Thermoelectric and Magneto-Caloric Effect to Cool the Exhaust in the new B-21 Stealth Bomber!

If your sources knew you were posting their chats with online, do you think would still tell you?

If the answer is no I would stop posting this.

Whilst I love to read potentially cutting edge science technology, I would hate to think it came at the end expense of a jail term and potential ruined life's for a family.

originally posted by: StargateSG7

What Bedlam is trying to illustrate is that generally Energy in = Energy out
and +/- radiative loss and +/- input loss from the heat pump mechanism itself.
I just happen disagree on the AMOUNT of input over the initial thermal energy
amount that needs moving say to move 30 watts between two places.

It can't be better than the Carnot limit. Peltier modules aren't even close, they're horribly inefficient. And again, the heat just doesn't vanish away, it can be put elsewhere but then you have even more to be rid of. There's a LOT of energy in jet engine exhaust. So it will be a LOT of energy to move somewhere, but in a jet fighter you don't have a lot of options. And then it takes even more energy than you're moving to move it. Since the primary energy source of a jet IS the exhaust, coming up with more energy than the jet exhaust is ...tough.

There's been a lot of work on passive cooling. If you heat up a lot of air a LITTLE bit, then it's hard to detect. You just don't want hot spots, because the 'brightness' of the hot spot is like a 4th power relationship with the ambient air temp. So a little hotter is a lot brighter.

One method of active cooling I've dropped the dime on very indirectly a couple of times. Basically, if you could take the waste energy and do...something...with it that's not aimed back or down, it's going to be hard to see.

And you might get something else out of it. Or maybe a few other things.

a reply to: StargateSG7

Yep.so basically b-21will have extra power for a nice lil Lazer gun

Always thought the Lady (Boscombe Downs) was more like this

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: StargateSG7

What Bedlam is trying to illustrate is that generally Energy in = Energy out
and +/- radiative loss and +/- input loss from the heat pump mechanism itself.
I just happen disagree on the AMOUNT of input over the initial thermal energy
amount that needs moving say to move 30 watts between two places.

It can't be better than the Carnot limit. Peltier modules aren't even close, they're horribly inefficient. And again, the heat just doesn't vanish away, it can be put elsewhere but then you have even more to be rid of. There's a LOT of energy in jet engine exhaust. So it will be a LOT of energy to move somewhere, but in a jet fighter you don't have a lot of options. And then it takes even more energy than you're moving to move it. Since the primary energy source of a jet IS the exhaust, coming up with more energy than the jet exhaust is ...tough.

There's been a lot of work on passive cooling. If you heat up a lot of air a LITTLE bit, then it's hard to detect. You just don't want hot spots, because the 'brightness' of the hot spot is like a 4th power relationship with the ambient air temp. So a little hotter is a lot brighter.

One method of active cooling I've dropped the dime on very indirectly a couple of times. Basically, if you could take the waste energy and do...something...with it that's not aimed back or down, it's going to be hard to see.

And you might get something else out of it. Or maybe a few other things.

---

I can't really counter any of your arguments because on a general basis
they are BASIC RULES of thermodynamic science and are ALMOST immutable.

All I can say is that a ceramic-based heat sink technology
SEEMS to be the primary method for a temporary storage
of thermal energy for infra-red signature reduction.

Other than what has been ROUGHLY OUTLINED to me,
I can only GUESS at some of the specific modalities of
it's actual workings. However, I CAN SAY WITH SOME
CERTAINTY that the B-21 and a companion craft have
had thermodynamic load modelling done on them
for optimizing thermal signature reduction via
an ACTIVE THERMAL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM!!!!

The literature is out there and Pratt & Whitney
and GE both SEEM to be at the forefront of such
active technology!

originally posted by: Forensick
If your sources knew you were posting their chats with online, do you think would still tell you?

If the answer is no I would stop posting this.

Whilst I love to read potentially cutting edge science technology, I would hate to think it came at the end expense of a jail term and potential ruined life's for a family.

---

My "Sources" are VERY WELL AWARE of what I am doing.
I also SUSPECT that such information transfer to me via
nebulous means such as hints, "napkin-drawings" and
general online chit-chat is DONE ON AN INTENTIONAL
BASIS from the internals of such organizations.

I also suspect that my information is PURPOSEFULLY
incomplete with SOME probable misdirection included
which is why I take some of it with a grain of salt.

AND FINALLY, I also suspect my information is being
used as a "Marketing Campaign" to ensure that certain
budgets and/or programs GET PROMOTED AND PASSED
on the hill.

It's all a cat and mouse game where information gleaners
like us who are mostly hobbyists want to find out about
and see "The Next Big Thing" and our activities are
monitored by the usual parties for For-and-Against
policy making! And since various agencies TEND to
be at odds WITH EACH OTHER (i.e. turf wars), I can't
really tell or figure out FROM WHO or HOW my information
gets to me.

I personally haven't YET received that mysterious brown
envelope with an encrypted set of JPEG photos on it yet
but if I do, I should also note that I'm C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N
LIVING IN CANADA and therefore YOUR legal system is
applicable ONLY to Americans and NOT to a living-in-Canada
"Pop Culture Journalist" like me (i DO have a Diploma in
Television Broadcast Operations so legally I CAN BE CONSIDERED
a journalist!) so it gets put on our conspiracy website when
I do get said photos!

And if the legal system of the US does try and push
the legal envelope, I will be invoking the First Amendment
(i.e. freedom of the press!) to get a few opinions and
injunctions of my own from a U.S. Federal court.

As the saying goes Time To Lawyer Up!

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: StargateSG7

What Bedlam is trying to illustrate is that generally Energy in = Energy out
and +/- radiative loss and +/- input loss from the heat pump mechanism itself.
I just happen disagree on the AMOUNT of input over the initial thermal energy
amount that needs moving say to move 30 watts between two places.

It can't be better than the Carnot limit. Peltier modules aren't even close, they're horribly inefficient. And again, the heat just doesn't vanish away, it can be put elsewhere but then you have even more to be rid of. There's a LOT of energy in jet engine exhaust. So it will be a LOT of energy to move somewhere, but in a jet fighter you don't have a lot of options. And then it takes even more energy than you're moving to move it. Since the primary energy source of a jet IS the exhaust, coming up with more energy than the jet exhaust is ...tough.

There's been a lot of work on passive cooling. If you heat up a lot of air a LITTLE bit, then it's hard to detect. You just don't want hot spots, because the 'brightness' of the hot spot is like a 4th power relationship with the ambient air temp. So a little hotter is a lot brighter.

One method of active cooling I've dropped the dime on very indirectly a couple of times. Basically, if you could take the waste energy and do...something...with it that's not aimed back or down, it's going to be hard to see.

And you might get something else out of it. Or maybe a few other things.

===

One modality of thermal energy movement is to CONVERT IT to microwave energy
and beam it BACK to a pickup vehicle which can be POWERED by the microwave beam
(i.e. Electric powered recon aircraft) so in essence you take the exhaust heat of the
PRIMARY CRAFT convert it to a "EM Beam" and power a higher flying secondary recon
craft, cruise missile or communications/ECM craft.

You could also pocket-heat parts of the atmosphere to create an Atmospheric Lens
so that other EM bands can use that "lens" to bounce or focus large amounts of other
EM energy for 3D ground penetrating radar purposes, long-range over-the-horizon
communications or for bouncing/focusing EM (lasers/microwaves) or even particle
beams into space for anti-satellite operations or to the ground or onto other
aircraft/ICBM/Cruise missiles/planes for eventual destruction.

Atmospheric lenses can also be used for TEMPORARY visual stealth because
you can create an artificial refractive index which hides or changes the look
of an aircraft that is continually heating parts of the atmosphere to form
visible-light lensing. However, I can KILL that sort of visual stealth by
using SOBEL EGDE DETECTION and RGB pixel inversion to find the path of
EDGE DISTORTIONS created by a continuously created atmospheric lens
and then fire a missile into the CENTRE of that found distorted area.
SOBEL EDGE DETECTION and RGB pixel inversion can also be used
to digital signal process radar waves to find the edge distortions
of Plasma Sheathed aircraft trying to be RADAR or ACOUSTICALLY
stealthy by mapping the incoming RADAR and ACOUSTIC data
onto an RGB bitmap based upon amplitude and frequency
and using a cheap but fancy graphics card (AMD S9150)
to DSP the edge distortions via visual means (SOBEL).

NOTE: I've personally designed and coded a BEAUTIFUL RGB INVERT
AND SOBEL EDGE DETECTION algorithm that does EXACTLY that
and it does even on a relatively cheap AMD Rage FURY X card
at 65,000+ objects per second at 120 fps. The more cards the
higher the frame rate! IT'S DEFINITELY BETTER AND MUCH HIGHER
PERFORMANCE than RAYTHEON's, NORTHRUP's or THALES radar technology!

---

I think Bedlam is hinting at plasma-dynamic sheathing which can be used for
Radar Stealth and as a medium for pushing the atmosphere out of the way
for making any plane enveloped in such a plasma sheath faster. You can also
create a PDWE (Pulse Detonation Wave Engine) from superheated gasses
OR you can create a virtual ScramJet out of the same.

In SOME CIRCLES I HAVE PERUSED, you could possibly create vectors
of influence where you literally allow a craft to be SUCKED into a specific
direction because certain pulsed EM radiation temporarily disables the
action of the Weak Force upon an aircraft envelope within a specific
cone of directionality. That paragraph is PURPOSEFULLY vague because
of it's source, but let's just say I have my knowledge that is absolutely
FIRST HAND high-level from an absolutely impeccable source at the
highest of levels.

originally posted by: StargateSG7

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: StargateSG7

What Bedlam is trying to illustrate is that generally Energy in = Energy out
and +/- radiative loss and +/- input loss from the heat pump mechanism itself.
I just happen disagree on the AMOUNT of input over the initial thermal energy
amount that needs moving say to move 30 watts between two places.

It can't be better than the Carnot limit. Peltier modules aren't even close, they're horribly inefficient. And again, the heat just doesn't vanish away, it can be put elsewhere but then you have even more to be rid of. There's a LOT of energy in jet engine exhaust. So it will be a LOT of energy to move somewhere, but in a jet fighter you don't have a lot of options. And then it takes even more energy than you're moving to move it. Since the primary energy source of a jet IS the exhaust, coming up with more energy than the jet exhaust is ...tough.

There's been a lot of work on passive cooling. If you heat up a lot of air a LITTLE bit, then it's hard to detect. You just don't want hot spots, because the 'brightness' of the hot spot is like a 4th power relationship with the ambient air temp. So a little hotter is a lot brighter.

One method of active cooling I've dropped the dime on very indirectly a couple of times. Basically, if you could take the waste energy and do...something...with it that's not aimed back or down, it's going to be hard to see.

And you might get something else out of it. Or maybe a few other things.

===

One modality of thermal energy movement is to CONVERT IT to microwave energy
and beam it BACK to a pickup vehicle which can be POWERED by the microwave beam
(i.e. Electric powered recon aircraft) so in essence you take the exhaust heat of the
PRIMARY CRAFT convert it to a "EM Beam" and power a higher flying secondary recon
craft, cruise missile or communications/ECM craft.

You could also pocket-heat parts of the atmosphere to create an Atmospheric Lens
so that other EM bands can use that "lens" to bounce or focus large amounts of other
EM energy for 3D ground penetrating radar purposes, long-range over-the-horizon
communications or for bouncing/focusing EM (lasers/microwaves) or even particle
beams into space for anti-satellite operations or to the ground or onto other
aircraft/ICBM/Cruise missiles/planes for eventual destruction.

Atmospheric lenses can also be used for TEMPORARY visual stealth because
you can create an artificial refractive index which hides or changes the look
of an aircraft that is continually heating parts of the atmosphere to form
visible-light lensing. However, I can KILL that sort of visual stealth by
using SOBEL EGDE DETECTION and RGB pixel inversion to find the path of
EDGE DISTORTIONS created by a continuously created atmospheric lens
and then fire a missile into the CENTRE of that found distorted area.
SOBEL EDGE DETECTION and RGB pixel inversion can also be used
to digital signal process radar waves to find the edge distortions
of Plasma Sheathed aircraft trying to be RADAR or ACOUSTICALLY
stealthy by mapping the incoming RADAR and ACOUSTIC data
onto an RGB bitmap based upon amplitude and frequency
and using a cheap but fancy graphics card (AMD S9150)
to DSP the edge distortions via visual means (SOBEL).

NOTE: I've personally designed and coded a BEAUTIFUL RGB INVERT
AND SOBEL EDGE DETECTION algorithm that does EXACTLY that
and it does even on a relatively cheap AMD Rage FURY X card
at 65,000+ objects per second at 120 fps. The more cards the
higher the frame rate! IT'S DEFINITELY BETTER AND MUCH HIGHER
PERFORMANCE than RAYTHEON's, NORTHRUP's or THALES radar technology!

---

I think Bedlam is hinting at plasma-dynamic sheathing which can be used for
Radar Stealth and as a medium for pushing the atmosphere out of the way
for making any plane enveloped in such a plasma sheath faster. You can also
create a PDWE (Pulse Detonation Wave Engine) from superheated gasses
OR you can create a virtual ScramJet out of the same.

In SOME CIRCLES I HAVE PERUSED, you could possibly create vectors
of influence where you literally allow a craft to be SUCKED into a specific
direction because certain pulsed EM radiation temporarily disables the
action of the Weak Force upon an aircraft envelope within a specific
cone of directionality. That paragraph is PURPOSEFULLY vague because
of it's source, but let's just say I have my knowledge that is absolutely
FIRST HAND high-level from an absolutely impeccable source at the
highest of levels.

iam sure if we looked in to parents in the last 10 years we can come to some understanding of how this system works......if at all this is not misinformation!!!

a reply to: Slys13

The company I work for does this type of aerospace work
in Canada (software and hardware) so NONE of this is
conjecture. Masers, Lasers, Vectorizing Edge detection
systems, rail guns, 3D printed rocket motors, fully automous
32-camera 360 degree 4k live surround-view drones, submersible
drone systems, grid-based and GPU supercomputing, CPU-chipmaking,
we have got it all here !!!!!

None of the stuff I have outlined is surprising to me
and it is VERY VERY REAL !!!!!

a reply to: StargateSG7


In case anywone wonders what I'm talking about
in regards to the Weak Force, there is the scientific
definition of the Electro-Weak Interaction force
which plays a role in fission and more specifically
beta decay.

There is a supposition in certain circles that the
Weak interaction can carry a significant amount
of energy over a small distance and that energy
carry can be "harvested" indirectly as a propulsive
mechanism.

See link:
en.wikipedia.org...

As per my sources, it is posited that plasma sheathing
may allow the Weak Interaction (short term energy carry)
to INTERFERE with the permutation/action of gravity upon
any such plasma-shielded craft in the VECTOR (i.e. Delta-V)
of that interaction.

This could allow for a craft to "Fall Into a Cone of
Influence" AWAY from where Gravity does NOT
exist or interact with said craft.

So in effect a craft can be propelled to
FALL AWAY FROM an area where gravity
does NOT exist into an area where it DOES exist.
Kinda like how a vacuum cleaner works but
on a quantum-chromodyanmics scale.

A computer would manipulate the
sheathing to vary the zone of
Weak Interaction via manipulation
of Plasma Sheathing and the craft
SINKS upwards or downwards
TOWARD where gravity DOES exist.

Modern computers could vary the sheathing
at milliseconds and less timetables to vary
the DEGREE of sheathing which then causes
an energy carry via the Weak Interaction which
then INTERFERES with Gravity Propogation which
causes the aerospace craft to FALL AWAY FROM
areas of NO gravitational interaction into areas
where there IS gravitional interaction.

That's the theory anyways......

===

It could also explain the colourful corona mentioned
by many "observers" of "UFO's" where large amounts
of energy are being moved about and dissipated
at Planck's level scales (i.e. glowing plasma) thus
INTERFERING with the ability of gravitational
forces to interact upon said UFO and COULD
account for the fanastic changes of speed
and direction of said observed UFO's.

You could say they aren't flying INTO
the sky but rather FALLING UPWARDS
AND ABOUT as multiple forces STRONGLY interact
on the opposite side of the Weak Force Interaction!

originally posted by: darksidius
a reply to: StargateSG7
I stay on my opinion , it's a mistake to go slow , now with the mobile launcher you need speed to go on the theater, if your bomber take hours after hours after hours to come the objectif have move since a lot , do you think the ennemy will stay at the same place ten hours after firing ? Don't you think the bomber need dash to escape the futur 5th gen ennemy squadron ?

They have a fast mover solution for that scenario..

originally posted by: grey580
Oh and what companion plane are they talking about now?

We talking green lady?

Doubt it. Probably the RQ-180 with an exotic engine..

I thought the only way to actually remove heat was for a chemical reaction to pull heat from the surroundings to complete the reaction.

For example, making home made ice cream with salted ice.

Might that second not yet mentioned aircraft
look something like this ?
theaviationist.com...

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
Might that second not yet mentioned aircraft
look something like this ?
theaviationist.com...

====

Here's 3 other POSSIBLE designs for what MIGHT have been seen in the wild blue yonder:

possible OLD 80's era Manta/Avenger follow-on?
files.abovetopsecret.com...

90's era Carrer capable craft:
files.abovetopsecret.com...

Speedy pointy-nosed high flyer recon:
files.abovetopsecret.com...

I've shown these on other threads but thought
i'd re-introduce them here for your enjoyment.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: darksidius
a reply to: StargateSG7
I stay on my opinion , it's a mistake to go slow , now with the mobile launcher you need speed to go on the theater, if your bomber take hours after hours after hours to come the objectif have move since a lot , do you think the ennemy will stay at the same place ten hours after firing ? Don't you think the bomber need dash to escape the futur 5th gen ennemy squadron ?

They have a fast mover solution for that scenario..

---

Curious question:

What's the difference between a "Fast Mover" and a "Fast Walker"?
They are codenames i've heard used in certain scenarios but I never
did get to ask as the "Operators" at the time what they meant by
those terms. I understand they are NOT interchangeable terms!
They have very different meanings.....!!!

What is YOUR understanding of those terms?

a reply to: StargateSG7

To the best of my knowledge, "Fast Walkers" refer to unknown craft (UFOs) that traverse across the sky in low orbit.
"Fast Movers" are exotic, presumably black budget craft.

A very general guesstimate explanation as
to WHY Macro-scale Plasma Sheathing and
Heat Extraction MAY allow aircraft or
spacecraft to be INDIRECTLY propelled
via Planck's-scale 'Weak Force Interactions":

===

The weak force allows atoms to fission and to
become radioactive. The fundamental actions
that cause fission and beta decay are PROBABLY
quark charge/spin changes that are caused by
EVEN MORE FUNDAMENTAL forces at play.

In order for fission to happen, energy must be
carried a short distance and at macroscopic
scales and that energy carry can be significant
to such a point that the underlying mechanisms
causing Gravity, Electromagnetism and the
Strong Force are either interfered with
or otherwise temporarily REDUCED.

It is posited in some circles that a plasma sheathing
and/or the pulsing of an EM field can cause the
Weak Force to carry energy over a short distance
filling the "In-Between" space of macroscopic scale
matter to such a level that "gravity" and electromagnetism
especially may be PREVENTED from acting upon the
larger object such as a plasma-sheathed aircraft.

The Strong Force binds nucleii together
(i.e. protons and neutrons) and the weak force
is the literal steel wedge that can go in-between
the nucleii components so as to allow the
Strong Force to be LIMITED on a time-wise
basis so that radioactive decay and fission can occur.

It's action is LIMITED OVER DISTANCE AND TIME
BUT the sheer AMOUNT of energy that it carries
in order to allow it MITIGATE the Strong Force
can be ENORMOUS and therefore PREVENT
gravity from propogating through those areas
where such binding energies are being
carried from nucleii to nucleii.

The measureable physics are highly unreliable
at these scales so these are only GUESSES as
to what happens but it is LIKELY one of a few
reasonable estimates what might be actually
happening. The SIDE EFFECT of weak force
energy carry is that gravity can't get through
it while it's doing it's work and therefore
indirectly it can be used as a means of
aircraft/spacecraft propulsion.