God - Justice. Reality or misconception?

a reply to: Lassiecat

Just checking

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

no...

Gnosticism wasn't a religion...They were "christian"... or at least part of the many competing sects of it as it was evolving in those days...

They were just writers that disagreed with the "church", and had a following... and had different beliefs then what the ruling class of "priests" believed

Valintinus was the guy that believed that Jesus was just a spirit, that didn't leave foot prints...

Gnostic come from Gnosis, understanding, knowledge. Gnostic is a person with an understanding and knowledge of the reality. Sects are different.

a reply to: Wombocracy

No, sin is a secondary consequence of free will. If God created man with a soverign free will, then man would choose to sin.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

God created sin when tHEy said "Thou shall not eat the fruit of the tree we put in the middle of the Garden.".

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

God created sin when tHEy said "Thou shall not eat the fruit of the tree we put in the middle of the Garden.".

It wasn't the tree of good and evil, it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

It doesn't matter what is was called. God created sin when he said "Thou shall not......."

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

It doesn't matter what is was called. God created sin when he said "Thou shall not......."

Sin existed long before Adam was created. Go to Ezekiel chapter 28 to find the origin of sin. If was first found in an angel long before Adam.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I see an assertion of the sin of pride. I don't see anything that confirms the origin of sin. The LORD himself is not without "sin", and HE created evil, according to the Bible.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I see an assertion of the sin of pride. I don't see anything that confirms the origin of sin. The LORD himself is not without "sin", and HE created evil, according to the Bible.

That's what the KJV says, modern translations say he creates "calamity". Meaning destruction, volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. I'm not sure why Shakespearean English uses evil and calamity as synonyms, but whatever. The Bible says that the devil was the first that was found with sin, as you read, and the fall of the devil and 1/3 of the angels happened before Adam was created. I wish the Bible gave us more info of when this happened, and more of the circumstances surrounding the fall of Satan, but then again I realize it's not God'said intention to spend much time talking about the adversary.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The Bible says that the devil was the first that was found with sin, as you read

That is not what I read at all. I read about the Cherub's sin of pride, nothing more, nothing less.

and the fall of the devil and 1/3 of the angels happened before Adam was created.

Biblical citation?

That's what the KJV says, modern translations say he creates "calamity". Meaning destruction, volcanoes, earthquakes

Calamity?

Deuteronomy 32
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.

24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

I guess next you're going to tell me that it's not evil if God does it?

As I said earlier, the biblical God himself is not without sin. His acknowledgement of his sin is recorded in Genesis 2:18 and in Genesis 6:6. Sin doesn't originate from the Devil, it originates from God. There is nothing that doesn't originate from God.

a reply to: windword

I looked at both those verses, where does it say God sinned? This is basic theology proper, that God is Holy and Righteous. If sin was in God then it would have been irrelevant if iniquity was found in Satan, or when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Lol

a reply to: NOTurTypical

What is "sin" other than missing the mark? God admits to "missing the mark" when he said "It is not good...", and he moved on from there. He also admitted regrets for having created mankind. He missed the mark, and moved on from there.

As above, so below....made in God's image..."for now they have become like us, knowing good and evil." The biblical God is not without sin.

a reply to: windword

But knowing what is wrong/evil isn't sin, it's the action of it. Temptation isn't a sin, giving into it is. Example, Eve was tempted to eat the fruit, if she would have said not it wouldn't have been a sin. Grieving/sorrow/regret isn't a sin, even though God foreknew what man would do, when it happened it grieved Him. My dog just passed away last month, but he was ill for a month. I knew he was going to die relatively soon, but when it happened is when the tears came and I was filled with sorrow.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The biblical God admits to "missing the mark", at least twice in the Old Testament. Both times it's because of mistakes made with mankind.

When "God" knows, that knowing is more knowing than Adam knew when he knew his wife. God's knowing is all encompassing, and as Deuteronomy 32 states, God is more than will to exert the evil that he knows so well.

a reply to: windword

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this to be quite honest. If you want to believe that God sins and is the author of sin, then go right ahead. I think I'm wasting my time with this particular point.

a reply to: windword

Originally posted by windword
When "God" knows, that knowing is more knowing than Adam knew when he knew his wife.
…

Man…that was a tricky one…lol

Had to read that 5 or 7 times before it finally sunk in…


- JC

Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits: Do men gather grapes from thorns?".




The seeds you plant are the fruits you get. It's not really a "punishment" or a "reward" anymore than gravity is; it's just the law of cause and effect (karma / sowing and reaping).


If people plant the seeds of Love, the those seeds will bring the fruits of Love.

originally posted by: arpgme
Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits: Do men gather grapes from thorns?".




The seeds you plant are the fruits you get. It's not really a "punishment" or a "reward" anymore than gravity is; it's just the law of cause and effect (karma / sowing and reaping).


If people plant the seeds of Love, the those seeds will bring the fruits of Love.

Or remaining in the vine as the branches. That will also bear much fruit. But you're right, whatsoever a man sows, so shall he reap.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: windword

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this to be quite honest. If you want to believe that God sins and is the author of sin, then go right ahead. I think I'm wasting my time with this particular point.

I am with you. I want to know why God decided (as the uncontested original inventor of MALEFICENCE) to place the overlay "sin" blame games (or the judgement of uncontrollable "brattiness") onto the human IT created. Talk about being a God of true Empathy and Understanding; not!! more a Dickens novella scenario IT failed to edit properly. Leave suffering out of the experience of being a human. NO, the point is for the human to REALLY suffer; its called "accelerated learning school" (for the soul). Problem being; you have no idea why you are on earth playing this game of survival.