EU demands Apple pay Ireland up to 13 billion euros in tax

EU antitrust regulators ordered Apple on Tuesday to pay up to 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in taxes plus interest to the Irish government after ruling that a special scheme to route profits through Ireland was illegal state aid.

The European Commission in 2014 accused Ireland of dodging international tax rules by letting Apple shelter profits worth tens of billions of dollars from tax collectors in return for maintaining jobs. Apple and Ireland rejected the accusation.

EU demands Apple pay Ireland up to 13 billion euros in tax

This is unsurprising. Apple, as well as Google, Amazon, Facebook, Starbucks and a whole host of so called "global" companies have been avoiding paying tax where they are doing business. However, I cannot help feeling that the EU is making a pig's ear of this one.

Firstly, Ireland does not want the tax revenues and are clearly content to host a big employer. Ireland are an unwilling participant in this. The EU should have sought to split the tax revenues to the constituent nations in the EU disadvantaged by the tax avoidance regimes in play.

Secondly, the fact is that Apple will appeal and drag this whole thing on for years and in so doing demonstrate their ability to frustrate and confound.

Thirdly, the nation state should be allowed to manage their tax affairs, including arrangements for corporations to pay no tax. However, earnings in other states should be taxable within those states.

Personally, I am keen to see these mega-corporations pay taxes where they do business. I would like their ability to avoid tax curtailed and the rules set by sovereign nations. Tax is after all still within the jurisdiction of member states, at the moment at least, although this ruling questions that assumption. That is the fair way to approach this, and nations within the EU should resolve this individually, rather than the EU acting as the authority.

I also wonder what will happen with BREXIT. The UK will be released from the EU shackles and in consequence may be more successful in getting appropriate tax recompense, rather than having to cow-tow to a set of EU processes that don't seem to work for the member state.

EU Press Release
The Guardian
The Express
Politico

a reply to: paraphi

Apple and Ireland rejected the accusation.

Whoops, caught with their hand in the Apple Jar.

Picked the forbidden fruit from the tree of greed.

Tar and feather them or the European favorite, put them in stocks and throw rotten apples at them.

a reply to: paraphi

This is a well-written thread with good info. Your personal editorial was also of value - I bet you would be a fantastic addition to the policymakers, you seem to really understand the implications of this situation and know a lot about how the corporate-public agreements can hurt or benefit the host country. Thanks for sharing this OP, S & F

originally posted by: paraphi

EU antitrust regulators ordered Apple on Tuesday to pay up to 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in taxes plus interest to the Irish government after ruling that a special scheme to route profits through Ireland was illegal state aid.

The European Commission in 2014 accused Ireland of dodging international tax rules by letting Apple shelter profits worth tens of billions of dollars from tax collectors in return for maintaining jobs. Apple and Ireland rejected the accusation.

EU demands Apple pay Ireland up to 13 billion euros in tax

This is unsurprising. Apple, as well as Google, Amazon, Facebook, Starbucks and a whole host of so called "global" companies have been avoiding paying tax where they are doing business. However, I cannot help feeling that the EU is making a pig's ear of this one.

Firstly, Ireland does not want the tax revenues and are clearly content to host a big employer. Ireland are an unwilling participant in this. The EU should have sought to split the tax revenues to the constituent nations in the EU disadvantaged by the tax avoidance regimes in play.

Secondly, the fact is that Apple will appeal and drag this whole thing on for years and in so doing demonstrate their ability to frustrate and confound.

Thirdly, the nation state should be allowed to manage their tax affairs, including arrangements for corporations to pay no tax. However, earnings in other states should be taxable within those states.

Personally, I am keen to see these mega-corporations pay taxes where they do business. I would like their ability to avoid tax curtailed and the rules set by sovereign nations. Tax is after all still within the jurisdiction of member states, at the moment at least, although this ruling questions that assumption. That is the fair way to approach this, and nations within the EU should resolve this individually, rather than the EU acting as the authority.

I also wonder what will happen with BREXIT. The UK will be released from the EU shackles and in consequence may be more successful in getting appropriate tax recompense, rather than having to cow-tow to a set of EU processes that don't seem to work for the member state.

EU Press Release
The Guardian
The Express
Politico

Signed RONALD MCDONALD

Being from Irish descent and having family work for apple Ireland I've been aware if global corporations setting up in Ireland..
The first thing I want to state is that this creates a wealth of employment for a country that has historically struggled with for a very long time.. Irish people have had to leave ireland for work for many generations.
It creates more income in other ways too, with infrastructure and small business opportunities to accommodate these corporations.

If the eu piss these people off than they will find somewhere else to set up.. No problem at all, most countries would welcome them with open arms..
This is a hood example of why brexit was a good thing.. Why have these assholes in Brussels dictate the rules.. And all the time it is the working class people that suffer..

They are desperately looking for a way to fill in that 20bn a year brexit gap the EU has already resorted to threatening spain and Portugal for not paying enough it is nothing but a union of corruption with people nobody voted in charge.

originally posted by: mx44z
They are desperately looking for a way to fill in that 20bn a year brevet gap the EU has already resorted to threatening spain and Portugal for not paying enough it is nothing but a union of corruption with people nobody voted in charge.

Brexit? Whats that?

The only reason I can see the E.U. is demanding Apple pay them, is so they can get their cut of it. If it's up to the individual members of the EU on taxes, that's the only motivation they would have.

Quite simply, they don't owe the taxes. The EU has no real authority in this case. Apple is in a contract with Ireland not the EU and they are not in breach of it. So unless Ireland wishes to file charges, this is just a socialist talking point for the EU while trying to make an example of Apple.
Meanwhile Ireland is happy to host Apple and the many jobs and business it brings to their country because Americans are too stupid to lower the business taxes to a reasonable amount.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
Quite simply, they don't owe the taxes. The EU has no real authority in this case. Apple is in a contract with Ireland not the EU and they are not in breach of it. So unless Ireland wishes to file charges, this is just a socialist talking point for the EU while trying to make an example of Apple.
Meanwhile Ireland is happy to host Apple and the many jobs and business it brings to their country because Americans are too stupid to lower the business taxes to a reasonable amount.

Only Ireland is part of the EU and agrees to follow EU rules on tax. (Rules both Ireland and Apple would be very well aware of). So the EU does have authority in this case and, barring a successful appeal, Apple does owe the taxes.

a reply to: intrptr

it is the U.K leaving the EU once it is finalized they will be 20bn a year worse off.

originally posted by: mx44z
a reply to: intrptr

it is the U.K leaving the EU once it is finalized they will be 20bn a year worse off.

Or the uk have what is rightly there's .

originally posted by: paraphi

EU antitrust regulators ordered Apple on Tuesday to pay up to 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in taxes plus interest to the Irish government after ruling that a special scheme to route profits through Ireland was illegal state aid.

The European Commission in 2014 accused Ireland of dodging international tax rules by letting Apple shelter profits worth tens of billions of dollars from tax collectors in return for maintaining jobs. Apple and Ireland rejected the accusation.

EU demands Apple pay Ireland up to 13 billion euros in tax

This is unsurprising. Apple, as well as Google, Amazon, Facebook, Starbucks and a whole host of so called "global" companies have been avoiding paying tax where they are doing business. However, I cannot help feeling that the EU is making a pig's ear of this one.

Firstly, Ireland does not want the tax revenues and are clearly content to host a big employer. Ireland are an unwilling participant in this. The EU should have sought to split the tax revenues to the constituent nations in the EU disadvantaged by the tax avoidance regimes in play.

Secondly, the fact is that Apple will appeal and drag this whole thing on for years and in so doing demonstrate their ability to frustrate and confound.

Thirdly, the nation state should be allowed to manage their tax affairs, including arrangements for corporations to pay no tax. However, earnings in other states should be taxable within those states.

Personally, I am keen to see these mega-corporations pay taxes where they do business. I would like their ability to avoid tax curtailed and the rules set by sovereign nations. Tax is after all still within the jurisdiction of member states, at the moment at least, although this ruling questions that assumption. That is the fair way to approach this, and nations within the EU should resolve this individually, rather than the EU acting as the authority.

I also wonder what will happen with BREXIT. The UK will be released from the EU shackles and in consequence may be more successful in getting appropriate tax recompense, rather than having to cow-tow to a set of EU processes that don't seem to work for the member state.

I think there is more way than one to look at this.
There's something dreadfully wrong when all Apple had paid in tax was in the region of £60 per £million earned, we pay heaps more than that on a monthly salary. What Apple was doing was pretty crooked, as well as the arrangement with Eire was crooked, and against the whole ethos of the EU really.

a reply to: mx44z

They never intended on leaving. The referendum was non binding. It was an opportunity for average people to vent their opinion, nothing more.

The proof of that is its been forgotten. When remember, it was the issue before everyone?

People are led by their opinions like sheep.

a reply to: intrptr

I have actually thought about it all been one big show put on especially when looking at the stock markets a lot people put serious cash down and right after the vote almost everybody resigned and vanished.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: mx44z

They never intended on leaving. The referendum was non binding. It was an opportunity for average people to vent their opinion, nothing more.

The proof of that is its been forgotten. When remember, it was the issue before everyone?

People are led by their opinions like sheep.

Well that is just about right, for instance in 2013/14 over 4000 institutions like Rolls-Royce in the UK received EU money.
Wales since 2000 has received four £BIllion in EU money, much of it in the northwest, an area that voted to leave the EU, that's more than a bit whacko, in contrast to that, Germany gets far less out of the EU than any of the countries, but pays the most...that's what the EU was about, accumulating wealth and spending it where it was best needed, and the UK and Eire have done extremely well with spending power that individually they had no hope of achieving.
More under the radar is the funding grants for research, who got what, and for what and when, but probably large amounts in a much less controlled environment.

There's more,
Apple received crucial finance in its early years from the U.S. government’s small-business investment program. Every one of the most important technologies in Apple’s smart products, including the iPhone and iPad, were developed elsewhere and largely thanks to state funding. So it wasn't just Steve Jobs on his own, and it makes me think that Apple has kind of shat on the US government too.

originally posted by: mx44z
a reply to: intrptr

I have actually thought about it all been one big show put on especially when looking at the stock markets a lot people put serious cash down and right after the vote almost everybody resigned and vanished.

It went dark almost immediately. All that play in the media, here too. The big issue before us, vvvt, vanished. I knew that all along, kept saying its non binding, doesn't mean a thing.

The promoters of this were working an agenda, just like all the other agendas before our titillated senses.

Once its achieved its purpose, its dropped. Onto the next big thing.

a reply to: smurfy

Another one was the promotion of the lie that some video was responsible for what happened at Benghazi.

Or that the Russians were responsible for shooting down the airliner over Ukraine.

Or the Russians were responsible for the slaughter in eastern Ukraine.

And ongoing, that NATO isn't responsible for anything.

a reply to: paraphi

Apple responded

Taxes for multinational companies are complex, yet a fundamental principle is recognized around the world: A company’s profits should be taxed in the country where the value is created. Apple, Ireland and the United States all agree on this principle.

In Apple’s case, nearly all of our research and development takes place in California, so the vast majority of our profits are taxed in the United States. European companies doing business in the U.S. are taxed according to the same principle. But the Commission is now calling to retroactively change those rules.

Yeah, the commission has no right to do this.

They should be after Ireland for the monies owed to the EU since they are member and Apple is not.

They simply followed the rules and regulations that the Irish developed for them. And I don't usually come to the defense of major multi-national corps, but this is just nonsense.

~Tenth