Christians Pay Price As Turkey Turns To Hardcore Islam

Looks like Erdogan has decided to turn Turkey into a full Sunni indoctrinated craphole. I knew Christians were 2nd class citizens and they couldn't publicly have a protestant "church" but I had no idea that the Erdogan Government actually has an agency that pays Imam's money to preach Government written hate sermons.


www.express.co.uk...

MARCO GIANNANGELI in Istanbul uncovers how the power struggle has paved the way for a more extreme form of Islam to take hold.

From the nations’s 85,000 mosques, their amplified voices were heard calling upon the faithful to take to the streets and defy the plotters. The people listened.

For others the night presented different opportunities as hardline Muslim Sunnis, whipped up to a frenzy, targeted Turkey’s Christian community.

For, despite a "tolerant" constitution, Protestants are not allowed to build churches in Turkey. Even the name church must be coupled to the non-threatening “association”.

Turkey, which once boasted two million Christians, has barely 120,000 now, fewer even than Iran. But what shocked people most about July 15’s attacks was how much hatred still remains after almost 10 years.

Though it is nominally a secular republic there can be little doubt that the government and Turkey’s 117,000 Sunni imams work together.

“The reality is that Turkey is neither a democracy nor a secular republic,” said Yuce Kabakci, a pastor in Istanbul. “There is no division between government affairs and religious affairs.”

Subsidised by taxes the Diyanet, the department in charge of religious affairs, boasts an £1.1billion annual budget, part of which goes to pay imams’ salaries.

The minister in charge is directly appointed by the president. And it is a sermon written by department chiefs that imams read out on Fridays. One sermon warned that Turks should not befriend Jewish people or Christians because they serve the West.

“There’s no doubt that the government uses the mosques to get its message across to its grassroots supporters,” said Mr Kabakci. “There’s is an atmosphere in Turkey right now that anyone who isn’t Sunni is a threat to the stability of the nation” he added.

“Even the educated classes here don’t associate personally with Jews or Christians. It’s more than suspicion. It’s a case of ‘let’s get rid of anyone who isn’t Sunni’.”

Erdogan has threatened to re-introduce the death penalty and has already overturned the ban on women wearing the hijab in Government buildings.

“Turkey is like Iran in 1975,” said one Iranian in Istanbul. “I’m sure we will see it become an Islamic Republic very soon.

I am wondering when they are gonna start burning books, its been over a week since the coup.

My family were Christians in Turkey. We left in 1910, just in time

a reply to: infolurker

It was an easy tell, IL. 0bama has been supporting Turkey. Putin has been opposed. All we needed to analyze.

With 0bama heading out into the wasteland ... With no certainty written in the tea leaves ... Erdogan makes his play for immortality or consigns himself to the Sands of Time.

a reply to: infolurker

Most of the UK papers look like tabloids, Is this one of those?

"Woman flaunts her tiny shorts for social experiment" is ABOVE your article, so I guess it is.

a reply to: infolurker

I am wondering how this will play between Christian Germany which has a large Turkish population because it will be yet another open door for extremists to flow between countries on the excuse of visiting family.

Is there ever going to be some form of sanctions against countries that prosecute Christians? If in the UK we have to have mosques, despite their known problems of producing extremists with money also going to jihadists, why should we not demand that other countries respect this and have Christian churches. We have been far too tolerant of this hate Christians attitude in muslim countries where Christians are treated as second class citizens when in most EU countries every effort is being made to house and help muslims by treating them as equals.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: infolurker

Most of the UK papers look like tabloids, Is this one of those?

"Woman flaunts her tiny shorts for social experiment" is ABOVE your article, so I guess it is.

Guess not. Here is another source about Turkey's "relationship" with it's Imams from a few years ago.

www.al-monitor.com...

This is because the state’s control of religion in Turkey is so strict that the status of mosques may appear controversial. All imams in Turkey are civil servants, and they are appointed to these mosques by the Religious Affairs Directorate, which is operating under the authority of the prime minister's office.

AND - It has already spread to Germany as the Turkish Government pay Imams in Germany!!

www.gatestoneinstitute.org...

The Turkish government has sent 970 clerics — most of whom do not speak German — to lead 900 mosques in Germany that are controlled by a branch of the Turkish government's Directorate for Religious Affairs. Turkish clerics in Germany are effectively Turkish civil servants who do the bidding of the Turkish government.

Erdogan has repeatedly warned Turkish immigrants not to assimilate into German society. During a trip to Berlin in November 2011, Erdogan declared: "Assimilation is a violation of human rights."

The move comes amid revelations that the Turkish government is paying the salaries of nearly 1,000 conservative imams in Germany who are leading mosques across the country. In addition, Saudi Arabia recently pledged to finance the construction of 200 mosques in Germany to serve migrants there.

Are your eyes opening yet? Let's not forget what is going on here:

www.washingtontimes.com...

“The Saudi government and private Saudi individuals support the propagation of the conservative Wahhabi-Salafi sect of Sunni Islam in the United States. Jihadists adhere to and interpret this sect’s beliefs to justify their actions.”

According to a 2011 survey by Islamic groups, there are now more than 2,000 mosques in the United States, an increase of nearly 100 percent since 2000. Anti-jihad scholars estimate that 80 percent of U.S. mosques are funded by Saudi money.

The Islamic Assembly of North America. The Michigan-based group was “dedicated to the spread of Islam worldwide,” the report said.
“According to the FBI, the IANA’s mission is actually to spread Islamic fundamentalism and Salafist doctrine throughout the United States and the world at large. The IANA solicited funds from wealthy Saudi benefactors, extremists Islamic Sheikhs and suspect non-governmental organizations,” the report said. The New York Times reported that half its budget came from the Saudi government.

• The World Arab Muslim Youth Association and the Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences in America. Both organizations are based in Riyadh. The report: “There is reason to believe that WAMY is closely associated with the funding and financing of international terrorist activities.”

• Al Haramain Islamic Foundation. The FBI was alarmed by its ties to the Saudi kingdom and terrorists. Said the report: “Intelligence reporting suggests it is providing financial and logistical support to al Qaeda.” Al Haramain opened a U.S. office in Oregon and received about $700,000 from its parent organization in Saudi Arabia. Its documents show it wanted to appoint the imam for al-Bayoumi’s mosque. The U.S. Treasury Department subsequently cited Al Haramain several times for ties to terrorism, and Riyadh banned its operations at home.

a reply to: infolurker

Hillary supports Erdogan.

a reply to: DBCowboy

That surprises me because she supports Israel more - or is it just the money men who can see the possibility of making huge profits from the current situation?

Turkey is becoming the second Saudi and as such will be distanced from Europe and the Europeans will be starting to deal with their borders and the expulsion of illegal immigrants themselves so Turkey will just slide into the ME more.

I'm sure that President Obama right now is formulating a plan to bring thousands of Christian refugees to the U.S.

originally posted by: Shiloh7

Is there ever going to be some form of sanctions against countries that prosecute [sic] Christians?

No. Just watch as all the Western Islamophiles turn both eyes blind to the terrible persecution Christians are about to endure in Turkey.

They hate Christianity, and don't give a damn about its adherents. The hypocrisy will be, as usual, stunning.

And, as usual, they will get away with it.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Shiloh7

Is there ever going to be some form of sanctions against countries that prosecute [sic] Christians?

No. Just watch as all the Western Islamophiles turn both eyes blind to the terrible persecution Christians are about to endure in Turkey.

They hate Christianity, and don't give a damn about its adherents. The hypocrisy will be, as usual, stunning.

And, as usual, they will get away with it.

I don't understand why so many conservatives like to equate a desire to prevent discrimination towards Muslims to the full-blown advocacy of religious intolerance displayed by Muslim fundies.

I am against discrimination. I am against religious intolerance. Why is that so hard to wrap your head around for some of you?

originally posted by: Abysha

Why is that so hard to wrap your head around for some of you?

Because your affinity for religious tolerance appears to extend only to Muslims.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Shiloh7

Is there ever going to be some form of sanctions against countries that prosecute [sic] Christians?

No. Just watch as all the Western Islamophiles turn both eyes blind to the terrible persecution Christians are about to endure in Turkey.

They hate Christianity, and don't give a damn about its adherents. The hypocrisy will be, as usual, stunning.

And, as usual, they will get away with it.

That's rich. Since when has the West given a crap about Christians in the Middle East?

More than 2 million Iraqi Christians were forced out of Iraq during the Iraq War. Where was the outrage then? And right after that, Lebanese Christians were killed and fled as refugees into Syria during Israel's war with Hezbollah (who was defending Lebanon). Where was the outrage there?

And did you know that the majority of Syrian Christians support the Assad regime in Syria? If you don't know that, then it shows that you don't care about them enough to listen to their perspectives. And if you do know that, then you obviously don't care because the West has consistently supported the Wahhabis instead. In fact, if the Western backed groups defeat Assad, the Christians there will marginalized. But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

Oh yeah, and how can we forget Israel's treatment of Middle Eastern and Arab Christians? Did you know that 10% of the Palestinians are Christians and that those Christians were in Palestine before the Zionists came? Where do you think Nazareth and Bethlehem are? Israel still crushes them and the West enables it. And do you know about the "Price Tag" attacks that the Israeli settlers do against Christian churches, homes, and businesses? Where's your concern for those Christians?

In fact, Palestinian Christians have put out many appeals to the world to help them in their situation. So where's the concern there? Here's a few links to get you started if you actually care.

1. Kairos Palestine organization's official site and their wikipedia page.

2. Palestinian Christians calling for sanctions against Israel (lemme guess, you didn't know that many Palestinian Christians support the BDS movement, did you?)

3. Home / News and Events / United Church of Christ News U.S., Palestinian Christian churches meet in historic gathering in pursuit of peace

So let's be real, you guys don't give a crap about Middle Eastern Christians. You only "care" about them when it fits your narratives. Otherwise, you'd be against the Middle Eastern wars since our wars have only made things worse for them, not better. Not to mention, the West's staunchest Middle Eastern allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia are directly and indirectly harming Middle Eastern Christians through their covert and overt actions.

So it shouldn't be surprising if Western ally and NATO member Turkey may also be about to cause harm to Middle Eastern Christians (though I have my doubts about this specific story). Turkey's also been attacking the Kurdish people during the Syrian Civil War and nobody's stopped them there, either. But lemme guess, you'll suddenly care about their plight when it fits the proper narrative, too (kind of like the random "support" for the Yazidis)?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Shiloh7

Is there ever going to be some form of sanctions against countries that prosecute [sic] Christians?

No. Just watch as all the Western Islamophiles turn both eyes blind to the terrible persecution Christians are about to endure in Turkey.

They hate Christianity, and don't give a damn about its adherents. The hypocrisy will be, as usual, stunning.

And, as usual, they will get away with it.

I don't understand why so many conservatives like to equate a desire to prevent discrimination towards Muslims to the full-blown advocacy of religious intolerance displayed by Muslim fundies.

I am against discrimination. I am against religious intolerance. Why is that so hard to wrap your head around for some of you?

When someone hates something, they don't need a reason for it. They only use reasons and arguments (the legal definition) so they can rationalize their position and convert others to their way of thinking. So even if 100 of their "reasons" are debunked, they'll just scurry off until they can find new "reasons".

To be blunt, they hate Muslims and Islam. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of us are peaceful, non-practicing of the faith, or just plain boring individuals (or live "exciting" or decadent party lifestyles). Their positions are set.

Just remember, the vast majority of the victims of those "fundies" are other Muslims. But that doesn't seem to matter either because it doesn't fit their narratives.

originally posted by: buckwhizzle
I'm sure that President Obama right now is formulating a plan to bring thousands of Christian refugees to the U.S.

I'll bet you he's not.

Unless Erdogan is removed from power the Secular State established by Ataturk will be dead. Turkey will become yet another fortress of Sunni totalitarianism, joining the likes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Unless Erdogan is removed from power the Secular State established by Ataturk will be dead. Turkey will become yet another fortress of Sunni totalitarianism, joining the likes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Which would be extremely bad for those living there.

And if he is removed, who do you think would remove him. Remember Egypt.. That didnt go over well. I am curious as to who would take over Turkey should Erdogan be turfed. another puppet Government placed by foreign hands? This is a concern.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Unless Erdogan is removed from power the Secular State established by Ataturk will be dead. Turkey will become yet another fortress of Sunni totalitarianism, joining the likes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar are Wahhabi strongholds, not Sunni strongholds. Wahhabis consider themselves "Salafis", which consist of the ultra-conservative followers of the supposed traditions from the time period of the Prophet Muhammad and his direct companions. Sunnis on the other hand, are a much larger umbrella group of sects that follow the Sunna, which wasn't written down until long after the Prophet Muhammad died. They also can follow various other traditions and rulings, as well as adopting some interpretations from other Abrahamic denominations and local traditions.

In short, Wahhabis and many modern Salafis consider Sunnis to be watered down "innovators", hence why they have no problems attacking and undermining actual Sunni communities and organizations. If you want to see more of a Sunni stronghold, look at northern Nigeria or Indonesia (which each have more Muslims than Saudi Arabia and Qatar combined, with Indonesia having 9-10 times more).

a reply to: Snarl

consigns himself to the Sands of Time.

It would be a much better world if all the really evil dictators were consigned to six feet under the sand... Unfortunately It is just not Islamic Turkey that has problems with christens either... However the apologist for Islam use every bad name in the book about Christens or Buddhist who have a problem with Islam... I know you see the same pattern I do... But it is to late, to little, to make real change for much of Europe and probably America too. Islam will take over a country simply by out breeding the locals .. Evidently someone wanted a one world religion to let this crap continue..

By the year 2100 (maybe 2060) I have to wonder what the religious demographics will look like unless there is much bloodshed and some kind of stupid holy war like in the olden days...

Since today's Islam is so preoccupied with religious affairs..... without the help of other countries selling and giving them technology.... their science and schools usually suck .... and I would take science over Mohammad any day... as far as a winning team.

I really am glad I am old and will hopefully not have to live to see what myself and others much more knowledgeable predict is coming.. Maybe it will start in Europe maybe not, my crystal ball may be on the fritz as well as theirs ?