Not a Believer, But Jesus was a Great Teacher

a reply to: pthena

Uhhhhhh . . . no.

Paul did NOT write "generations" before the Gospels were written.

ALL the Gospels were written within the lifetimes of the observers of the events.

Any nonsense otherwise is cheap shot blather not worthy the name of "scholarship" regardless of who's name is on it with whatever biased degrees.

Besides all that . . . Paul was taught personally by Christ Himself &/or Christ's Holy Spirit the 3 years in the wilderness.

Paul's personal sufferings FOR THE CAUSE OF CHRIST . . . are fiercely authentic and reliable testimonies of the truth of what Paul wrote.

It is CONCEIVABLE that someone would suffer excruciatingly for THE TRUTH as they observed it, KNEW IT.

It is not so conceivable that someone would repeatedly suffer excruciatingly for a lie.

a reply to: BO XIAN

That's not really the topic of the thread. For what it's worth, I don't despise Paul. Whether I want to constrain myself within his worldview is another matter.

The thread topic is more in line with: now I'd like to see Buzzywigs back up her claim that Jesus was a wise sage, apart from reference to Christianity.

ETA

I'm going to take a break for a while and watch a children's movie about kittens.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thankfully more than 500 saw him alive after the Resurrection.

This is "historical fiction" - with no hard evidence whatsoever.

Actually, it's the writing of Apostle Paul. His testimony. Some time in his travels he heard that. He repeats it.
The apostle Paul wrote generations before the gospels were written. As far as reliability goes for Christians, he is the most reliable source.

Personally, I like to entertain the idea that the book of Luke and Acts was written by Plutarch , or least based on Plutarch's Parable.

a reply to: windword

Thank you.

I've been wondering what people mean by Nazarene. And I'd heard about the Plutarch theory. neo-Pythagorean philosophy huh?

The Sacred Knowledge of the Secret of Light as the foundation of Creation traveled the underground stream from the Egyptian mystery schools to the mystery schools of Greece until it was forced deep underground by the "Official Church" for almost two thousand years. It is the Sacred Number, 432, that identifies "Luke" and "Plutarch" as members of the neo-Pythagorean movement that became Christianity. The Victors in the second, third and forth centuries were supporters of Paul's doctrines that kept power in the hands of the government leaders and temple priests. The Victors were the enemies of the Nazarenes. With Paul as their inspiration, they created a corrupted form of the neo-Pythagorean philosophy espoused by Jesus the Nazarene. It remains "Orthodox" today.

But it is from the root of that tree, the Nazarene's Tree of Life, that Christianity had its genesis. And it is to that Tree of Life that the Christian world must return if it is to find the Salvation sought.

The irony though, not that I'm against irony, if Plutarch who had Imperial connections, and wrote what surely seems a favorable story of Paul, yet there's a neo-Pythagorean philosophy and a corrupted version. I'll have to read up on that, since Nazarene views seem to be coming forward.

a reply to: pthena

It's fascinating stuff. I always need a long nap after delving into Plutarch's works.

a reply to: pthena

Plutarch/Luke was an aristocrat that was commissioned to write the gospel and Acts under the pseudonym "Luke" in my opinion. Plutarch's Roman name was Lucius, a.k.a. Luke.

I believe Plutarch was familiar with the truth and coded the truth into his two works in order to either hide it in plain sight from the authorities or to help the authorities initiate future initiates into the mysteries. Either scenario is likely, but I choose to believe he did it against the wishes of the authorities because I tend to believe there are some who are good people that are put in tough situations.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So would you say then that the wisdom of Jesus, his sage-ness, is not evident in the canonical Gospels, at least not openly, but rather in his association with a mystery school?

a reply to: pthena

He did say that he spoke in parables but then again he also taught some very basic lessons, so I'd say it's a little of both.

I personally tend to believe that Jesus is an archetype rather than a flesh and blood man, he represents what humanity is on the most fundamental level and is what all of humanity should strive to be. We are all the image of God and light of the world and we should all make our light shine bright through actions of love and humility.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Akragon

The same way most believe that they do... belong

So there are two hypothetical groups of people.

1) I am at home in this World(Mother, perhaps for some).

2) I am not at home in this World, I will depart for a more perfect home.

Is there a value judgment that you place between one group and another? one is enlightened/one is not, or one tends to selfishness/the other does not, or one is good for the World/the other is not? Those sorts of value judgments. Those are merely examples I can imagine.

Nah.... Just one group

Spirit in a meat stick... experiencing

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Thank you.

I find this very wise since this is a perfect example of loving the potential of a soul to do good but sometimes hating the corruption humanity have created.

So you see a dichotomy of soul/physical ? Does the soul then represent inclination to goodness and the physical a badness/crippledness/restraint ?

Believers usually call this passage Cost of Discipleship, that one should realize and weigh the cost before committing.

I like your signature!

Sort of reminds me of the time I waded through Augustine's two volume work on Trinity. If such a huge book is required to explain it, then maybe there's something a bit other than self evident being discussed.

. I believe souls evolve just like a consciousness evolves only slower. Different souls have different level of awareness and strength of will that they have mastered.

The will to do good and evil is in consciousness not body. The body itself with the right soul affecting the conscious mind riding along will do no harm. The same body with another soul affecting the conscious mind riding along will cause much suffering.

Earth is in between. Not fully corrupted but not uncorrupted either. Psychics people do get dark thoughts surfacing to the conscious mind sometimes when they encounter the corruption. But normally they have the tools they need and the strength of knowing what they are to easily handle the intrusion. Teaching the body/mind to push/pull light/chi into itself is a good start.

I like your signature!

Sort of reminds me of the time I waded through Augustine's two volume work on Trinity. If such a huge book is required to explain it, then maybe there's something a bit other than self evident being discussed.

My speciality is logic so I have a big problem with cognitive dissonance.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus is an archetype rather than a flesh and blood man, he represents what humanity is on the most fundamental level and is what all of humanity should strive to be.

So the name Jesus is assigned to an abstract concept, "Ideal Man". What an actual man Jesus may have said or done becomes irrelevant. It is the imagination of men which is important.

"What would Jesus do?" filtered through the abstract concept means, "If I, in the present context, would like to act perfectly, what should I do?"

Back in the day, the big debate was between two groups of Christians. One group saying, "The important thing is Jesus is our Savior". The other group saying, "The important thing is Jesus is our Example." Both groups operated upon the supposition that Jesus was perfect. One group stressed the perfect fulfillment of Law by Jesus as salvific(able to save). The other group stressed perfect fulfilment of the Law by Jesus as example, so that they too, by following his example may fulfill the Law (and thus be saved).

Some people looking at the Gospels say, "He broke the letter of the Law, but fulfilled the Spirit of the Law, therefore the Spirit of the Law is what is important."

Now I have read the Law and the Prophets many times. This is what I understand to be the Spirit of the Law and the Prophets:

"Special chosen people will be the ones to enjoy all the benefits this World has to offer. Their part is to destroy all opposition which stands in their way, then they will be given all good things of the World." Spirit of the Law and the Prophets in a nutshell.

Jesus said, "The meek shall inherit the Earth." That statement seems to be a direct contradiction to all that the Law and the Prophets stand for. Is this wisdom?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: CJCrawley

Nonsense.

Your post merely illustrates the very flawed nature of your own research.

How enlightening.

Would you care to argue your case, or did you just want to blow a raspberry at something you don't like the sound of?

"Love your enemies" is a wise teaching of the Gospel attributed to a Nazarene named Yeshua who is admired by so called unbelievers and believers alike. I find the ones called unbelievers to know more about this Yeshua bar Yosef who was called the Messiah and True Prophet because he taught a universal message that can apply more if you think he was mythologized and not a historic person or maybe a real person but not God in the flesh.

"The Kingdom of God is within"

Also, because it means that you don't have to search for God the Creator or think yourself a sinner unworthy of greatness because we are of "God" and life is "God" and we have been given great gifts from this phenomenon called life. "God" is everything and everywhere.

a reply to: ZoeEleutheria

Welcome to ATS

...universal message
...
"The Kingdom of God is within"
...
don't have to search for God the Creator or think yourself a sinner unworthy of greatness because we are of "God"

Do you consider that universal kingdom within outweighs any teaching ascribed to Yeshua bar Yosef which speaks of lost/saved, blessed/doomed, welcomed/cast out into outer darkness, wide road/narrow path, life/destruction, and other such dichotomies?

a reply to: CJCrawley

I get enough raspberries . . . I have plenty to share.

And, at my age, I try to avoid too many exercises in futility . . . particularly with folks who don't demonstrate a significant amount of earnest fair-mindedness and sincere curiosity.

The packs of rabid wolves hereon have left me more than a bit . . . toughened . . . toward absurdities.

And, there's plenty of stuff on the net for those truly searching for truth.

I'm comfortable discussing reality as I experience it and construe it . . . and suggesting directions for further investigation on the part of those truly interested in searching out honest and reliable truth.

Vain pissing contests no longer excite me at all . . . if they ever did.

When folks show no experience with or fair-mindedness toward the solid research of the likes of

Josh McDowell,

Investigative journalist Lee Strobel

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468955112&sr=8-1&keywords=Josh+McDowell

www.amazon.com...=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=51kNXtQRFOL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_SL 500_SR87%2C135_&psc=1&refRID=Y8B2X8DZ4X6QZDGXPHMA

browser problems . . . later

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: ZoeEleutheria

Welcome to ATS

...universal message
...
"The Kingdom of God is within"
...
don't have to search for God the Creator or think yourself a sinner unworthy of greatness because we are of "God"

Do you consider that universal kingdom within outweighs any teaching ascribed to Yeshua bar Yosef which speaks of lost/saved, blessed/doomed, welcomed/cast out into outer darkness, wide road/narrow path, life/destruction, and other such dichotomies?

I do not, no. I don't know what teachings come from who in reality, no one does.

It's probably the most profound of his teachings though, he definitely wasn't the first to teach though it is an ancient proverb said to originate with Thoth.

Faith moves mountains is another good one, applicable to everyone and of course not literal moving of mountains but who hasn't experienced the power of believing in something, usually their self, making all the difference between success and failure?

a reply to: ZoeEleutheria

don't know what teachings come from who in reality, no one does.

I guess I'm as limited as any other (except maybe super genius scholars) when it comes to who said what first or what specific aspect of what particular philosophy influenced the writings contained in a certain piece of writing.

Thank you.

a reply to: Raggedyman

He is a fool because, despite (christ)iantiy being the #1 religion, the world is still in chaos.

Jesus went through all that trouble for nothing.

a reply to: blueman12

Evidently you don't know much about Jesus/Yeshua; Who He was and is and what He taught . . . nor about The Script for our era.

Sad, that.

It's all in The Book. For those truly seeking The Truth.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: ZoeEleutheria

don't know what teachings come from who in reality, no one does.

I guess I'm as limited as any other (except maybe super genius scholars) when it comes to who said what first or what specific aspect of what particular philosophy influenced the writings contained in a certain piece of writing.

Thank you.

Your welcome. I think that people who already know even would be surprised at the control of these people called scholars (and scientists). Unless they want to have to go find another career they will agree to certain things that are not true being true in public. Dates especially are beyond provable without archeology and with still a guess. But certainty is pronounced anyway.

My favorite quote of Jesus is by far, now that I think of it, "Do not believe them." Out of context and in context it is pure wisdom.