Christians Pay Price As Turkey Turns To Hardcore Islam

originally posted by: 727Sky
I really am glad I am old and will hopefully not have to live to see what myself and others much more knowledgeable predict is coming.. Maybe it will start in Europe maybe not, my crystal ball may be on the fritz as well as theirs ?

Part (a small part) of the reason I left Korea. I'm going to be a part of what happens, I don't want to be the guy who perishes as simply a member of the audience, or walk out of the theater into raging Hell. A guest of Communist China? No thanks!!

Any rational person looking at how 'ready' I am at the moment would label me a loony. However, give someone a peek and find you're not alone. Then I think about all those people meandering between the tables at every gun show I attend. Thousands and thousands and thousands of 'em. At least the herd hasn't become restless. I think the Bundy Ranch scared the living s# out of TPTB. The Russians and Chinese saw it, there was a sharp intake of breath, and a hold.

Putin is exploiting his opportunities in the Ukraine and solidifying his hold on Crimea. The Chinese are seemingly dying to exploit something. What better way to further the agenda than through radical Islam and a manufactured meltdown. The question really is: Who's behind it and why? My guess is the Chinese ... and it works for them because they don't have muslims they don't control on their soil. (What could they gain? A: What could they not?)

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You will have to give us time to catch up with the" hating people over their religion" mentality. As Americans, it's new to us. In our country, everybody's religion is accepted, and we go about our business. Nobody is excluded because of their religion.

Growing up, the ME was nothing more to me than an exotic land in the sand that had camels and mysterious looking people who wore veils.

If I gave thought to religions fighting one another, it was Protestants Vs. Catholics in Ireland. Nobody has ever paid much attention to the ME.

So "where was the outrage"? Give us time to catch up, so we, too, can begin to hate based on Religion. Islam has shown us how to do this, and as you see, we learn quickly.

a reply to: infolurker

The FBI already recently talked about the spread of terrorist ties between certain sectors in the US and the middle east.

With the growing refugees Syrians spreading all over the world and here in the US this radical fronts will have plenty to work with in the coming years establishing their hold on nations socially and politically.

Sadly people are too blind in the US thanks to propaganda to see evil and hear evil until it hits them in the rear end.

The FBI also talks about the growing Muslim Brotherhood in the states where refugees and been settle.

But as usual see no evil hear no evil and thank our own government for the cover ups and supporting terrorist groups behind the veil of helping Muslims around the world.

a reply to: angeldoll

Huh? So the millions we killed in Vietnam and the 10s of millions that Europeans killed in Imperialism and the 2 World Wars didn't teach us the importance of diplomacy, learning the nature of the enemy, or that peace should be a better option? After the massive genocides of different Native American groups, I would've guessed the US would have learned those lessons.

More importantly, I find your explanation both ridiculous and inadequate. You're telling me that it's excusable for people to volunteer to fight in wars even when they haven't done due diligence on who they'd actually be fighting and invading? What kind of logic is that? I'm anti-war precisely because I know it's the innocent civilians, the workers, the parents, the teachers, the farmers, the artists, the minorities, and the students who will suffer the most from it, regardless of their ethnic group, ideology or beliefs.

You're basically telling me that your ignorance of a situation is an excuse to kill hundreds of thousands of people, to displace millions more, and then pretend you give a crap about them when it fits your narrative. Why support a war when you literally don't know who we'll be fighting or who the victims will be? Why support bombing a place when you've literally never even heard of it before our lying politicians told you that you should be outraged by it? How gullible is that?

ETA: Pop quiz: What percentage of Syrians are Christians? Which cities in Syria have the largest Christian populations? What policies do the Syrian "rebels" have in place to deal with Syria's Christians if they defeat Assad? What percentage of Syrian Christians have fled the country as refugees? (All of the answers can be found online) If you can't answer these, how can you claim to care about Christians in the Middle East, let alone support the West & GCC's current "bomb strike" campaign in Syria? Because you're literally supporting the very attacks that are uprooting those Christians, ridding them of their political influence in the country, and destroying the communities they've literally inhabited since Biblical times (I'll just assume you know about Syria's connections to early Christianity).

The reason I'm against warhawks and terrorists is because both groups are full of bloodthirsty idiots who justify killing civilians as "collateral damage" and "heathens". They're equally bad in my eyes because a dead civilian is still a dead civilian, whether they were killed by a drone strike or by a suicide vest.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hmm, so you are saying that if we really cared we'd what ... invade and convert everyone in the ME to Christianity?

I'm sure that you'd somehow have a problem with that, too. In other words, be a bit honest. There is NO way anyone could suggest any solution to this that would be a win for you.

Fact of the matter is that Turkey is taking the Lebanon route. Look at the history of Lebanon before it became the strife-ridden hole it is today. It used to be a fairly modern and balanced society where people of different religions lived side by side, and then we saw there the same thing we are seeing Turkey.

So, the question is ... Is Turkey becoming the new Lebanon? If so, is that really a good thing for anyone, including the people of Turkey?

I respect their right to their religion, I honestly do, but when that threatens to walk back the steps they have taken to modernity, when it kills and/or imprisons tens of thousands of their countrymen, is it a good thing? Is it the direction they need to be taking it?

Well the Christians that have been dying in wars where they are the main targets are probably symbolically the Brides that have lit lamps filled with oil.

So, indirectly, Jesus, the Groom, is currently removing His true followers out of harms way right now, before the 7 Year Tribulation.

The Christians that are still here on Earth, are the ones that have no oil in their unlit lamps.
Matthew 25:1-2

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hmm, so you are saying that if we really cared we'd what ... invade and convert everyone in the ME to Christianity?

I'm sure that you'd somehow have a problem with that, too. In other words, be a bit honest. There is NO way anyone could suggest any solution to this that would be a win for you.

It's actually very simple to suggest a solution that would be a "win" for me. I'm against war. I'm especially against war when civilians are the ones who'll be hurt by it (I wouldn't care if only the powerbrokers fought each other). And I'm even more against war when the soldiers and the other war wagers apparently don't even know the basics of the places or regions they're attacking. Why don't we start there?

That's been the whole point in my posts in this thread. People here are feigning concern for Middle Eastern Christians when those same people have been contributing to the downfall of those very same Middle Eastern Christians. How many of the people pretending to be outraged by Turkey's alleged actions in the OP were also against Western countries accepting Syrian refugees? Some of those refugees were Christians!

How many of the people pretending to be outraged by Turkey's alleged actions in the OP were also supportive of the War in Iraq? They didn't care about Middle Eastern Christians then, when we were wrecking their economy in the war, destroying their lands & neighborhoods, killing their friends, killing them as "collateral damage", etc.

And it'll be the same the next time any of our lying politicians say there's a new MidEast bogeyman we need to kill. You'll happily cheer for war, drone strikes, arming mercenaries & "rebels", and whatever else. Yet how many of you will stop and ask what demographics live in the cities we're about to attack? How many innocent people's lives will be shattered through familial deaths, a destroyed local economy, "collateral damage", destroyed property, etc? Because you can't pretend to care about these people if you're not even willing to ask these basic questions.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Just a quick question about something I see so much these days: you said "...the vast majority of US are peaceful, NON PRACTICING of the faith...", may I ask why then do you claim or allude to being members of the faith? I'm seriously interested in anybody's answer because it doesn't make sense to me to claim a faith if you don't practice it (which, if this is the case, says to me you have no belief in it to begin with). I'm fairly sure there's a simple answer, but im just not seeing it? Thanks ahead of time.

originally posted by: Rubicon3
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Just a quick question about something I see so much these days: you said "...the vast majority of US are peaceful, NON PRACTICING of the faith...", may I ask why then do you claim or allude to being members of the faith? I'm seriously interested in anybody's answer because it doesn't make sense to me to claim a faith if you don't practice it (which, if this is the case, says to me you have no belief in it to begin with). I'm fairly sure there's a simple answer, but im just not seeing it? Thanks ahead of time.

Corruption of Christianity .

OP is full of it .

Christians are safe in Turkey.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I disagree with you on your ideas of when people hate something they just do it for no reason.

Most people are absolutely fine with people who aren't religious regardless of which one they were born into and just attend odd functions when they have to etc. In my family its essential because we have people from all three desert religious.

Its sad that with over 2000 years of religion being rammed down our throats the only thing that benefits from this huge corrupt and depraved industry are those who peddle it and the bankers and war mongers. The rest of us just get on with our lives.

You are wrong that people don't care about the Christian persecution by the Jews in Palestine, in Iraq and the other areas you outlined, because we do. However if you look at our government and the petitions it has received on this matter over the years (I signed my first one about the Palestinians in the early 1960's), our ministers hob-knob with rothschild?Netanyaho and all their ilk and theresa may has already kneeled before that alter and Boris, making his first visit to Israel was seen wearing a prayer cap and worshipping at the wall etc - which actually for a Brit like myself seems to have nothing to do with foreign policy just the subjugation of our parliament and tax payers money to support whatever this 'chosen group' demand. It is no different though than our government's attitude to the Saudi's and this whole cringing act disgusts most of us because it isn't what we want and certainly don't agree with.

People do care about religious persecution, exploitation and murder (as you rightly identified) but Christians suffered horrendously throughout the past at the hands of the Christian churches but they managed to castrate the christian priesthood's dominance over their lives. So it isn't something that's especially on their minds until another religion interferes trying to force them to accept religious slavery again in their countries. In fairness the press - mostly zionist controlled in the west rarely reports, unless it leaks a lot of the situations in detail that you outline so most people are not aware of it.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: DBCowboy

That surprises me because she supports Israel more - or is it just the money men who can see the possibility of making huge profits from the current situation?

Turkey is becoming the second Saudi and as such will be distanced from Europe and the Europeans will be starting to deal with their borders and the expulsion of illegal immigrants themselves so Turkey will just slide into the ME more.

It's a common misconception that the center of Islam is in Mecca. Historically, Islam and the Caliphate have been ruled from Constantinople - it's capitol for 1,000 years. Mecca is a tourist/holy site but not the center of Islamic power. Erdogan is positioning himself to be the head of the next caliphate - he holds the historic capitol, he controls all the mosques and Imams in Turkey and he's got an army of 1,000,000 (that's 1 million) men.

He may not proclaim himself the head but the Islamic world is looking to him right now and by all appearances he is making the West and Christianity bend to his will. Arafat is long gone as is Nasser, Erdogan is the top dog among fundamentalist Muslims.

Soo.....

Does Putin still sound like a madman or are people ready to start listening to him yet?

No?

How about now?

Erdogan and Turkey are about to become the new Taliban run Afghanistan. Syria meanwhile was and still is fighting to remain a secular nation where ALL religions are treated equally.

Turkey has been instrumental in fuelling the Islamic uproar over it's border. How could we expect anything less in its homeland?

Keep on repeating the propaganda, "Islam is a religion of peace". Catapult the propaganda.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Don't you love history, thanks for that bit of information, but to think that Constantinople was the first city where Christianity was designated the capital religion

Before it went back to the stone age when Islam took over.

Now we know why it has become the place from where fundamentalist Islam is to rule.

Is as usual a fight for religious power over the world and the people that are dumb enough to believe in that religious power.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

That's been the whole point in my posts in this thread. People here are feigning concern for Middle Eastern Christians when those same people have been contributing to the downfall of those very same Middle Eastern Christians. How many of the people pretending to be outraged by Turkey's alleged actions in the OP were also against Western countries accepting Syrian refugees? Some of those refugees were Christians!

How many of the people pretending to be outraged by Turkey's alleged actions in the OP were also supportive of the War in Iraq? They didn't care about Middle Eastern Christians then, when we were wrecking their economy in the war, destroying their lands & neighborhoods, killing their friends, killing them as "collateral damage", etc.

And it'll be the same the next time any of our lying politicians say there's a new MidEast bogeyman we need to kill. You'll happily cheer for war, drone strikes, arming mercenaries & "rebels", and whatever else. Yet how many of you will stop and ask what demographics live in the cities we're about to attack? How many innocent people's lives will be shattered through familial deaths, a destroyed local economy, "collateral damage", destroyed property, etc? Because you can't pretend to care about these people if you're not even willing to ask these basic questions.

I've been reading your posts and trying to figure out who exactly it is you're talking about.

Who in this thread is "contributing to the downfall of" ME Christians?

Who in this thread is against accepting refugees?

Who in this thread was supportive of the Iraq War?

Who in this thread is cheering for drone strikes?

Do you even know? Or are you simply constructing a straw man to then tear down and claim victory?

No one is falling for it.

I find it very revealing of your character that you would come into a thread focused on the imminent persecution of Turkish Christians, and then do everything you can to deflect from that persecution; instead focusing on the objectionable actions of others--anyone but the Islamic kooks taking over Turkey.

It simply proves my point that you hate Christians and don't give a damn about them. Here's a perfect opportunity for you to defend Christians and stand up for their basic human rights, and what do you do with it?

You use it as an opportunity to call people hypocrites. You use it as an opportunity to whine about the West's past treatment of ME countries. You use it as an excuse to accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of being complicit in this behavior.

Why don't you turn your computer off, find a quiet, solitary place, and pray for these people instead of belittling and obscuring their plight with deflective bulls#?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Why can't you just come out and admit that there are factions of the religion that suck? That are incompatible with human decency, that are on a murderous rampage, and have been off and on for hundreds of years?

Why MUST you deflect by going into irrelevant events. You would be a bigger man if you would admit it. Most Muslims do.
Not being able to just makes you look insecure.

Western governments pay conservatives (military/spy agencies) to put out conservative propaganda also:

theintercept.com...

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Why can't you just come out and admit that there are factions of the religion that suck?

(facepalm) I made this thread when I first got here (HERE). Or does this not count?

That are incompatible with human decency, that are on a murderous rampage, and have been off and on for hundreds of years?

I simply don't agree with this. I also find it laughably hypocritical. Our country is literally fueled by a "war based economy", has a global empire of military bases, and has been involved in a continuous stream of wars for nearly its entire existence. Yet you have the audacity to call someone else "on a murderous rampage"?! If that's true, then what does that make us? We've killed far more people than those groups have just in the 20th century alone.

Why MUST you deflect by going into irrelevant events. You would be a bigger man if you would admit it. Most Muslims do.
Not being able to just makes you look insecure.

I literally responded to your post. You're the one that made the argument that being ignorant of the effects our actions had on Middle Eastern Christians made our actions ok. I'm the one arguing that the West has never cared about Middle Eastern Christians, then gave examples.

I've also spoken out extensively against extremist groups, their ideology, and the events that created them. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Oh, btw, I don't care how I look to others. As long as I can smirk on the "Day of Judgment" and say "Hey, I warned you about your hypocrisy", I'll be fine.

a reply to: NthOther

Why do you think the 1.2 to 2 million Iraqi Christians fled Iraq during the Iraq War? They were doing just fine under Saddam. His govt even paid for them to have churches there. But the Western invasion of Iraq destroyed their communities and infrastructure, so they fled. It's pretty obvious which "side" the West has taken in Iraq.

It's similar to what's going on with the Christians in Syria. The majority of them support the Assad govt which treats them fairly. The "moderate" and hardcore rebels and paramilitaries that are trying to take Assad down treat the Christians far worse and will drastically reduce the Christians' influence in Syria. But guess which side the West is backing?

Is it even legal to practice Christianity in Saudi Arabia? Technically, there are Christian citizens there. But the Saudi Arabian govt won't let them official declare their faith, much less officially build churches there. Can you guess which side the West supports through military protection, arms deals, foreign investment, and more?

The Palestinian Christians have been calling for action and help against Israeli oppression for decades. Many of them even support the BDS movement. Now can you guess which side Western govts like the US support through arms deals, military protection, trade deals, protection at the UN, etc? I even provided links about Palestinian Christians in an earlier post, so I don't know how you're still "confused" by my posts. Unless you don't like clicking links?

Are you seeing a pattern yet? Actually, I think I've explained my posts quite well.

ETA: I started my 1st post in this thread with a simple question. "Since when has the West given a crap about Christians in the Middle East?" My posts here have either directly focused on this question or have responded to the posts of others.