Religions of heaven and hell: What happens to Children who die?

a reply to: Dcopymope

It does seem to state in Isaiah 65 that those outside of new Jerusalem will live one-hundred years, die and face judgement in the new heaven and earth, however there are some problems I see with your interpretation of this scripture concerning the timeline of the judgment. Firstly, neither John nor Isaiah 65 states that the adopted sons of god, or the bride of Christ will face judgement. The great white throne of judgement is for all who are NOT of the bride of Christ. They, the unbelievers will be judged according to their works. Those who are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire along with the rest of the filth that worshipped the beast, his image and took the mark in their forehead. They, along with death and hell itself will cease to exist, as all will be cast into the lake of fire. So Isaiah says that those who are not of the bride of Christ outside of the new Jerusalem will die at one hundred years then be judged, but John says that the judgement occurs before the creation of the heavens and the earth, not after. In the new heaven and earth, sin and henceforth death itself will be no more. The whoremongers, the adulterer's, the sorcerer's, etc, will cease to exist in the new heavens, as they will all in fact have their place in the lake of fire, NOT to the tree of life in the kingdom of God like it says those listed in the book of life will in Revelation 22.

I believe you are confusing the New Jerusalem with the new heaven and new earth along with the word judgement. Let's clear up judgment first. When any soul dies it is then immediately judged and either rewarded to live in the kingdom of heaven or be bound in Sheol. This will go on till the last day of this creation. I do not subscribe to reincarnation in a afterlife nor to a purgatory in the afterlife. All people will die and be judged immediately upon death with either New Jerusalem or Sheol being their rewards. That is the doctrine of Jesus and James and the rabbinical doctrine is vastly different than that of James.

At the last day of this creation there will be a final gathering of all who are living. Up to this last gathering (second resurrection) all of the dead have been judged and are either in Sheol or New Jerusalem. These people who are alive at this last day are the only ones who will then stand before the white throne judgement. All of the rest who have died prior to this are already judged and sentenced to heaven or Sheol. Now after the final white throne judgment, all of the human race has died and has been judged. There are no more bad people left of the human race and there is no more of this universe of terrestrial substances. Everything terrestrial is now gone.

Now, the New Jerusalem is the only place left of the human race. Death and the universe is completely dissolved. New Jerusalem is the only sanctuary for the human race.

Then the Father God presents a new heaven and earth and another great mystery unfolds. That little aborted child or mentally challenged person is restored to flesh and blood with complete faculties and placed upon the new heaven and earth. New Jerusalem then descends upon the new world and now we see the children are given one hundred years to become sanctified citizens of the New Jerusalem. Isaiah nor the apostle John reveals where they have been kept. I do not believe any man can know that mystery.

The only judgment left at this point will be the children who have matured and their one hundred years exhausted. Once the children mature and all have been judged is another story which no one that I have heard has the answer.

As of today we do not know whether the new heaven or the new earth has been created and waiting. We are told in the scriptures that New Jerusalem has been created and is inhabited and is known as the kingdom of heaven but we do not know whether it has united with the new world as yet. There is much that Isaiah and John were not told. At this point we know that the terrible sin of killing children will be dealt with in the future.

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

We have a much too small idea of God. Much too small; don't try to put God in a box. Your box will never be big enough.

Well said --

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Dcopymope

It does seem to state in Isaiah 65 that those outside of new Jerusalem will live one-hundred years, die and face judgement in the new heaven and earth, however there are some problems I see with your interpretation of this scripture concerning the timeline of the judgment. Firstly, neither John nor Isaiah 65 states that the adopted sons of god, or the bride of Christ will face judgement. The great white throne of judgement is for all who are NOT of the bride of Christ. They, the unbelievers will be judged according to their works. Those who are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire along with the rest of the filth that worshipped the beast, his image and took the mark in their forehead. They, along with death and hell itself will cease to exist, as all will be cast into the lake of fire. So Isaiah says that those who are not of the bride of Christ outside of the new Jerusalem will die at one hundred years then be judged, but John says that the judgement occurs before the creation of the heavens and the earth, not after. In the new heaven and earth, sin and henceforth death itself will be no more. The whoremongers, the adulterer's, the sorcerer's, etc, will cease to exist in the new heavens, as they will all in fact have their place in the lake of fire, NOT to the tree of life in the kingdom of God like it says those listed in the book of life will in Revelation 22.

I believe you are confusing the New Jerusalem with the new heaven and new earth along with the word judgement. Let's clear up judgment first. When any soul dies it is then immediately judged and either rewarded to live in the kingdom of heaven or be bound in Sheol. This will go on till the last day of this creation. I do not subscribe to reincarnation in a afterlife nor to a purgatory in the afterlife. All people will die and be judged immediately upon death with either New Jerusalem or Sheol being their rewards. That is the doctrine of Jesus and James and the rabbinical doctrine is vastly different than that of James.

At the last day of this creation there will be a final gathering of all who are living. Up to this last gathering (second resurrection) all of the dead have been judged and are either in Sheol or New Jerusalem. These people who are alive at this last day are the only ones who will then stand before the white throne judgement. All of the rest who have died prior to this are already judged and sentenced to heaven or Sheol. Now after the final white throne judgment, all of the human race has died and has been judged. There are no more bad people left of the human race and there is no more of this universe of terrestrial substances. Everything terrestrial is now gone.

Now, the New Jerusalem is the only place left of the human race. Death and the universe is completely dissolved. New Jerusalem is the only sanctuary for the human race.

Then the Father God presents a new heaven and earth and another great mystery unfolds. That little aborted child or mentally challenged person is restored to flesh and blood with complete faculties and placed upon the new heaven and earth. New Jerusalem then descends upon the new world and now we see the children are given one hundred years to become sanctified citizens of the New Jerusalem. Isaiah nor the apostle John reveals where they have been kept. I do not believe any man can know that mystery.

The only judgment left at this point will be the children who have matured and their one hundred years exhausted. Once the children mature and all have been judged is another story which no one that I have heard has the answer.

As of today we do not know whether the new heaven or the new earth has been created and waiting. We are told in the scriptures that New Jerusalem has been created and is inhabited and is known as the kingdom of heaven but we do not know whether it has united with the new world as yet. There is much that Isaiah and John were not told. At this point we know that the terrible sin of killing children will be dealt with in the future.

I'm aware that when someone dies they either go to hell, also referred to as Sheol, or to another place referred to as "Abraham's bosom". As you state, it most certainly is not purgatory, because this is not some detoxification program for the soul as taught in Catholicism. Ditto for reincarnation, as it is stated that it is appointed unto man to live one life and then face judgement, so we all know it is blasphemy. However, scripture also makes it very clear that there is a third place to which no soul has yet to be sent called 'the lake of fire'. There is only one judgement and that judgement has not occurred. The lake of fire will be the final judgement for both man and angel. The realm of the dead, Sheol itself, will be cast into the lake of fire. It is made very clear that this does not occur until the second Resurrection of all of the dead to ever exist in history, when they will stand before God on the throne and be judged according to their works.

There is no discrimination of exactly who among the dead will face judgement, it simply states that all unbelievers both small and great will face judgement. Again, this is NOT the bride of Christ, the whole point in becoming the bride of Christ to begin with is to escape Gods judgement, to become blameless for your sins through the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. These are the people of the first Resurrection, of which sin and henceforth death will no longer apply. Jesus Christ is like the ultimate bailout, the get out of jail card, where the ransom has been paid for the soul of every man, and its up to us to accept that ransom and repent of our inner scum. If this is not the case and I as a believer will still face judgement, then it nullifies the entire Gospel and the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ as savior. It is blasphemy of the highest order. This is how I understand it as it is plainly stated in kings English for all to understand. I don't need to make it anymore complicated than that, that is the beauty of the simplicity of Gods word.

If child dies very young aged, his/hers meaning for life was only to teach something to parents or someone close to him/her, to change up or whatsoever, him/her goes back from where him/her is from, with unchangeable karmic record, it has to be this way if you think it trough, I didnt read whole topic apologies if someone said this before me.

a reply to: Dcopymope

TextI'm aware that when someone dies they either go to hell, also referred to as Sheol, or to another place referred to as "Abraham's bosom". As you state, it most certainly is not purgatory, because this is not some detoxification program for the soul as taught in Catholicism. Ditto for reincarnation, as it is stated that it is appointed unto man to live one life and then face judgement, so we all know it is blasphemy. However, scripture also makes it very clear that there is a third place to which no soul has yet to be sent called 'the lake of fire'. There is only one judgement and that judgement has not occurred. The lake of fire will be the final judgement for both man and angel. The realm of the dead, Sheol itself, will be cast into the lake of fire. It is made very clear that this does not occur until the second Resurrection of all of the dead to ever exist in history, when they will stand before God on the throne and be judged according to their works. There is no discrimination of exactly who among the dead will face judgement, it simply states that all unbelievers both small and great will face judgement. Again, this is NOT the bride of Christ, the whole point in becoming the bride of Christ to begin with is to escape Gods judgement, to become blameless for your sins through the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. These are the people of the first Resurrection, of which sin and henceforth death will no longer apply. Jesus Christ is like the ultimate bailout, the get out of jail card, where the ransom has been paid for the soul of every man, and its up to us to accept that ransom and repent of our inner scum. If this is not the case and I as a believer will still face judgement, then it nullifies the entire Gospel and the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ as savior. It is blasphemy of the highest order. This is how I understand it as it is plainly stated in kings English for all to understand. I don't need to make it anymore complicated than that, that is the beauty of the simplicity of Gods word. edit on 10-8-2016 by Dcopymope because: (no reason given)

I agree with your understanding completely. It's refreshing to read some one who truly understands the doctrine of Christ Jesus and brother James. Very few will even grasp your understanding. I also agree that there is a lot that we probably never will understand till we stand before Judgment but perhaps will be revealed in the future.

I realize that most people will ponder on the unknown and want to believe so strongly that it becomes part of their doctrine and I am also guilty of that very same thing. I have a belief that my precious dog and cat will be in the afterlife and have been poked and laughed at for that silly belief. But in 2nd Enoch it is written that the good animals indeed are in a celestial paddock. So I simply chuckle at my ignorance and admit that I don't have all of the answers. Lol ---

a reply to: EveryUsernameWasTaken

I am a student of the Urantia Book. It teaches that all people, no matter how advanced or primitive their religious understanding is will go to what we would call heaven. This includes children. In the end all individuals must make their own informed and personal choice if they want to continue the ascent to paradise.

(www.urantia.org...)

a reply to: UB2120

I am a student of the Urantia Book. It teaches that all people, no matter how advanced or primitive their religious understanding is will go to what we would call heaven. This includes children. In the end all individuals must make their own informed and personal choice if they want to continue the ascent to paradise.

I have a internet copy of Urantia and some time back started to read it. Unfortunately I could not understand that philosophy in comparison to the the thousands of MSS of Greek which are never interpreted the same by all who read them. I have such a chore in sorting out the many understandings of the Greek and Hebrew MSS that I finally set Urantia aside.

The philosophy of all people reaping the same is not very clear in my understanding. I simply cannot understand how a demented soul can reap the same reward as that of a loving soul. Nevertheless, I hope that you find your truth in that teaching. Lol

originally posted by: PrairieShepherd
Perfect mercy does not allow an innocent child to go to eternal torment. He is not going to condemn innocents to eternal torment and separation from Him, period.

Agree 100%.

Many eyewitness accounts back it up as well...

In heaven, children are there, all the ones who died young, in childbirth, or were aborted.
Source

"In 1988, evangelist Jesse Duplantis was taken up into Heaven. While he was there, he saw a multitude of small children, singing and praising God as they played little harps. When he asked the angel who had brought him there who they were, he was told they were the children the earth did not want. As Duplantis watched these children, who appeared to be from three to ten years old, he realized that they were children who had been lost to abortion. The angel explained to him that these children longed to see their mothers come to Heaven and be reunited with them." Source

"This dome," said my guide, "is the place where all infants from earth are gathered for instruction. The outer buildings are the nurseries where they are first brought, to be nourished by their guardian angel."

"Whenever an infant dies on earth, the guardian angel who brings it here considers all of its abilities and places it with others of similar ability. According to its artistic, scientific or social abilities, each is given a home best suited to the development of its gifts."

Nine Days in Heaven: The Vision of Marietta Davis: Dennis Prince, Nolene Prince

CAUGHT UP TO THE INFANTS' PARADISE

"I believe all she says is true. (Marietta Davis) I too was able to see where the infants are. Everything she described was as I saw it. But I saw and was told more specifically they were all the babies that were born and died, and miscarriages and abortions. I was only allowed in that one room, I was not allowed to travel around like she was. When I was there, I was at home. That is where we belong. Make every effort to get there." Source

"Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened."

"Well he’s 7 years old now and it took a couple of years for his parents to really understand what happened, but when Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience and could see what his parents were doing. He witnessed that his dad was praying and his mom on her cellphone. Both parents say they have no clue how he knew that, but that it’s absolutely true. And the story just gets more interesting from there.

Apparently during the same surgery Colton went to Heaven where he recounts how he met his grandfather who he had never known, who he later recognized in photos. The interesting thing is that he didn’t recognize photos of his grandfather as an old man with glasses, which is how everyone knew him, but rather as a young man. Colton’s father literally had go find a photo of ‘Pop’ as a young man before Colton was able to recognize him. Now that’s pretty wild. Source

For me this is a very odd thread. I am posting for two reasons.

One is that I just saw Murgatroid and wanted to grab the moment to wave hello as he has been on my mind.

The second is the point of this thread and an odd visceral experience I am having towards it.

While you folks are pondering this question, I lived it. These three days are always rather difficult for me. Yesterday was the anniversary of my son's birth. Tomorrow is the anniversary of his death. I got to hold him in between. I got to know him in between. I got to love him in between. I would have gladly died in his place and after all these years, I still grieve.

What can I tell you? He was here. And then he was gone. I felt the world in his eyes. I saw nothing in his corpse.

Where did he go? I have no idea. I sort of wondered on the way to his funeral. I had stopped to buy flowers because it seemed that one should bring flowers. I was young and had never been to a funeral so I was just guessing at the time. I had never been in a flower shop either. I had never had a reason to be in one. And once I was there, I was overcome by the beauty of the flowers and the amazing scents.

...and then I saw a white rose. I didn't know they came in white. I was stunned and knew that this was it. This was what I should bring to my son's funeral. And as we were paying for the roses (one for each of us) I wondered to myself if there would be flowers in heaven.

And then a Voice spoke to me and said something strange, and yet comforting. He said, "Heaven is in the flowers."

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to kill your thread.

I absolutely HATE it when that happens...

Fishy

a reply to: ClownFish

Nonsense. I find your story quite touching and powerful, ClownFish, although in one respect you may be right that not many people will try to follow your post. However, I will:
My sister lost her oldest child just before her 6th birthday to a rare form of pediatric brain cancer. From watching my sister, I know you will carry that burden for the rest of your days on earth, but I also know that it is exactly the kind of spiritual experience you had which can help with the pain if you choose to allow it to. I had more than one experience similar to yours during my niece's ordeal, stuff I cannot logically explain, and they are part of what has solidified my faith.

May God bless you and soothe your heart until you meet up with your son again.

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

Yea! A pulse! Thank you for your kind words, but that's not the effect I was going for here. But thank you for not leaving me dangling out there in the wind!

The post is about what happens to children when they die? That hit me with a bit of visceral reaction, perhaps because of the timing, and I do believe that timing is everything....well important anyway. Nothing is everything and everything is nothing to me.

What struck me was that it struck me at all, and so I paused over this and realized that of all people, I should be able to have some sort of answer to the question...no, that's not what I mean...I should have at some point asked that question to myself and it just never came up. But on further reflection, I realized that it did, but in a round about fashion. Oh, if only Life could be explained in 25 words or less...

I had not seen his corpse yet, so I had not had the experience of him being, quite literally "gone." Here one moment, and gone the next. As the OP asks, as I asked, where did he go?

I was "working my way towards that question in real time experience" if you will. But I never got there because of a Mysterious Metaphor. I wondered if there would be flowers in heaven and a Voice said, "Heaven is in the flowers."

That threw me for a loop, because I was not expecting to hear a voice like that in my head. And it threw me for a loop because I didn't understand the answer. But at some level, it quieted my very Soul and replaced my tendency to manifest silly questions in my head and instead, just listen to the Silence.

And I offer this with another wince. I may have just killed it off in another fashion! What I was TRYING to do was to offer another perspective to the question, perhaps a tad broader.

What happens to children when they die?... What happens to anyone when they die?

He was there and then he was gone. Where did he go? Did he die? What is death? What is life? Am I alive? Are you?

An innocent and naive young woman once asked an innocent and naive question...but a not so naive sounding Voice replied. For me, the reply was incomprehensible and yet it made a world of sense, at some incomprehensible level.

How? I don't know. Perhaps because, at its very core, it told me that I was not alone. Not by what He said, but by the very experience itself. So, an hour later, and after first bracing myself to look at my first corpse up close...a moment that no mother can prepare for... I saw nothing...and it was okay. It was more than okay. It was a Mysterious Blessing. I didn't know where he went, but I knew he "wasn't stuck in some corpse" if that makes any sense at all... I knew that he still was and ever will be.

Spirit is spirit. Different cultures interpret that differently. That's all. I was just sharing my interpretation, loose ended as it may be.


Fishy

originally posted by: ClownFish
a reply to: PrairieShepherd



That threw me for a loop, because I was not expecting to hear a voice like that in my head. And it threw me for a loop because I didn't understand the answer. But at some level, it quieted my very Soul and replaced my tendency to manifest silly questions in my head and instead, just listen to the Silence.

And I offer this with another wince. I may have just killed it off in another fashion! What I was TRYING to do was to offer another perspective to the question, perhaps a tad broader.

What happens to children when they die?... What happens to anyone when they die?

He was there and then he was gone. Where did he go? Did he die? What is death? What is life? Am I alive? Are you?

An innocent and naive young woman once asked an innocent and naive question...but a not so naive sounding Voice replied. For me, the reply was incomprehensible and yet it made a world of sense, at some incomprehensible level.

Your metaphysical questions are difficult to ponder, but nevertheless we are drawn to them. As a Christian of course I believe there is more to this story of ours.

This part about an incomprehensible reply is particularly fascinating to me. You were given an experience, which although it manifested partially in human words in your head, also carried feeling, yes? I have wondered, we have Scripture - the Word of God. Yet, does God speak ancient Hebrew, or Koine Greek? Likely not. What would God speak as His native tongue? If the ultimate purpose of language is to convey thoughts, ideas, feeling, or information, and God is perfect, wouldn't perfect communication be simply knowing? If God wished to convey something to you, seems to me this would be exactly how it would occur. Again as a Christian I have a Christian interpretation of this.

How? I don't know. Perhaps because, at its very core, it told me that I was not alone. Not by what He said, but by the very experience itself. So, an hour later, and after first bracing myself to look at my first corpse up close...a moment that no mother can prepare for... I saw nothing...and it was okay. It was more than okay. It was a Mysterious Blessing. I didn't know where he went, but I knew he "wasn't stuck in some corpse" if that makes any sense at all... I knew that he still was and ever will be.

Spirit is spirit. Different cultures interpret that differently. That's all. I was just sharing my interpretation, loose ended as it may be.

Yes, it makes sense. Thank you for this story and your perspective on it. I had a similar reaction to my niece's wake - she's not there - but I'm sure it is not as powerful as a mother's bond. My wife simply knows things about our children. I think mothers have a connection to their children on a metaphysical level. Please pardon me if my interpretation is incorrect, but it seems you not only knew your son was not in the corpse, but you also knew that what is truly him - spirit or soul, if you will - still exists somewhere. This is a powerful statement.

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

Yet, does God speak ancient Hebrew, or Koine Greek? Likely not. What would God speak as His native tongue? If the ultimate purpose of language is to convey thoughts, ideas, feeling, or information, and God is perfect, wouldn't perfect communication be simply knowing? If God wished to convey something to you, seems to me this would be exactly how it would occur.

I both smile and cringe when I see this...

I don't think that this is "limited" to a Christian interpretation, although it "fits" a Christian interpretation.

I've picked up a few books on Theology....and then I sat them right back down! I didn't understand a lick of it. In my opinion, Jesus cursed the fig tree because he was having a bad day and I liked that reaction. I especially liked the fact that it was illogical! But then I read where the theologians said it had to do with the Jews. Well, to me, balcony on that...Kosher of course....

Naw, I'm just messing with you. Sorry.

I had the privilege of meeting Hans Kung once. I'll never forget it -- and, as I was told many years later from a mutual friend, neither did he! It's a great story but would entail thread drift and I recently got too close to that particular flame (Any Mods...Hans Kung is a Catholic theologian who, like all theologians, had a lot to say...not that anyone was listening)

There was a conference once of great theologians from around the world and of many religions. It was exciting...and it had a surprise ending...everyone was disappointed. It never got off the ground. Why? Because they could not find common ground. They all got caught up over trying to define God....And this I find amusing....

God can make "HimSelf" (HerSelf/ItSelf) most complicated for the theologians, and most simple for the simple, and most Jewish for the Jews and most Christian for the Christians, and most ... but you get that.

I love the cry of the Jews: Hear Oh Israel, the Lord, your God is One. They also shouted it when they died.

I love the cry of the Muslims, but it pains me that they shout it when they kill. I don't think it was meant to be used that way.

I love the cry of Jesus: May they all be One.

The problem with language is that we who use it are human...thread drift and all...but my appreciation to the OP and to you for giving me a brief voice in this regard.



Fishy

a reply to: ClownFish

I've picked up a few books on Theology....and then I sat them right back down! I didn't understand a lick of it. In my opinion, Jesus cursed the fig tree because he was having a bad day and I liked that reaction. I especially liked the fact that it was illogical! But then I read where the theologians said it had to do with the Jews.

Neither am I a theologian. I struggled with that story about the fig tree - it seems such a human reaction, almost out of character for Jesus.

They all got caught up over trying to define God....And this I find amusing....

God can make "HimSelf" (HerSelf/ItSelf) most complicated for the theologians, and most simple for the simple, and most Jewish for the Jews and most Christian for the Christians, and most ... but you get that.

In my experience, theologians very much dislike admitting they do not know everything about their particular scripture or holy text. The problem is - as you insightfully state - that God cannot be defined. We are far too limited in our understanding and our perception to define God. As you illustrate, we always call God "Him" - yet, does God truly have a gender? I doubt it. I think God reveals things about Himself (the pronoun is expedient) and "translates" them into something we can somehow comprehend. But those revelations - profound and mysterious as they may be - are still limited on our end by our understanding/cognition/ability/perception.

The problem with language is that we who use it are human...thread drift and all...but my appreciation to the OP and to you for giving me a brief voice in this regard.

Yes, this! ^^^ Although, I disagree this is thread drift. To tie it back in to the OP, I think you were given a revelation - in words and feeling - that something profound and mysterious happens when not only children die, but all of us. Your experience says there is more.

Of course, this is just my $0.02.

a reply to: ClownFish



Forget Me Not - September's Flower

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

Of course, this is just my $0.02

a reply to: pthena

Those beautiful flowers that brought tears to my eyes...

Money and flowers...what more could a girl want?

But I am joking...I heard a wonderful story that I am sure people on this thread and others could quote better than myself, I think a Chinese Proverb?

If a man has a penny, he should by a loaf of bread and a flower. The bread for his body and the flower for his Soul.

Thank you for the Food. We all feed each other.

Fishy

Dang it all, I botched it...but it's two pennies. So when we give our two cents, we give our all...

When you have only two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lilly with the other...Chinese Proverb

There's a pretty picture to go with it but I still haven't figured out how you folks do that.

Thanks friends, for an unexpected smile today...

Fishy

a reply to: ClownFish

There's a pretty picture to go with it but I still haven't figured out how you folks do that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Seede

The Urantia Book is complex and many of the concepts push to the limits of human comprehension so it is not surprising to hear you had difficulty. Since it sounds like you still have a copy of the UB I would suggest you start reading part 4, the life and teachings of Jesus. It's a much easier read and is a very inspiring depiction of his life, from birth to death.

Someone who has not been kind to others or down right cruel still has the potential to go on, but it would in no sense be the same as someone who has lived a life of loving service. Souls grow/develop, and someone who has made unspiritual choices has in effect stifled the growth of their soul. If someone has been so bad as to actually prevent the growth of a soul then there is nothing to redeem.

Eventually, through application, a person call spiritually grow up. There are no shortcuts and you can't fake it with God. So those who do progress are genuine in their repentance.