The Two Names of God

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The Bible uses the word "heavens" in different instances. One to refer to the sky of the earth and the other to refer to everything outside of it (the universe).

God is a triune God. He is made up of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Here are some verses to reflect what I'm talking about. The Israelites obviously had a hard time understanding this too, hence the reason God and Jesus (same God, two names) both kept telling them...

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:29 - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Exodus 6:3 - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19 speaks of Christian naming traditions. As in John-son or Richard-son. Or Jesus Caesar Ha-meschiah Bar-Davod el-Nazaree-- his crowns and titles are without number. Jesus was destined to father a son like Immanuel, so Joseph named Jesus after Isaiah. Isaiah, Hosea and Joshua etc. are different versions of the same name, which could or would be translated Jesus in Greek or Latin. It has nothing to do with any triune god.

1 John 5:7 is a middleage forgery, do a search for 'Comma Johanneum'

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

There are plenty of other verses to back up what I'm saying, whether you believe them or not. It helps to have a better understanding of what the entire Bible says when you're trying to make heads or tails out of two verses.

This is how it is. Jesus is the Word.

John 1:1-4, 14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Here are more...

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Jesus is the king of Israel, the redeemer, and the Lord of hosts. It mentions all three in Isaiah 44:6, but it clearly shows all of them together stating "I AM", not "WE ARE".

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Elohim=Gods, literally. Israel emerged out of Canaan and the Canaanite Gods are the foundation of Judaism's El& HaShem/YHWH/Baal Asherah, Shachar/Shalim.

Eheyeh Asher Eheyeh could read "I am Ashera I am."

Levites is etymologically linked to Leviathan (Sumerian Tiamat?)

Melech means King but could read also Moloch.

Issachar is from Shachar
Benjamin, BeniYamin (Sons of Yam)
Shem is from Hammurabi's Shemosh/Chemosh

Abraham BRHM=Brahma
Sarah = Sarasvati
Seth=Set(h), Sheth
Nimrod=Osiris

El and Asherah had a son named Dagon who had a son named Baal(Lord) who became known as IAO IHUA YHWH (something like that).
Lilith=Lillu (Sumer)
Assyria is from Asher, Asherah wife of El.

Most importantly Elohim is a plural word and so absolutely is Hashamayim which mean respectively GodS and HeavenS.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Hellel ben Shachar is from where we get Hallelujah

Ya ra shalim Jerusalem (vowels are assumed).

I don't know for sure about Yah Ra but the shalem in Jerusalem comes from Shalim twin sister of Shachar (planet Venus).

Also in both the old Canaanite mythology of 70 Sons of El and Asherah is the source of the 70 post flood nations each receiving a god of its own.

72 is the # of names/shems of God in Kabbalah and the # of demons put under Solomon's dominion to assist in building the Temple. 70 is a constant in the Bible and originates from Canaanite mythology.

So I would say 2 names is short of even the amount of different names used in the Tanakh as there are MANY.

Here's my view

The first fruits
birthed
elohim
aleph-tau (alpha-omega, the entire alphabet, the logos)
heavens
aleph-tau
earth

The firstborn power was male/female. In the image of god he created them male and female. (heaven male/earth female at least in the Hebrew sense, reversed in the Egyptian).

The source (the Father) --> birthed the Logos, the Logos was Male/Female (Sophia/Jesus) --> The 7 days in Gen 1 are not speaking of the physical world, but of the spiritual man, it is the evolution of the spiritual man.

Gen 1:1 is the seed, the 7 days are the full plant. The final destination is the 7th day which is rest, which is shown to be oneness with God in Hebrews 9-12.

And the earth became formless and void is the beginning of our state when we enter the physical world. Dark and cold in understanding. Veiled in our minds by the thick clouds. Then the spirit vibrates over the waters of our mind--> LET THERE BE LIGHT. That is the first birth or awakening to see beyond the physical veil. We begin to separate darkness from light like night from day. But we are still not fully there. We must develop a living ecology, with birds (imagination, goals dreams) fish (deep thoughts, emotions). The 6th day being the culmination of the process when we are made fully human (the true human or the Son of Man). Fully conscious fully aware. This is a male/female spirit and flesh united, this is the resurrection body, the ascended body.

a reply to: zardust

AT (Alef Tau) is not translated in English since English has no article for the accusative case. 'At' is the Hebrew article used before accusative nouns. In German, since Heaven (Himmel) is masc. (and we look away from the dual/plural of Shamayim), AT is partly translated as the article DEN before Himmel, but in my German bible no articles are used in Gen 1:1 at all, other than in Am short for «An dem»: «Am Anfang schus Gott Himmel und Erde.»

originally posted by: zardust
Here's my view

The first fruits

Reshyt may mean firstfruit (from Heb. Rosh, Eng. Head), and I suspect you interpret the -yt suffix (actually -it, but ATS keeps claiming the Hebrew name for Genesis is a dirty word) as plural -ot? However, Reshyt is paired with the prefix Be- which means in, with or by, and time is expected since the verb is bara, to generate.

birthed

Well spotted. Bara is only used with Elohim as subject and its closest relative must be the noun Son [of] or Bar as in Barjesus, Bardavod or Barabbas.

elohim

An odd word indeed. Always plural or dual, but acts singular.

aleph-tau (alpha-omega, the entire alphabet, the logos)

See my reply above. AT is the accusative case article in Hebrew.

heavens
aleph-tau
earth

Heavens reads [Dual] Names, Earth actually just means Land.

The firstborn power was male/female. In the image of god he created them male and female. (heaven male/earth female at least in the Hebrew sense, reversed in the Egyptian).

Geb and Nut were the Egyptian gods for heaven (female, Nut) and earth (Geb, male). There are similar Canaanee and Sumerian tales. Ashera poles were falli they raised to symbolise sex between earth and heaven. Same could be said about the tree-cults and the mountain-cults.

The source (the Father) --> birthed the Logos, the Logos was Male/Female (Sophia/Jesus) --> The 7 days in Gen 1 are not speaking of the physical world, but of the spiritual man, it is the evolution of the spiritual man.

Gen 1:1 is the seed, the 7 days are the full plant. The final destination is the 7th day which is rest, which is shown to be oneness with God in Hebrews 9-12.

And the earth became formless and void is the beginning of our state when we enter the physical world. Dark and cold in understanding. Veiled in our minds by the thick clouds. Then the spirit vibrates over the waters of our mind--> LET THERE BE LIGHT. That is the first birth or awakening to see beyond the physical veil. We begin to separate darkness from light like night from day. But we are still not fully there. We must develop a living ecology, with birds (imagination, goals dreams) fish (deep thoughts, emotions). The 6th day being the culmination of the process when we are made fully human (the true human or the Son of Man). Fully conscious fully aware. This is a male/female spirit and flesh united, this is the resurrection body, the ascended body.

Remove the verse numbers and the punctuation and translate the text again. A whole new world emerges. A much more down to earth and mundane one. God was just a father and a conquerer. He didn't create Heaven and Earth, he came here and seeded mankind.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The word bereshyt describes the crowning of the head during birth IMO. The first fruit is the first to open he womb or the season or the ceremony.

B is house or woman
Rosh is head

Btw there are 7 words in gen 1:1(I know that's the point of the thread) with 28 letters. Seven is complete and 4 is creation 7x4=28 . We see those patterns all throughout the bible which is why I call this verse the seed. It's carries within it the genetic information for the entire tree.

Btw many believe there are 72 meanings of this verse.

originally posted by: zardust
Btw many believe there are 72 meanings of this verse.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

best thread on ATS ATM.

Doesnt the word for void also imply "a judement passed by God" .....MADE VOID?

Heb. היתה «hayatah» takes on objects and is is a transitive verb, «became/turned into [objects]» so the idea that there is a transformation involved is not new or unknown, it's a common lightbulb moment when students learn the implied transitivity involved here.

implying that it once had light....was the home of light....made void by judgement....and was made dark...

I interpret the Heb. words for deep and formless here, Heb. תהו & תהום «tahu» & «tahom» as a singular of Heb. תהומת «Tahomot» fem. pl. «abysses» and possibly transliteration of the Chaldean name of the abyss «Tiamat».

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The first verse in the Hebrew Torah reads (with the common spaces, but without mesorah and punctuation): Heb: ...בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ Tr: Bereshyt bara Elohim at hashamayim waat haeretz Eng: Initially created Forces the two Names of God and the Land... KJV: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth Now who can spot the modern translating error?

Wanting not to offend you or cause contention, it is written in the works of the Portion of Bere#h of ME'AM LO'EZ --
The King Talmi called Ptolemy in the years of 3500 [260 BCE] who caused the translation of the Hebrew to Greek was the one who changed the very first verse of the Hebrew which read "Bere#h Bara Elohim" or translated as "In the beginning created God." Thinking that this would be as to say an entity "beginning" created God it was then change as to read [Elohim Bara Bere#h] or "God created in the beginning"

Here is my problem. You say that your source is written as [KJV: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth] but that is impossible. You may have a translation of that nature but if it be true that Ptolemy did cause it to be read like that then how can we be certain when those Hebrew MSS are lost of which Ptolemy used?

My understanding is that one would have to have the autographs of that source in order to make a statement of certainty. We cannot use any Hebrew MSS with certainty. There is much uncertainty among the most respected linguists of the authenticity the Septuagint even being created as tradition tells us. At one time we did have the Aleppo Codex for a reasonable source but even that has been destroyed by the Muslims. Dead Sea Scrolls? Same problem as they also are not the autographs of your source.

There has been a recent three years study of the name of the Hebrew Creator which is God being "Yahuah' and His Begotten Son being "Yahusha" but even that is speculation as we still have no autographs.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
huh?

It's no secret the literal translation is heavens. not heaven. Modern
translations clearly favour heavens not heaven.

biblehub.com...

It's heavens because there are 3 heavens in the bible.

1/ the Sky including space as we now understand that.
2/ the Second Heaven aka the Spirit Realm, where angels, good and bad exist
3/ Third or Highest Heaven is where God's full nature or face is visible.

There are many many names/titles of God. I don't see any mystery here.

a reply to: Seede

Syntactically the different kinds of classical Hebrew found in the OT is generally considered to be VSO languages; Verb, then Subject, then Object-- while English and Norwegian are SVO languages, Subject, Verb and Object (Biblical or Koine Greek is SOV). Are you saying there is evidence of a different syntax regime in Hebrew from around 260 BC? In a time where the Jews would speak and write a kind of post-Exile Aramaic? You are aware that the Ptolemy dynasty were Graeco-Egyptian, yes?

a reply to: RudeCherub

In Classical Hebrew the -ayim suffix isn't a regular plural (i.e. pl. m.: -im / pl. f.: -ot), it specifically denotes pairs of things. Two heavens, or like I said, rather, two shem-ayim lit. the two n a m e s [of God] (possibly relating to Earth's two distinct hemispheres?).

ETA: In modern Hebrew they may refer to Shamay Shamayim «Heaven of heavens», but in Biblical Hebrew, there is no word Shamay as in Shamay-im as in «many heavens», but rather Shem-ayim «pair of names» even Ha-Shem-Ayim, «The Two Names [of God]». The Northern- and Southern Hemispheres?

ETA2: Every 72 years there are 45 morningstars, and Venus has drawn 9 complete morningstar pentacles upon the horizon. Also every 72 years the Axis Mundi has moved 1° backwards along the Zodiac ending an era and welcoming another. Every 30° or 30 such turns-- Earth enters a new Astrological Age, leaving the former behind, and it's happening as we speak btw.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: RudeCherub

The -ayim suffix isn't a regular plural (m.: -im / f.: -ot), it specifically denotes pairs of things. Two heavens, or like I said, rather, two shem-ayim lit. the two n a m e s [of God] (possibly relating to Earth's two distinct hemispheres?)

Granted the translation can read
1. In [the] beginning, Gods [he] created the two heavens and the earth.

But on fast reflection doesn't break the 3 heavens concept - after all One heaven is physical - Sky/Space, the other spiritual - and that is clear duality - the differentiation between the Highest Heaven, and the regular heaven, is one the bible makes later, but equally we could say the physical heaven, is divisible into the atmosphere, and the final frontier.
Arguably this is the poetic narrative of Genesis one, which is about sub-division, & increasing complexity from that division, aka breaking bread.

a reply to: RudeCherub

It's more intricate than that, for the texts doesn't really have any Mesorah, spaces or punctuation, and the syntax is wider than the Leningrad/BHS consensus implies. Remove the bird-droppings and a whole different story emerges. One more mundane and down to earth open reading. Hebrew is an odd language. It's one of the oldest we have, but still damn modern and rational, even compared to many more modern languages like German or English. Re-read my OP and dig into it, the first verse doesn't stop where verse 2 starts, understand the implications this new syntax structure brings about. Longer sentences deeper more science-like seemingly non-religious meanings and readings.

And when you have re-read the OP, taste the following: Is BHS/BHL consensus really just the Sod of these books?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Of course the verse breaks are later conveniences.

The earth is female here, there is a divine feminine at play, after all later man is made in the image of Gods, male and female. I just don't see your read here at all. But thanks for the duality/pair implication of -ayim, it's always interesting to learn something.