanding of not only just how vast the Universe really is but to all the potential of habitable worlds, Civilizations, Dimension, and even alternative Realities.


We, The Ant, haven't really even gotten off the beach. By comparison, We have only launched a few small tiny extremely slow moving wooden rafts and have so far even with our "Sophisticated" apparatuses just begin to view the horizon of the vast Galactic ocean ahead of us, never mind what might exist submerged in other "Realms" out there.



So, for now, This is how we do it....

Protocols for an ETI Signal Detection

Concerning Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence

We, the institutions and individuals participating in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence,

Recognizing that the search for extraterrestrial intelligence is an integral part of space exploration and is being undertaken for peaceful purposes and for the common interest of all mankind,

Inspired by the profound significance for mankind of detecting evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, even though the probability of detection may be low,

Recalling the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, which commits States Parties to that Treaty "to inform the Secretary General of the United Nations as well as the public and the international scientific community, to the greatest extent feasible and practicable, of the nature, conduct, locations and results" of their space exploration activities (Article XI),

Recognizing that any initial detection may be incomplete or ambiguous and thus require careful examination as well as confirmation, and that it is essential to maintain the highest standards of scientific responsibility and credibility,

Agree to observe the following principles for disseminating information about the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence:

a reply to: SLAYER69

What you forget with these astronomical numbers is, that Earth has a few pretty unique circumstances, which allowed her to host life.
The right distance to the sun.
Our bodyguards like Jupiter etc
The moon giving us seasons
The electro magnetic field creating our atmosphere
Still the right asteroids and comets making their way through crashing to accumulate the right amount of the proper elements

So you can definitely scratch a few thousand zeros from that number.

But I am still hoping too that maybe one day... just find it extremely unlikely. Earth is a miracle, if you take all of the above into account. We indeed did win a lottery. 1:300,000,000,000

a reply to: Peeple

True but

That's life as we know and understand it. Given those numbers.."Life" could take on any multitude of forms. Not just as we know it here on Earth.

The Percentage of likely locations jumps back up in my book.

a reply to: Peeple

Not necessarily, we are always find new forms of life on Earth living in environments that we previously didn't believe could support life as we know it. Called extremophiles.

These discoveries are what has lead us to believe there is a good chance at find forms of life on Jupiter's and Saturn's moons.

a reply to: SLAYER69

This vaguely follows a article in"Astronomy" a good few years ago now around the time exo planets where just being discovered, where they had discussed the idea that even if we observed another civilization what are the chances we even know what we are looking at?.. There will not be a big neon sign although anything is possible I guess..

I also vaguely remember reading that if extraterrestrial life was discovered that there was a law in place that states the Vatican (Catholic church) had to be notified before it was made public??.. It was worded something like (something)Blasphemy law, and I read a very good argument that may lead to non disclosure if the church ordered it..

I am sure that someone on here would know what I am talking about?? but I am going back must be 15 years...


RA

a reply to: watchitburn

&
a reply to: SLAYER69

Sure. Non-organic life forms maybe. Plasma beings, what have you. But I don't know that would be so strange people would largely deny they are life forms at all.

Just as nobody ever even bothered to verify or disprove Dr.Santilli. They might be here right now

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: SLAYER69

What you forget with these astronomical numbers is, that Earth has a few pretty unique circumstances, which allowed her to host life.
The right distance to the sun.
Our bodyguards like Jupiter etc
The moon giving us seasons
The electro magnetic field creating our atmosphere
Still the right asteroids and comets making their way through crashing to accumulate the right amount of the proper elements

So you can definitely scratch a few thousand zeros from that number.

But I am still hoping too that maybe one day... just find it extremely unlikely. Earth is a miracle, if you take all of the above into account. We indeed did win a lottery. 1:300,000,000,000

you forgot about the water

a reply to: Dr UAE

Well no, that's part of the asteroids and comets elements. Besides water is pretty much everywhere. Mars is also loads of frozen water with a dust and rock crust.
NASA

It cracks me up when people always assume that aliens are going to be 6 foot tall blond haird blue eyed benevolent carbon beings .

Earth is a tiny tiny grain of sand in a vast desert , life might have started on a planet where the beings are 100 foot tall or 1 inch tall and mankind has only been searching for less than a century for any signals in the water margin .

Yet our blood contains vast volumes of information still untapped by science , but for intelligent life just look in Earths
ocean and the Dolphin bigger brain than humans and a vocal range that makes humans look mute .

The aliens must laugh when they see *our* "parameters" for what constitutes the possibility of life on a planet. Apparently they all need to be 6 ft tall, and live on a planet of 72 degrees and breath oxygen.

a reply to: bknapple32

Science recognises that "Life" has many ways of being
You only have to observe the life on Earth and the conditions required for it's diversity

a reply to: SLAYER69
You are familiar with the newly revised Drake's equation , yes ? The ones that were refined to include many more occurrences . Using this new equation , life is almost impossible . We may very well be alone

a reply to: SLAYER69


A nice discussion, Slayer, for the uninitiated, but that is not the real issue. Yes, they are out there. Yes, they are here (that only the unwilling can deny). Let us entirely forget the fantastic technology of UFOs, space travel and a better understanding of EVERYTHING that the ETs know. There still remains the primary question that is most important to humanity. What does that mean for us, today, and in the long run?

For a clue to that all any intelligent person needs to do is to follow world events on all levels and it becomes apparent that a thousand forces are at work to change this rabid planet into an Eden that has rarely been visualized outside of science-fiction works such as Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood End." The ETs have changed the world already by making themselves the prime mythological story of the day. Under the guise of that cover it can be seen how they have infiltrated our many institutions to bring about an organized transformation to humankind. They don't control us, but they guide us on good authority. Basically, they have "...Made us an offer that we can't refuse." And it was about time. And the ONLY way human could come to grips with the reality of the ETs by learning just how deficient it was in its own schooling.

The heavy weights on the world stage are playing games with us, themselves and others, vying for what amount of control that they can gain in the transformational process. So, currently the main emphasis is on the physical, no world wars for over half a century, international trade (globalization), etc.. But we are getting heavily into the next step, the reformation of what it means to be human, away from the physical aspect of differences in humans toward a more non-physical approach as advanced by--if by nothing else--than Political Correct carried to the extreme. There is where Eden lies. However, few will willing advance their under their own power.

a reply to: SLAYER69

yes indeed! WE would call it life as we don't know it, and I suspect its all over the universe.

a reply to: data5091

I thought some here would appreciate the discussion.

Well, since I think/believe the great "War in the Heavens" - - was a real war between off-planet beings - - over who has control of earth.

I'm there. They're here and have been for a long time.

I think/believe Politics is universal.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
The real question for me isn't whether there is other intelligent life out there but rather are we really looking for the correct types of proof?

Unfortunately, our intelligence is quite limited, and for the most part we and our machines can detect certain levels of activity within the EM spectrum. But if there are other energy spectra out there, such as psychic energy, or things that exist on higher levels of reality, then we're going to be hard pressed to find them. If aliens have built expressways between stars out of quasi-real tubes of psychic energy, maybe they'd light up the night sky with sparkling webs, if we could see them.

Only being human, it's pretty hard for us to imagine what kind of protocols an alien race might use to spread through the universe, and what kind of evidence that might leave behind in any particular solar system or on a specific planet like Earth. What would their ultimate goal be? Knowledge? How much knowledge does anyone (anything) need?

As humans, what we do is look for patterns in things. Or irregular things that stick out from a regular pattern. We look for structures among chaos, where there shouldn't be any. We look for movement when everything should be still. And vice-versa. We look for anomalies. But that doesn't help us if the aliens are using some kind of technology or aspect reality that we can't detect.

The remote viewers say aliens exist on a different level of consciousness and reality. I don't know how we can "actualize" that to bring it into our own level of understanding.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Well I'm just thinking about how we just figured out that gravity is a wave.

That for me changes a great many things we should be looking for with regards to an extremely advanced race.

Folding space etc.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
That's life as we know and understand it. Given those numbers.."Life" could take on any multitude of forms. Not just as we know it here on Earth.

Yeah, but for the most part we're only interested in beings that are like us. We want to compare notes on the nature of reality and existence, and maybe ask them what their opinion is of certain concepts like "God," and "death." Except for a few academic types, we generally want to find Star Trek type aliens. We don't have a lot of use for alien cloud brains or interstellar sentient crystals. If the best we can find that represents other "life" in the universe is something that fulfills the basic requirements of eating, pooping, reproducing and sensing their environment in some way, then most of humanity is going to be pretty disappointed.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: Blue Shift
Well I'm just thinking about how we just figured out that gravity is a wave.
That for me changes a great many things we should be looking for with regards to an extremely advanced race.
Folding space etc.

It's still a little hard for us to detect obviously manufactured ripples in gravity or time or collective consciousness. But certainly, looking for effects we can detect that might imply the action of some intelligenty-directed force that we can't detect or don't have a paradigm for, is where we're going to have to start.