The true cost of Low Wages. Who is really to blame.

the simple fact though is that when it comes to "freedom" the other side of that coin is responsibility.
individuals have the responsibility to live as independently as possible, because it's only human nature for those that find themselves depended upon to expect to have a say when it comes to the actions of those who depend on them.

businesses have the responsibility to provide enough in wages so that their employees can live that independent life.. while still operating their businesses without having to rely on the gov't for tax breaks and special funding for their expansions and what not.

and the gov't has the responsibility to ensure that our freedom and rights remain intact.

what we have is catastrophic failure on all these levels. you can't really blame any one solely..

individuals need to start living as independently as they can. sure, there are some who are incapable for various reasons, but there's also others who just aren't trying.

businesses need to take care of the employees the best they can and focus less on stockholder and their desired profit margins which lead to bigger stock dividends. sure, some businesses couldn't function if they have to pay a living wage to all their employees, and maybe they need to go back to the drawing board and try to figure out a way in which they can. but others could be doing this but they just aren't, preferring instead to give their upper management and major stockholders bigger and bigger shares of the profits instead. they also need to learn to operate without all the gov't tax breaks and special financing schemes that they are taking advantage of now.

and the gov't needs to rethink the way they are handing out all that tax money and focus on those things that will produce the most positive outcome..

none of this will probably happen though, so well, I guess we can say good-bye to our freedom.

How much money is too much money? I guess we'll find out when the economy collapses and we go running to these mega-rich corporations for help. Maybe that's how they want it? Things seem to be trending toward that scenario unfortunately. Maybe it's already that way? People are always looking for a job, too bad most pay a #ty wage which keeps the cycle going.

CEO Pay Has Grown 90 Times Faster than Typical Worker Pay Since 1978

There's a problem here. If you ever wonder where all the poverty came from or where the money has all gone to, just look at the bank accounts of these CEO's. Not only have they increased their own pay 90 times faster than the average employee pay, they also buy politicians to keep it that way while increasing that rate more and more every year.

People who ignore the faults of the filthy rich and instead put the blame on the poor are brainwashed to think that way. There is such thing as too much money, our bought and paid for government should be enough proof for anyone but the propaganda is strong to keep the status quo going.

a reply to: Puppylove

Wealth is not a fixed number. The pie grows.

Look at someone like Billl Gates. He is worth almost $80 billion. Obscene...

But let's look at what he created.

Microsoft employs 118,000 people. This doesn't include the hundreds of thousands of people who no longer work at Microsoft. We haven't even gotten into the all the ancillary businesses that have benefited from Microsoft - ad agencies, packaging companies, attorneys, programmers, construction companies, etc.

When microsoft went public in 1986, the IPO created 12,000 millionaires. This doesn't even include all the tens of thousands of other millionaires created who invested in microsoft since that time.

How many billions has Bill Gates given away over the years?

Bill Gates expanded the pie. His $80 billion wasn't stolen.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

Your video ignores supply and demand. It also negates the hard work many have done to THEMSELVES to get above a minimum wage job. I didn't go to college for an engineering degree to feed the world, I went because I wanted to live an upper middle class standard of living...something I am already not seeing thanks to taxes, the ridiculous cost of healthcare AND insurance due to subsidizing the poor, housing prices through the roof thanks to subsidizing the poor... etc.

Slap import tariffs on everything, make America a right to work nation, and bring back both the manufacturing sector and the middle class.

a reply to: Edumakated

I am glad that Bill Gates hit the nail on the head so hard. That has very little to do with people who work full time and tap into the social services to meet basic needs due to the minimum wage not keeping up with medium income.

Do you think it is OK to have as an established policy for a multi-billion$ profitable corps to have their employees use what was intended to be an emergency means to survive?
I would like to see the real cost in the products we buy. Hiding true costs by using the safety nets the tax payers pay to continually supplement employees pay is dishonest, but screw it. PROFITS right? Am I missing something?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Do you under stand what right to work is?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's not because you're subsidizing the poor. You're subsidizing the rich!!

Take Walmart for example. The single largest private employer in the US. The heirs, 6 people I believe have the same wealth as almost 50% of the US population and are personally worth over a hundred billion dollars. Yet Walmart average employee makes 8.50 an hours and are encouraged by Walmart itself to also get Government Assistance, which they do in fact qualify for even though they are employed and working.

It only seems like you're subsidizing the poor because you're not looking where that money you're being taxed is actually ending up and why.

Think about it. 6 people are worth 50% of the US population combined and never worked a hard day in their life. Yet you want to blame poor people who work full time and still don't make enough to live on and still qualify for Gov. Assistance.

I heard once that whenever you hear someone with money complain about the Poor for their problems it's because they're being told that from the people above them who are even richer.

originally posted by: mOjOm

I heard once that whenever you hear someone with money complain about the Poor for their problems it's because they're being told that from the people above them who are even richer.

Hmm... probably not wise to base a world view on something you "heard once." Here's the flaw in your reasoning: I'm receiving a product from any company I'm doing business with (not counting the nation's new fling with asinine federal mandates.) I am voluntarily exchanging goods for services. What am I getting from the poor? Anything tangible there?

a reply to: mOjOm

I heard once that whenever you hear someone with money complain about the Poor for their problems it's because they're being told that from the people above them who are even richer.

The power of propaganda.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Do you under stand what right to work is?

Yup! Those who wish to work a profession outside the extortion of union membership are free to do so. It breaks the artificial spines of the unions, stopping them from pricing all the jobs right out the door and to China or Mexico. It's the definitive embodiment of worker choice and freedom.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You missed the point. The companies keep wages low so they save money (Rich +1). The poor go to the government, the government goes to you, the rich go to the bank (Rich +1). Your paying the part of the employees wage the rich don't feel like paying.

The post you replied to was well written and had several valid points. It is a shame you focused on discrediting him via a saying that is logical and replying to one point and not fully understanding it.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

What you're getting from the poor are all the things you clearly take for granted every single day. They're the people who cook you food when you go out and bring it to you. They're the people who make the clothes you're wearing now and the items that fill your house. They're the people who build your house that build your appliances, that clean your office, that take care of your kids, that deliver the products you buy and check you out when you buy them and make sure the shelves are filled when you go to buy them.

They are they people you see every day that are busy working just like you making sure that society is working smoothly.

You know that "Product" from that company you're doing business with??? Well who do you think is down in the bowels of that building that you never see who actually builds and makes that stuff you're buying??? It ain't the CEO or the Guy in charge of Marketing or Sales who you talk to that's for sure. It's someone you don't see and never meet that you can thank but instead don't even know exist.

a reply to: mOjOm

Don't bother, all those people are lucky to be allowed to make those things and do those things for him. It's their privilege to do it for table scraps. The disconnect will never make sense to me.

originally posted by: WanderingNomadd
. Your paying the part of the employees wage the rich don't feel like paying.

Welcome to the exciting world of Commerce! I don't see why this is problematic to you aside from your obvious doe-eyed hatred for and lack of understanding of profitable business.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

..something I am already not seeing thanks to taxes, the ridiculous cost of healthcare AND insurance due to subsidizing the poor, housing prices through the roof thanks to subsidizing the poor... etc.

Coming from someone who hates paying towards the poor even though he recieves untold benefits from doing so. The poor people trapped in low wage jobs who work as hard or harder than you don't want your charity but they are forced to rely on it. Stop thinking your hard done by because you didnt make it to the upper middle class..There are people out there worse off than you who put just as much effort in.

I don't see why this is problematic to you aside from your obvious doe-eyed hatred for and lack of understanding of profitable business.

And yet you cannot present any of your own understanding of business just your opinion and unfounded assessment of who is to blame.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Welcome to the exciting world of Commerce! I don't see why this is problematic to you aside from your obvious doe-eyed hatred for and lack of understanding of profitable business.

That's exactly what we're trying to show you though. Why it's a problem. You're the one complaining about paying taxes to support the poor with only an engineer's salary, right??? That's problematic yes????

So that's what we just showed you. Where the problem is rooted. Yet you're still not getting it.

You'd much rather mock someone and call them "doe-eyed" and accuse them of lacking understanding something that only smart people like you would understand. Real productive there buddy.

Keep blaming the poor and powerless for all the problems rather than those of privilege and power and wealth who literally own and control everything if you think it works that way. Some of us know better.

If you raise the minimum wage the middle class is going to pay for it with higher prices in the stores. The middle class won't see a large wage increases but they will see higher prices when they go shopping. The rich aren't going to let those minimum wage increases come out of their pockets they're just going to pass it on to consumers with higher prices. It will just devalue what those making over minimum wage can purchase. If they raise minimum wage to $15 an hour Joe Blow making $22 an hour isn't going to be happy when everything doubles in price.

Raising the minimum wage isn't the answer creating jobs that pay more is. If they hadn't shipped our jobs to China India and Mexico to exploit slave labor we wouldn't be in this mess. Chrysler Co recently announce they're moving all car production out of the US to Mexico. Ford Mo Co recently move a bunch of their manufacturing to Mexico. Chrysler took billions in tax payer bailout money back in 2008 only to move a large portion of their production out of the US.

Why should these CEO's be aloud to exploit foreign slave labor at the cost of the average American? If they want to exploit a foreign work force maybe they should go live there. Designed in America built by slave labor.

a reply to: wantsome

If you raise the minimum wage the middle class is going to pay for it with higher prices in the stores. The middle class won't see a large wage increases but they will see higher prices when they go shopping.

As the video shows when you raise the cost of things it is distributed generally. So to raise a wage from 8 to 13 would require a 1.4% increase in the cost of food to cover this. Obviously there are other factors involved but it gives a good idea as to how much a corporation like walmart would have to increase costs to meet a fair wage. Your thinking a, say 30%, increase in wages would translate to a 30% increase of your bread, it wouldn't.

Raising the minimum wage isn't the answer creating jobs that pay more is. If they hadn't shipped our jobs to China India and Mexico to exploit slave labor we wouldn't be in this mess.

That statement condradicts itself. If they brought prevoiusly slave labour jobs back home it would be a further addition to minimum/low wage employment. But your right the problem is exploitation of slave labour aswell.

Chrysler Co recently announce they're moving all car production out of the US to Mexico. Ford Mo Co recently move a bunch of their manufacturing to Mexico. Chrysler took billions in tax payer bailout money back in 2008 only to move a large portion of their production out of the US. Why should these CEO's be aloud to exploit foreign slave labor at the cost of the average American? If they want to exploit a foreign work force maybe they should go live there. Designed in America built by slave labor.

It is the corporate takeover of governments globally. Corporatocracy is very much alive and well behind the scenes. Add the private banking sector to this and get the poor to fight the middle class; And the middle class to blame the poor. Then the 1% can sit back and watch without opposition.
Edit: CEO earnings has increased 93% since 1978, Low wage has devalued 24% due to currency devaluation. It does'nt take a genuis to work out how the CEO ensures he keeps meeting targets whilst also bumping his pay.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

"This constant dislike, resentment and sometimes pure hatred of the victims who have done nothing wrong except be forced to work for increasingly poor returns, All to keep prices down and profits up, is ridiculous. They may recieve public support, but its the companies that profit it from this, and those who are not struggling as hard pay the bill."

There are many people out there who hate those on the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile because they claim the dole or other welfare. These views are not the product of their own thinking, they are the product of someone elses thinking, the media.

Ask them if they have ever heard of corporate welfare and they'll go .....eh???????????? wwwwwasat ??????????? see?

Here is another trap for them. Ask them to tell you how much money gets paid out in welfare each fortnight or month whatever? They'll gladly roll out a huge big figure.

Then ask them how many businesses would close next week if that economic stimulus package was not spent into the economy by being bounced through the bank accounts of the sick, the old, the unemployed etc, each month by the govt?

Name a local shopping centre and ask them "how quickly do you think most of the shops in that shopping cretre would close down if the govt did not send out that economic stimulus package that month.

Then ask them how much money gets spent on corporate welfare each year and again the will be like stunned deer in the headlights. How can they know when they dont even know about corporate welfare because the man or the lady on the TV has not told them about it.

a reply to: wantsome

first, it isn't just the minimum wage earners that are having problems making ends meet and are relying on gov't programs to help them out! you have teachers leaving the job market because the cost of the childcare compared to their salaries makes being a stay at home mom and just making due with the one income more reasonable.
there's basic economic principles that are being bypassed all over the place here. one being that if the cost of goods and services charged is out of the range of enough people, then the company is forced to either find a way to reduce those costs or they go out of business because they don't have enough customers.. consistently using the wages they pay out for the labor that produces their goods only serves to cut into the customer base. so tell me, if even the teachers, professionals can't see paying the cost of childcare in this country just why is there so many daycare centers in this country? if it's not because while they are being forced out of the job market, the gov't is using taxmoney to help those who might be earning less to get people working in those minimum wage jobs! the same could be said of the rent, the food, and every other "necessity" that the gov't chooses to help the poor obtain. the more people you have getting assistance, the inbalanced the economy becomes.

Raising the minimum wage isn't the answer creating jobs that pay more is.

because if we created those good paying jobs, we wouldn't need the cashiers in the stores, the bus drivers delivering our kids to school, or the waitresses serving you your food. and, there's plenty of people working in close to minimum wage production jobs now.. punch press operators cutting the gaskets for navy jets, people making plastic products, printers, and on and on! these jobs were never just filled by kids or entry level! originally, many of them were done by women, who had husbands, who because of their sex were entitled to more! unfortunately, that same gap that forces teachers out of the workforce while paying the childcare so others can work the low wage jobs also puts families in a position where they have to move out of the hud subsidized housing because the gov't decided to pay more rent for the "poor", or skip meals here and there till their next paycheck, or find that there is no way that they can pay for this month's supply of the medicine their kid needs to leave! it can force a family to break up and the low wage workforce that used to be able to get by because they were only secondary income earners now has to get by on that low wage.

we only need to see where the money flow ends up at to know who is being the least responsible here. the poor is barely getting, lucky if they have a running car. the middle class is losing ground and joining the ranks of the poor, the gov't is bankrupt, and those big corps, well, they are making record profits, but for some reason, most of the shareholders are losing their investment money if not on paper, then they are when inflation is added in.

If we keep going the way we are, our democracy will be replaced by a corporatocracy, since the individuals will be so poor that they will be looking for the gov't for help and not paying the taxes to keep it going. and well, it will be the banking corporations that own the gov't because it has no chance of ever paying back what it is owed!

that leaves only two options, either pressure is put on the corps to get them to accept what has always been their responsibility to pay the man his daily bread! or stop subsidizing the workforce, which will put an even greater amount of pressure on the corps and businesses, big and small.. and probably leave a few dead people in it's wake.

we've outlawed slavery over a century ago, and we've lost the last of the slave- women...
that is the hurdle that we must face. will our moral outrage against slavery be strong enough to let go of the idea that some people work so hard (lol....pushing papers across the desk and chasing a ball around a golf course) that they deserve millions in compensation a year while their workers are either funded by the us gov't or in other countries treated as slaves? remember now.... the one virtue we hold dear to all others is freedom, and this is what we risk losing in this.