Why are we waiting on disclosure?

Glad i could spark such a lively talk but to be honest, alot of you say that they (aliens) are already here but i just dont see them. I would personally like for them to come on out and reveal themselves to me or the world rather but just to me is fine. dont need to everyone else to believe me if it happened, i would likely tell no one. I personally believe we are alone in the universe. I know that alot of you would disagree but hear me out.

If you were the only and i mean ONLY person in North America. And the closest person to you lived in the middle of Russia somewhere (you dont know but your evidence says that someone lives there for sure). Isnt that the same thing as being the only person alive in the world? If you will never see that person whats the point of even caring hes there. Espcially if there nothing he/she can do to affect your life or the rest of it. Kind of pessimistic but very well likely our case.

I want there to be aliens just so i have hope of leaving this rock one day for good. Really hate this planet 99% of the time.
a reply to: Peeple
YES! I will threaten to throw Arby's diarrhea in to there face and huge eyeballs. IF i dont get my super powers. I dont have anything to lose at that point and i dont think their bodies are adapted for the hell that is Arby's poop. Ours can barely handle it.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Rosinitiate

There are a vast number of sub-intelligences involved, all of which want different things.

We are not discussing a unified, singular intelligence.

That's why the "enigma" can't be "solved" like other enigmas.

To compound the confusion, humans don't have a unified, singular intelligence either.

So you have two groups, one human, one evolved from organic matter a very long
time ago, with conflicting interests and no major leaders, bouncing off of each
other---mostly blindly.

In my observation.

Kev

But isn't that the solution to the enigma? "We are not discussing a unified, singular intelligence".

I would add with limited access and no endless personnel to give everybody their own "detail".
Maybe they never were organic, found a plasma, quantum, or whatever niche to evolve from?

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Some of the best researchers out there have already concluded: they're here, always have been, always will be, do not originate from another planet and morph their appearance and behavior to match the current generational social construct.

In other words, it seems as though, even if we were capable of nailing down exactly what we think they are they wouldn't be that anymore.

Personally, I liken them to the controllers of the control system. i highly doubt they have any desire to give you the things that you want.

You keep using the term 'best researcher'. In the UFO field at this present time I'm not sure how you can use such a term seeing as no research to the best of my knowledge has established anything other than things have been seen in the sky that at a given point in time could not be identified. Anything beyond that is nothing but speculation.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Whelp, I shoulda simply stopped at Vallee however, I figured it would be helpful to offer others who share the same opinion. Lumping them together doesn't do Vallee or Hynek justice, just didn't want to come across as a Vallee fan boy.

Don't suppose you have any thoughts regarding the discussion on these UFO's you'd care to share?

Yes Hynek and Vallee were good researchers. More UFOs were identified than not, but a core group remained which couldn't be identified.

originally posted by: uncommitted
You keep using the term 'best researcher'. In the UFO field at this present time I'm not sure how you can use such a term seeing as no research to the best of my knowledge has established anything other than things have been seen in the sky that at a given point in time could not be identified. Anything beyond that is nothing but speculation.

I agree with Rosinitiate that Hynek and Vallee were good researchers, so I have no objection to that characterization.

However I agree with the rest of what you said that they confirmed some UFOs couldn't be identified, and yes whatever they believe the unidentified objects to be is speculative. You can't say "I don't know what they are, therefore I know what they are, they are...______ (fill in the blank with interdimensional beings, aliens, time travelers, or whatever). You can change that to "I don't know what they are. Here's my guess:______".

Here's mine. I don't know what the UFOs are. But if you take the Yukon case, it was listed as one of the top ten best UFO cases ever because there were multiple witnesses, all confirming some kind of extraordinary observation of a UFO. The case remained unsolved for years, until finally we came across some information that allowed us to identify which planet the giant mothership people saw was from. I suspect that with enough information about the case (good photography for example, and good records of other things which might contribute to sightings as happened in the Yukon case), most UFOs could be identified. However there would still be some unidentifed due to phenomena we still don't fully understand yet, as in for example the JAL1628 case which was the result of several factors, one of them likely an unusual and not well understood atmospheric phenomenon.

Are there alien space ships visiting us? Or time travelers? Or interdimensional visitors? I don't even know what interdimensional means outside of string theory where the extra dimensions are so compact you can't see them, so it's a non-physical theory, you might as well say they are "gods" or "magical beings" if you're calling them "interdimensional". While I can't rule out alien visitation and I suspect that alien life forms are abundant, we have no way yet to send our life forms to other star systems, though we might be able to send robots. Hynek calls this "temporal bias" and he's right, that just because we don't have this technology doesn't mean we never will and it doesn't mean aliens don't already have it. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that time will solve the problems with life forms attempting interstellar travel.

If you want to speculate about future technology that's beyond what we know is it any less reasonable to speculate about time travel than interstellar travel? I haven't seen anything to convince me any UFOs were aliens or time travelers, but my point is to ask why people jump to the aliens conclusion where there are other alternative possibilities like time travelers, etc.

So the story is, if it's unidentified, that's the end of the story until it's identified. We don't know what it was/is.

By the way disclosure documents from the 1950s showed that officials had no idea what some of the UFOs were either, and they contemplated the possibility of aliens along with other possibilities. I don't think they know any more now than they did then about some unexplained cases, though I'm sure they have identified some cases still classified as secret military projects, but that can't explain them all.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I totally agree with your post. I guess where I was going is in most fields the 'best researchers' don't just package up findings and present a postulation for which given the information at hand has no real foundation.

In this OP we have moved from - as you describe - things are often seen but for which the observer has no explanation at the point of witnessing (the only point of research we really have), to all manner of 'they live amongst us' to hyper dimensional blah blah blah'... none of which can be backed up by fact, more it seems by wish fulfilment. To me that would make a 'best researcher' into let's say cancer, as someone who said 'I've weighed up all my research and cancer can be cured by eating a carrot a day'. The difference between the two is that the latter would very quickly be shouted out as talking nonsense, while the former tends to grow a cult like following because some people like their conclusions even if they can't actually prove them in anything approaching a meaningful way.

Anyhow, I think we are loosely talking the same thing.

a reply to: uncommitted

'I've weighed up all my research and cancer can be cured by eating a carrot a day'.

Hey I like that conclusion too! Bugs Bunny is still fit and healthy isn't he? What else can the elixir of life be if it ain't those carrots!

a reply to: Peeple

It's possible that at some point "energy beings" no longer need ANY contact with organic critters and can evolve and thrive without "us".

I'm saying that's how it started way back..

Are there hyper-evolved beings which need nothing to do with any type of organics? Almost certainly.

Look at Earth.

Proto single cell life is like 4 billion years old.
Multicellular life is like 3 billion years old.

It's anybody's guess how long it took (if it did.. it's a hypothesis) for "engergy species" to
evolve.. I'm presuming quite a bit later.. perhaps in the time of dinosaurs.. as I'm postulating
quite a lot of neural complexity being required to help foster such a jump in evolution.

Now of course, one could postulate that the Universe is full of "energy species" which evolved
from the first complex organic life, billions of years ago.

Then, as per the Fermi Paradox, these "energy species" radiated out and populated much of
the known Universe.

However I'd say, that if a planet already had "precursor organics", that such "galactic/universal scale"
"energy species would leave such a planet alone.. to let their "primitive energy cousins" continue
co-evolving with "gods/founders (us)".

Now we make really pathetic "gods" and "founders" ... not even knowing what we are, nor our place
in the Universe. But that's besides the point.

We are effectively quarantined from the intelligent species of the Universe (the "energy enclaves")
in my very hypothetical observation.

Kev

There are no aliens. That makes "disclosure" really difficult.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: uncommitted

'I've weighed up all my research and cancer can be cured by eating a carrot a day'.

Hey I like that conclusion too! Bugs Bunny is still fit and healthy isn't he? What else can the elixir of life be if it ain't those carrots!

Sadly, Mel Blanc may not agree.......

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Peeple


Then, as per the Fermi Paradox, these "energy species" radiated out and populated much of
the known Universe.


Kev

I'm sorry, which part of the Fermi Paradox says anything of the sort? Fairly sure it doesn't and instead is a counter argument to the Drake equation.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
There are no aliens. That makes "disclosure" really difficult.

Disclosing that there are no aliens would be just as funny as disclosing that there are aliens. If the former is the absolute truth, then hundreds of people are lying out their arses on a daily basis and everything is fake. If the later is the absolute truth.... errr what I said for the former still apply, just that maybe a couple of those people arent lying.

originally posted by: Spacespider
We will not disclosure anything anytime soon, we are still in quarantine.
The Terran race (us) was once a feared race in the universe among others.
We where became a threat to the stability risk of the galactic order with our warships and technology.

The other races choose to imprison us on this pale blue planet, they do not want to eradicate us just to keep us isolated from the galactic order.

Earth is a prison planet and our "souls" are trapped to this planet and our memories are erased.
Other races keep their memories when reborn.

Our memory is taken away from us, and we are being kept here until we change to the better
We have been given a second chance.. but its a chance in chains and single life memory.

Interesting, I've entertained a very similar scenario. I disagree with the logic though. If these beings REALLY want us to wake the hell up and evolve why are our memories erased Everytime we are reborn on earth. . . . . Seems to me doing that is one of the reasons we remain the greedy fearful and violent children the human is as a whole. I think there are multiple concerned parties involved. Some benevolent some very much NOT.

originally posted by: 191stMIDET

originally posted by: Spacespider
We will not disclosure anything anytime soon, we are still in quarantine.
The Terran race (us) was once a feared race in the universe among others.
We where became a threat to the stability risk of the galactic order with our warships and technology.

The other races choose to imprison us on this pale blue planet, they do not want to eradicate us just to keep us isolated from the galactic order.

Earth is a prison planet and our "souls" are trapped to this planet and our memories are erased.
Other races keep their memories when reborn.

Our memory is taken away from us, and we are being kept here until we change to the better
We have been given a second chance.. but its a chance in chains and single life memory.

Interesting, I've entertained a very similar scenario. I disagree with the logic though. If these beings REALLY want us to wake the hell up and evolve why are our memories erased Everytime we are reborn on earth. . . . . Seems to me doing that is one of the reasons we remain the greedy fearful and violent children the human is as a whole. I think there are multiple concerned parties involved. Some benevolent some very much NOT.

Well perhaps the reason to that is the same reason if anyone was in the knowing would NOT want disclosure.. because it would be all bad news for all of us, and why risk fire in the streets.

The scary truth could be that the "galactic federation" or what ever they are called don´t want us to evolve why take the risk we become what they dislike once more, perhaps earth is truly a eternal prison for the criminals.. and we have been sentence to stay this way forever.

Perhaps some rebellion alien race will free us from this prison planet, free our memory release the feared terran race again