The true cost of Low Wages. Who is really to blame.

a reply to: seasonal

Oh, I'm sure it will lead to civil unrest. I believe that's already happening. I wish I had the power to stop it.

The question is: what will civil unrest lead to?

If history is any indication, that unrest will lead to riots, which will shut down most of the commerce in the country. In response, the people will call for and get nationalization of most industry that is left. Those unable to run industry will fail, leading to more unrest. Eventually, the rioting and looting will cause enough of a population decrease from violence that a workable economy will start to emerge from the chaos. It will probably look quite different than what we are used to seeing, originally based on bartering. The third-world country known as the USA will slowly regrow into a civilized society again, but only after many years, possibly generations, of abject poverty unlike anything anyone posting here has ever seen.

In the meanwhile, those who have prospered will simply retreat into hiding, either in protected areas here, or perhaps abroad. They will wait until it is safe and their heirs will then re-take the reins of power.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

I will be here in my mountain, doing what I always do: surviving. It's what rednecks do. Forgive me for not wanting to play the game.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Those who sacrificed to get ahead are looking at those who didn't make the sacrifices but are getting a free ride up the ladder of financial success and thinking "why should I bust my butt?"

That is like a black slave who became free then watched the next generation ask for the right to ride a bus and said that is'nt fair I had to bust my ass to be free now you want to be allowed on buses aswell. It is your own people keeping you down because they did'nt get the break everyone deserved.

The whole point is, this system you support so wholheartedly, doesn't work. Never has, Never will. It is pushed by a class of parasites who use their positions to suck more and more people dry. Look at charts and graphs showing how the money has been funneled to the top. Your children, in 20 years say, could earn the same amount as you and they will be as bad of as someone beneath you today.

You say people are in this situation because they are quitters when actually everyones in this situation because they saw a class take whatever they wanted and did nothing about it, aka they all quit and bowed their heads.

The issues here are they have taken most the wealth, continue to take more, until eventually there is nothing left.
They have put themselves, firstly above the law, and also in a position to write the laws.

You say they don't work hard enough and thats the problem, which its not, wealth and oppotunity does'nt exist in proportions to people, not even close. With the current percentage of jobs not available and low wage jobs about 30% of the population live in poverty. These are'nt teenagers, they only make up a small amount of the grand total the average age is 35.

So again, even if a couple of generations of poor came along and every single one of them was equally hardworking there is still 26% of below living wage jobs that need to be filled all so the rich can suck all the wealth. there is still a lack of jobs.

It just seems like a dismissive, does'nt affect me does'nt bother me, attitude that is easy to excuse by saying work hard and everyone will be fine, when it's not the case at all.

People defend the rich and say they earnt it, in some cases fine. CEO's however really are not that special and they earn between 272 - 354 x more than average employees, average not poor. And even when you look at the billionaires and such they may have earnt their fortunes (though how they earnt it and whether it was legal and moral is another issue) but when they begin using that wealth to control politics and run the country and incite wars # em. They don't get my sympathy when they get lynched. And all these corporations are in bed with each other, the know the rules and they all play the game.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
The problem with your analysis is that the economy is not a zero-sum system. One man making more does not necessarily mean another man makes less. If that were so, considering the population in 1920 was about one-third what it is now, we should be a third of the $3269.40 reported median income that year, or around $1100. It's nowhere near that low.

The economy is zero sum in a sense that at any given moment there's a fixed money supply. That supply can be expanded or contracted (usually expanded) but one persons gain means another person loses.

Yeah, it bothers me. Why should I bust my butt? Why should anyone? Let's just throw a little temper tantrum and get the government to give us what we want.

If minimum wage kept up with the purchasing power we had in 1955 minimum wage would be $28/hour today. Do you really think $15, nearly half that is a problem? If anything you should be complaining that your job requires all those skills yet all you're being paid is $15/hour. You're getting completely screwed over and you're fine with it because there's job that took less effort that you can point to and say you're doing better than.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes it'll happen, and it will be due to those bloodsucking parasites you worship who could easily fix the problem and still have the money to live greater than the greatest emperors this world has ever known.

The ball is 100% in their court, they can fix this. They won't and instead of blaming them for what happens, you'll blame the victims who, pushed as far as they can take it finally snap and fight back against their oppressors.

Quite possibly what say will happen, it'll suck, and we may all suffer and die for it. But at least we didn't just wait til the boiling water finally killed us all. We went out fighting.

Eventually they won't need us to do any of the work, when that happens we'll be nothing but useless eaters to them. We need to change things or die. We need to fight back while we still can, while we still have life left with which to do it. Before they've taken everything from us and left us defenseless.

None of us want what's coming. We try every peaceful thing we can think of, and they cheat us every time. We've begged, we've worked ourselves to the bone with them giving only a select few anything for it. Those they know are sick enough to not care about all those that suffer below them. We're running out of options. They just keep stepping on us harder and harder and you tell us to wait til the crush our head without fighting back.

Do you blame the beaten spouse for her husbands abuse, because that's what your doing now. Telling us, aka that "bitch" to just shut her whore ass up and take it. It's her fault, she never does enough, she's nothing but a # up. Tell her to stay in her place because if she was worth a damn her husband wouldn't beat her.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Please do.

Look at the trend. Minimum wage increases are immediate; COLI increases happen over the next few years.

TheRedneck

Is three years not enough of a time span for you?

1944 33% increase in minimum wage. CPI went up 5.3%
1950 87.5% increase, CPI went up 10.42%
1956 33% increase, CPI 3.34%
1961 15% increase, CPI 3.4%
1967 22% increase, CPI 8.2%

1.65
1974 21.2% increase, CPI went up 31%
1975 5% increase, CPI went up 12%
1976 9.5% increase, CPI went up 12%
1978 15% increase, CPI went up 33%
1979 9% increase, CPI went up 27%
1980 7% increase, CPI went up 8%
1981 8% increase, CPI went up 12%
1990 13% increase, CPI went up 8%
1991 12% increase, CPI went up 6%
1996 12% increase, CPI went up 5%
1997 8% increase, CPI went up 3%
2007 14% increase, CPI went up 4%
2008 12% increase, CPI went up 3%
2009 11% increase, CPI went up 4%

So based on these numbers I'm going to say minimum wage increases and CPI have absolutely nothing to do with each other as far as a cause/effect relationship goes. You can see for example in 1980 at the end of the 70% recession a 7% increase happened at the same time as an 8% increase in CPI but in 1997 and 8% increase was only a 3% increase in CPI. And at the same time an 88% increase in minimum wage resulted in an

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Please do.

Look at the trend. Minimum wage increases are immediate; COLI increases happen over the next few years.

TheRedneck

Is three years not enough of a time span for you?

1944 33% increase in minimum wage. CPI went up 5.3%
1950 87.5% increase, CPI went up 10.42%
1956 33% increase, CPI 3.34%
1961 15% increase, CPI 3.4%
1967 22% increase, CPI 8.2%

1.65
1974 21.2% increase, CPI went up 31%
1975 5% increase, CPI went up 12%
1976 9.5% increase, CPI went up 12%
1978 15% increase, CPI went up 33%
1979 9% increase, CPI went up 27%
1980 7% increase, CPI went up 8%
1981 8% increase, CPI went up 12%
1990 13% increase, CPI went up 8%
1991 12% increase, CPI went up 6%
1996 12% increase, CPI went up 5%
1997 8% increase, CPI went up 3%
2007 14% increase, CPI went up 4%
2008 12% increase, CPI went up 3%
2009 11% increase, CPI went up 4%

So based on these numbers I'm going to say minimum wage increases and CPI have absolutely nothing to do with each other as far as a cause/effect relationship goes. You can see for example in 1980 at the end of the 70% recession a 7% increase happened at the same time as an 8% increase in CPI but in 1997 and 8% increase was only a 3% increase in CPI. And at the same time an 88% increase in minimum wage resulted in an

a reply to: Puppylove

Eventually they won't need us to do any of the work, when that happens we'll be nothing but useless eaters to them. We need to change things or die. We need to fight back while we still can, while we still have life left with which to do it. Before they've taken everything from us and left us defenseless.

Lol, I hate to go Hollywood but the distant future is Hunger Games. Once you have no need for the "bottom dwellers" what do you do? Kill them sure but why not make a game out of it and turn the blame on them if they dont participate.

Once you have advanced technology eating up jobs by the millions what do you do with the left over people? Feed them? Give them money? Or give them the "oppurtunity" to kill each other for the right to survive. I mean thats the attitude even now, If your not surviving its your fault not the elites. In the future it will be if your not surviving its your fault, the elites gave you the chance to kill each other your just not willing to work hard and participate.

A bit OTT but as I was writing this I became prettty sure this is where we are heading.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

I doubt "they" would even make a game out of us. They will do what they always have done. Section us off into enclosures on the least useful sections of land available keeping the best and majority for themselves. There they will leave everyone to either die or kill each other off or starve or whatever. But they will guard that fence line and nobody will be allowed to cross. It will be watched day and night both above and below ground by satellite and automated defense systems.

Meanwhile they will be modifying themselves with advanced technology, nano bots, genetic modification, etc. in their effort of creating an advanced humanity built off themselves. As they populate they will then start taking back the donated land they gave up as they see fit. Killing as they see necessary whoever might oppose them. This will be done by drone and autonomous robotic soldiers so as to not risk their own lives. Then they'll send in the E.A.T.R. robots to clean up the mess and clear the bodies.

By then "they" wont even consider the rest of humanity to be of the same species. "They" will just see themselves as "Enhanced Humans" and everyone else as some worthless sub species of human and be all too happy to remove them from the earth for good.

a reply to: mOjOm

I doubt "they" would even make a game out of us. They will do what they always have done. Section us off into enclosures on the least useful sections of land available keeping the best and majority for themselves. There they will leave everyone to either die or kill each other off or starve or whatever. But they will guard that fence line and nobody will be allowed to cross. It will be watched day and night both above and below ground by satellite and automated defense systems.

So true. It is happening and it really isn't that far away. Imagine, just Imagine, 100 years from now. Some kind of utopia, yeah sure, but not for us. Unemployed would be used to describe about 50% of the population as technology takes over and they cant have 50% of people angry, free and alive. Thats just bad business.

Meanwhile they will be modifying themselves with advanced technology, nano bots, genetic modification, etc.

And we are ust letting it happen. It is easy to pass it all of as a conspiracy but this stuff, gene editing, nano', Intelligent AI is all real and it is not going to benefit the majority. I mean they are injecting every child the west with poison (Vaccines). They could not give a # its a game to them and the best thing you can do that benefits them is to put your head down and accept without resistance. Exactly what they are getting. I don't know if it is satan worshippers, Zionists, Jesuits or just greedy elites but these secret societys are definately not looking out for us. This accept it and move on attitude will ruin this planet.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

No, killing the people it´s a bad idea in terms of corporate thinking. Who would buy the products?

It´s really a different kind of society we will have in the next 10-20 years, possibly even less. Something that never happened in the history of mankind, production without work, or with very low work.

All the relations between corporations and state and state and individuals will change.

What is being discussed its just giving money to people but many other options are available, including mandatory work on areas where the technology hasn´t reached yet like taking care of elderly people, gardening, whatever, in exchange for those monthly payments.

If you think, before the industrial revolution almost no one did repetitive work like the work planned for the robots in the next years so its a mater of redistributing wealth so it keeps circulating in the system and putting people doing peoples things like it was before.

We can always do art and hobbies, and go to the opera... Be creative on facebook or on a canvas with oil paint...

I hope humans can finally be humans.

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

The corporate masters don't actually care about their corporations or buying and selling. It's just a means to an end. They have no loyalty to it. It's not some ideal or religion to them.

The only reason we exist to them is to serve them. They do the bare minimum they think they need to do to keep us productive to serving their needs until they no longer need us.

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

No, killing the people it´s a bad idea in terms of corporate thinking. Who would buy the products?

I am not talking about the guide stone conspiracy of reducing the population by 90% of whatever it is. However these people of power have gone on record alot saying the population should be heavily reduced. I don't think they value money over power but at the moment both are entwined. Eventually money/profits won't be as important as control. Thats when a large part of a population needs to be removed as a threat one way or the other. But WW3 will achieve that when you take the new tactical nukes into consideration. It is a constantly moving tapestry no one really knows how it will play out exactly. One thing we do know is that those in the big club are winning, and none of us are apart of it.

so its a mater of redistributing wealth so it keeps circulating in the system and putting people doing peoples things like it was before.

Unfortunately this will never happen as those at the top intend to stay there; and people are intent at the moment to let them.

The only reason we exist to them is to serve them. They do the bare minimum they think they need to do to keep us productive to serving their needs until they no longer need us.

Exactly. It is all about global power. At the moment this is achieved using money. Making large amounts of money requires profit at the expense of others. Banks for example have monopolised money, they don't need profits they already own the whole system.

a reply to: Puppylove

Yes but I think they can´t achieve that end without people/consumers.

They will try to keep the fundamental aspects of the consumer economy.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

I hope you are wrong...

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

All evidence points to him not being wrong. Which really, really sucks.

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I would hope so but I know as far as the basics go I strongly believe this is correct. If you research into all the past wars you can see, both obviously and more covertly, the HEAVY influence of bankers and corporate interests.

War meets all their needs. It reduces the population (Not the rich the "Commoners"), Solidifies power and vastly increases their wealth and opportunity for wealth.

Every war has lead the world one step close to a global takeover. You can say what you want about Athenian Democracy but when they saw the rich taking over, atleast they took them down.

a reply to: WanderingNomadd

That is like a black slave...

That is insulting!

How dare you? You have the right to go back to school, learn a skill, start a business, and do hundreds of things that would likely improve your situation. All you have to do is decide to do it. Slaves had no such choice.

I have heard a lot of insults in my life, but this one is just plain sick. You should be ashamed... heck, I am ashamed for you.

The whole point is, this system you support so wholheartedly, doesn't work. Never has, Never will.

The USA still has one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Something worked.

Or are you going to tell me how you're so much worse off than children in other countries dying of starvation now?

You say people are in this situation because they are quitters...

No, I say they're in situations that typically reflect what sacrifices they are willing to make.

...wealth and oppotunity does'nt exist in proportions to people, not even close.

And where do you think opportunity comes from? Try people. If you want more opportunity, create it.

CEO's however really are not that special and they earn between 272 - 354 x more than average employees, average not poor.

Thank you for proving what I earlier said.

Have you ever sat in that chair? Until you have, you know nothing of what they do. OK, maybe you know one thing they do: give people jobs. And yet, you berate the very people who provide opportunity and jobs in the first place. It's no wonder you can't get ahead... you bite the hand that tries to help you. You bite the hand of anyone who can try to help you, unless you're expecting someone who's broke to start paying people.

I'm willing to bet you have had plenty of opportunities in your life, but you probably slammed the door in the face of anyone who gave you one. That's not hard to figure out. In one post, you have insulted all blacks, me, and anyone who could give you a better life. Nice. And it wasn't even your longest post.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Aazadan and Aazadan

The economy is zero sum in a sense...

No. It's not. Period.

Economics 101, Freshman course, 2nd week of class.

If minimum wage kept up with the purchasing power we had in 1955 minimum wage would be $28/hour today.

So based on these numbers I'm going to say minimum wage increases and CPI have absolutely nothing to do with each other as far as a cause/effect relationship goes.

So, let me get this straight... you say that CPI has out distanced minimum wage, then that CPI isn't increasing more than minimum wage. Which is it?

If anything you should be complaining that your job requires all those skills yet all you're being paid is $15/hour.

While I am well aware misery loves company, I prefer to spend my time in productive pursuits. You'll have to find someone else to help you play the pity game.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

That is insulting! How dare you? You have the right to go back to school, learn a skill, start a business, and do hundreds of things that would likely improve your situation. All you have to do is decide to do it. Slaves had no such choice. I have heard a lot of insults in my life, but this one is just plain sick. You should be ashamed... heck, I am ashamed for you

It is an metaphoricall example not a direct comparison. Dont stop others trying to get better rights because yours might have been worse beforehand. Don't go PC on me and your basically saying as we are not slaves we should just deal with our current problems.
So in other words stop progression and allow regression. Because the current regression is for us, we are not allowed progression as a society, that is for the top percentiles. Unfortunately the middle class won't realise until they are completely broke then they will start pushing for the new middle class to help and they will do exactly what they did to the poor before. Ignore and blame them. A cycle of division.

Or are you going to tell me how you're so much worse off than children in other countries dying of starvation now?

The rich corporations help to suck them dry aswell. Look into it.

No, I say they're in situations that typically reflect what sacrifices they are willing to make.

No we are in tis situation because people are giving up their rights for.....wait for it....nothing. All they are getting in return for selling out their countries and their individual rights is a standard of living that grows worse and worse.

I'm willing to bet you have had plenty of opportunities in your life, but you probably slammed the door in the face of anyone who gave you one.

I don't have to poor so stop lumping me in as a poor person defending the poor. I am a chef. The pay is'nt great but it is mandatory to work 16/17 hour days. If I worked full time I would earn good money just based on the hours. Im just not selfish I see people with less than me and I am happy to take risks to give them a better standard of living. I hate the top percentage for their arrogance and affronts to the world. They have taken an earned privellege and used that to take away everyone else rights and fair share piece by piece.

a reply to: Puppylove

Yes it'll happen, and it will be due to those bloodsucking parasites you worship

I do not worship any man. Period. I respect all men who respect others.

And before you jump, I speak colloquially; 'men' includes all humans.

Quite possibly what say will happen, it'll suck, and we may all suffer and die for it. But at least we didn't just wait til the boiling water finally killed us all. We went out fighting.

That sounds eerily like a desire for chaos.

Thanks but no thanks. I prefer staying on top of the dirt.

None of us want what's coming. We try every peaceful thing we can think of, and they cheat us every time.

I remember something my son said once when he was young. He was playing a video game and threw the controller down, yelling "It's cheating!" After watching it happen a few times, I finally asked him, "How is it cheating?"

"Because I lost!"

Of course I explained to him that winning and cheating were too different things. In life, you don't always get to win, but it doesn't mean someone cheated. It means someone else won. Maybe someone should have explained that to you.

Do you blame the beaten spouse for her husbands abuse, because that's what your doing now.

Does no one in this thread have a shred of decency? For shame...

What kind of human even tries to twist a debate into something like that?

TheRedneck