Family declares war on off-duty cop in road rage shooting

I have made the case many times that we are not doing our LEOs any favors by turning them into thugs with a badge and a gun and a license to kill. Taking a life is brutal on the heart and the soul. Our LEOs deserve better than that. MUCH better.

What's it going to take? Maybe folks will pay a little more attention when natural law takes over. Specifically, the survival instinct. We can cry "comply! comply!" all we want, but sometimes folks cannot "comply" through no fault of their own... and when folks know that their lives are in danger, instinct takes over... fight or flight. And when you have nowhere to run... and nowhere to hide... and the police are your enemies... Then it's just fight.

We MUST do better.

Family declares war on off-duty cop in road rage shooting

The family of a Brooklyn man shot dead by an off-duty cop during a road-rage incident demanded Tuesday that the officer be charged in the killing — or they’ll “hunt him down” themselves.

Zoe Dempsey, the 23-year-old niece of slain dad Delrawn Small, said, “We will seek our justice’’ — and get violent if necessary.

I am not in any way, shape or form condoning such vengeance.

But I do understand that this a natural -- and EXPECTED -- reaction to the threat so many people feel from LEOs who would shoot first and ask questions later. Goose... gander. If cops feel "scared" for their lives because Joe Blow might have a gun, you can bet Joe Blow will be even more scared for because they know Joe Officer has a gun and is ready to use it.

Especially knowing that Joe Officer has to little fear from the consequences of killing Joe Blow; whereas Joe Blow knows he'll face the ultimate consequences for killing Joe Officer. Who has more to lose? Not Joe Officer.

The most dangerous people in the world are those with everything to lose... or nothing to lose.

What can we do about it? Here are a few suggestions:

• Better defensive training for all LEOs, starting with how NOT to create a volatile situation, and how to de-escalate volatile situations, etc., but most of all stop training LEOs that we are their enemy!!!
  
• Provide best defensive equipment impossible, such as bulletproof vests/body armor -- what else?
  
• Dash and body cams with audio -- automatically activated, and preferably live streaming for public viewing and download (which protects the LEOs at least as much as the public)
  
• Steroid testing -- not random testing, but at supervisor's discretion with probable cause, and especially after an officer-involved shooting
  
• Immediate removal of officer from scene
  
• Immediate statement taken from officer -- and released to the public (along with video/audio)
  
• Immediate suspension of officer without pay pending investigation
  
• Improved initial psychological testing for recruits; minimum 100 IQ required.
  
• Improved ongoing psychological counseling for possible depression, PTSD, and other mental/emotional hazards of the job

That's all I've got. Please -- PLEASE -- add to the list. We need solutions and we need them yesterday.

I would especially like to hear from the LEOs on the site. What do you need to be safer? What would help you do your job better? What do you want civilians to know?

Where i come from, this is common. We take care of our own around here, although the gentrification has progressed quite a bit in my life time.

I have no problem with that sort of thing. We can only rely on the law when the law provides equal protection. since it obviously doesn't, then our only option is to provide our own protection while seeking to reinstate the rule of law in the US.

No more internal affairs investigations. Citizen review panels with complete transparency.

Drug testing for all drugs and alcohol abuse....not just steroids.

No camera confiscation with resulting destruction of evidence.

Prosecution of LEOs for crimes the same as ordinary citizens, no preferential treatment

Law enforcement administration held accountable for officers conduct.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Here in Arizona too. LE pretty much expects people to be armed, but they don't assume everyone is a criminal. My police chief has said publicly and to me personally that the citizens are their partners... that we all have to work together to keep our town safe. It's a very different mindset -- with a profound result. Cooperation and respect.

a reply to: olaru12

Excellent! Thank you!!!

When the thread starts dying down, I'll compile all the suggestions into a comment -- starting with yours!

originally posted by: olaru12
Law enforcement administration held accountable for officers conduct.

This is the big one. Without some sort of union or personal accountability these jacked up nudniks always have the private citizen to bail them out with civil judgements. If the jerkoff in question was in danger of losing their home and their savings they may be a little more reluctant to flat blast everyone/thing they encounter.

a reply to: Kester

I understand why... and there is certainly no virtue in letting bad people do bad things... so I'm not judging.

But we can do better and we must do better in other ways regardless.

Just one question.

Do we have at least 2 sides to this story?

a reply to: FaunaOrFlora

And I'll add "it's about damn time".

I won't say that... but I will say they've been pushing their luck for some time now, and have become quite brazen in their lack of regard for the people and life itself. I am surprised its taken this long -- which is a credit to the people -- and I am not suprised it has come to this.

I expect that if concrete steps are not taken soon, that it will get worse. Much much worse.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Good point!

Cities/towns pay quite a bit in civil settlements for the bad behavior of officers; they should be liable for some of those costs thei incur as well.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Cities/towns pay quite a bit in civil settlements for the bad behavior of officers; they should be liable for some of those costs thei incur as well.

They should be liable for ALL of it.

I had several businesses, if someone got injured at one of them due to my negligence I could not have the local township foot the bill, it came out of my pocket or via my insurance (which I paid).

originally posted by: Annee
Just one question.

Do we have at least 2 sides to this story?

I'm not sure what other "side" there is.

Are you doubting that the niece said this?

a reply to: Boadicea

You guys are incredulous. Did ANYBODY here read the story?

A guy with 19 prior arrests that served THREE terms in prison for robbery, drug sale, and stabbing gets pissed when he thinks some guy cut him off. He chases the car around for several blocks and at a stop light, gets out of the car and starts throwing haymakers through the window at an off duty 3 year cop. The cop shot him.

Eye-witness and surveillance footage corroborates this.

Motorist punches cop before getting shot.

NYPD to Probe Off Duty Cop Involved In Road Rage Shooting

I gotta admit, I've had enough of thugs being glorified as victims.

Seems to me he is fully responsible for his "character".

But a high-ranking police source called the shooting “absolutely’’ justified, defending Isaacs against critics who suggested that he might have avoided the deadly escalation by getting out of his car and fleeing.

Small, 37, had a long rap sheet listing 19 arrests, sources said.

His sister, Victoria Dempsey, complained that her ex-con brother’s character was being “assassinated” after his death.

Good thread and discussion.

You can hate violent murderous cops and still support all the good Law Enforcement officers out there. I do.

Here's what I think we need to do.

-Better Training-Jiujitsu/grappling training for all officers.
-Better Screening of Officer Candidates
-Better interaction with the communities they patrol-events-partnerships etc.
-Citizen oversight of all investigations of bad cops and prosecution and conviction just like ordinary citizens when they break the law.
-Less militerization of our police force. They police officers there to serve and protect, not green berets going into combat against ISIS.
-Prosecution for police departments and officers if they hide/destroy evidence.
-High caps/limits on payouts. Meaning millions of dollars per year are spend on payouts/judgements by police departments every year. Make those manditorily higher and you'll see police departments start to watch themselves for a change to avoid these payout.

originally posted by: Boadicea
I have made the case many times that we are not doing our LEOs any favors by turning them into thugs with a badge and a gun and a license to kill. Taking a life is brutal on the heart and the soul. Our LEOs deserve better than that. MUCH better.

What's it going to take? Maybe folks will pay a little more attention when natural law takes over. Specifically, the survival instinct. We can cry "comply! comply!" all we want, but sometimes folks cannot "comply" through no fault of their own... and when folks know that their lives are in danger, instinct takes over... fight or flight. And when you have nowhere to run... and nowhere to hide... and the police are your enemies... Then it's just fight.

We MUST do better.

Family declares war on off-duty cop in road rage shooting

The family of a Brooklyn man shot dead by an off-duty cop during a road-rage incident demanded Tuesday that the officer be charged in the killing — or they’ll “hunt him down” themselves.

Zoe Dempsey, the 23-year-old niece of slain dad Delrawn Small, said, “We will seek our justice’’ — and get violent if necessary.

I am not in any way, shape or form condoning such vengeance.

But I do understand that this a natural -- and EXPECTED -- reaction to the threat so many people feel from LEOs who would shoot first and ask questions later. Goose... gander. If cops feel "scared" for their lives because Joe Blow might have a gun, you can bet Joe Blow will be even more scared for because they know Joe Officer has a gun and is ready to use it.

Especially knowing that Joe Officer has to little fear from the consequences of killing Joe Blow; whereas Joe Blow knows he'll face the ultimate consequences for killing Joe Officer. Who has more to lose? Not Joe Officer.

The most dangerous people in the world are those with everything to lose... or nothing to lose.

What can we do about it? Here are a few suggestions:

• Better defensive training for all LEOs, starting with how NOT to create a volatile situation, and how to de-escalate volatile situations, etc., but most of all stop training LEOs that we are their enemy!!!
  
• Provide best defensive equipment impossible, such as bulletproof vests/body armor -- what else?
  
• Dash and body cams with audio -- automatically activated, and preferably live streaming for public viewing and download (which protects the LEOs at least as much as the public)
  
• Steroid testing -- not random testing, but at supervisor's discretion with probable cause, and especially after an officer-involved shooting
  
• Immediate removal of officer from scene
  
• Immediate statement taken from officer -- and released to the public (along with video/audio)
  
• Immediate suspension of officer without pay pending investigation
  
• Improved initial psychological testing for recruits; minimum 100 IQ required.
  
• Improved ongoing psychological counseling for possible depression, PTSD, and other mental/emotional hazards of the job

That's all I've got. Please -- PLEASE -- add to the list. We need solutions and we need them yesterday.

I would especially like to hear from the LEOs on the site. What do you need to be safer? What would help you do your job better? What do you want civilians to know?

If someone gets out of their car, walks to yours, and starts beating the crap out of you through the window, you are 100% justified in shooting. This is not simple battery it is felonious assault. I hear cries about how his kid was in the car. If this man was a real father, he wouldn't be putting them in danger by attacking another person.

iTruthSeeker

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I kinda like that thought too...

But I think those who chose to employ the officer do have some culpability as well. Especially if there were past/ongoing complaints and they continued to employ the officer.

originally posted by: Annee
Just one question.

Do we have at least 2 sides to this story?

What fun would that be... Just go Ferguson on he said she said.....

You better have some damn good proof before you go all vigilante on cops or anyone else.