What Would You Give In Exchange For Your Soul?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I believe I was given a new birth and the Holy Spirit takes up residency inside me.

Wouldn't that make you, metaphorically, pregnant with a "new" life, rather than reborn?

a reply to: windword

I have no idea at all how it works, I just know I'm not the same person anymore.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I would posit that a circuit was connected, rather than your body is sharing its physical space with the Holy Spirit. Giving you more of direct connection to the divine than you were able to perceive before. You made contact with "Jacob's Ladder". You have set your "bush aflame" with a fire that doesn't consume, but feeds.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

To complete the two great commandments Jesus gave, to love God and to love other people as we would love ourselves. Basically self sacrifice to help others even if we get nothing in return.

Matt 6:25 Therefore, I tell you, don't be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn't life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26See the birds of the sky, that they don't sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you of much more value than they? 27"Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment to his lifespan? 28Why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin, 29yet I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was not dressed like one of these. 30But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won't he much more clothe you, you of little faith? 31"Therefore don't be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?' 32For the Gentiles seek after all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33But seek first God's Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.

I had some point to make in mind when I pasted this passage, but then it was gone, what people call 'brain fart'.

This passage does seem to indicate a mention of people value as compared to birds and lilies, but then, 'the Gentile'? Really? The birds and lilies are more in tune with the kingdom god than the Gentiles are?

So if I ignore the slur and consider the birds and the lilies out of context, I see that they are natural, and they prosper or not depending on many factors. They do all die eventually and their constituent elements remain in the bio-sphere. That is also what I expect will happen to me.

I'm now not certain whether my first idea (brain farted away) was better or worse than what I came up with afterward.

a reply to: pthena

It's not a slur, in the Septuagint OT the word "ethnos" just means nations, a group of people, and generally means non-Hebrew people/pagans/gentiles. Jesus is saying "even the people that don't know the one true God worry about those things".

I really love that verse, it means God provides the necessary basics of life for His children. That God feeds birds, and brings rain to lilies so how much more important are His children than birds and flowers?

It's a comforting passage, we worry too much over trivial things.

Worth = Money?

Spirit is not material therefore the question in my opinion is ambiguous.

There isn't a price... we all have souls and we will all continue to have such.

To me the passage is simple. When you give yourself to the world you lose your spirit into a material realm, one of which your spirit suffocates.

a reply to: windword

I dunno, Jesus said I'd be born again, Paul said the same Spirit the rose Christ Jesus from the dead resides in me, and that greater is He that is in me than the one that's in the world.

I belive it, absolutely. I don't even have the same carnal appetites I had before. So whatever happened, I'm not the same man.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Welcome back!
I probably (not sure at the moment) neglected the welcome back sooner.

I think and remember better in the morning, it's past noon by my clock, so I probably should take a break.

later!

originally posted by: MamaJ
Worth = Money?

Spirit is not material therefore the question in my opinion is ambiguous.

There isn't a price... we all have souls and we will all continue to have such.

To me the passage is simple. When you give yourself to the world you lose your spirit into a material realm, one of which your spirit suffocates.

No, of course not money. God has no use for currency in heaven. And I know physics, the soul and spirit have no mass, therefore the are eternal, they aren't affected by time without mass.

So what's Jesus mean by losing it?

a reply to: pthena

Hey, good to see you. I hope you are well in life.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
what does God say your own soul is worth?

The creator God didn't say anything in a book about the worth of a soul, that is 100% extrapolated religious rhetoric.None that live "have " a soul they ARE a soul which is a living being that has life (spirit).

The reality of life is EVERYTHING in the material universe (and the universe itself) in which life lives in ,WILL die.If there is a creator God they are 100% in control of EVERYTHING and what a human thinks and believes about value is meaningless because it is ALL in the valley of the shadow of death.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

So what's Jesus mean by losing it?

Jesus can only answer that. What he meant in my opinion was quoted by you in your reply to me. Here it is again....

To me the passage is simple. When you give yourself to the world you lose your spirit into a material realm, one of which your spirit suffocates.

a reply to: MamaJ

So you kinda going with the gathering or scattering approach, the either with us or against us approach, the either serve God or serve Mammon approach.. Right? I can dig that.

a reply to: Rex282

You're correct on that, the Bible doesn't say "You Earth dweller, your soul is worth X!"

I meant by that literary device is "what did heaven give up/do to pay the price to redeem your soul and spirit?" A price was paid, and that determines the worth of ANYTHING that is bought, what he purchaser felt it was worth and paid for it.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
So you tell me what picking up your cross and following Him means to you.

This part of the scriptures has stuck out for me.It reminds me of the lessons the adversity of life teaches us while moving forward in their walk with the Lord.It evokes the humility required to practice reaching out lovingly to others who stumble, rather then judgement.

It's sometimes said that everyone has their cross to bear.When one encounters others suffering similar hardships to the ones' they've gone through, it's a opportunity to reassure one another and share the faith.This can be very healing, especially since dark times often make individuals feel alone in their struggles...

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Rex282

You're correct on that, the Bible doesn't say "You Earth dweller, your soul is worth X!"

I meant by that literary device is "what did heaven give up/do to pay the price to redeem your soul and spirit?" A price was paid, and that determines the worth of ANYTHING that is bought, what he purchaser felt it was worth and paid for it.

You are still using religious literary devices.Heaven is not a place .The word heaven in Greek is ouranos which literally means sky or firmament.The construct of a literal “place” in space was extrapolated from it to form a religious doctrine.

When Yahoshua is speaking of heavens he never means a literal place because the context doesn’t warrant it however it does connotate the mind.The heavens is a metaphor that can’t be observed by perception because the human mind can’t understand itself.It is indicative the old adage….You can’t lift yourself up by your own boot straps.

Your construct of redeeming your soul and spirit are equally impercievable metaphors because there are no literal “entities” of a soul or spirit that are separate from the person.It simply means the embodiment of a life.The construct of a soul and spirit being an entity has it’s roots in paganism.

As for the “price” that was paid that also is a religious doctrine that is an extrapolation to fit a religious agenda.Christianity dances around the issue with vague language and concept .However Yahoshua was not a ransom or a sacrifice because that is a barbaric pagan ritual that is meaningless.A persons blood does not cleanse another person by being sacrificed for it.

Blood sacrifice is a hold over from the paganism that was grafted into Judaism.Yahoshua soundly rejected it when he spoke of Gehenna( translated as hell) which was place where child sacrifices were performed and became a trash dump outside of Jerusalem.

The reasonYahoshua was set up by the Jewish religious leaders to be murdered was clearly stated by Yahoshua….the Jewish religious leaders were reprobate murderers. It had zero to do with the Jewish paganism of a human sacrifice to a God to appease it’s anger or paying a debt by propitiation.

How and what the death and resurrection of Yahoshua was or did is a complete mystery regardless of what the religious believe.Paul tried in vain to explain it from his very limited perspective (and even stated so).Yahoshua was completely silent on how it all worked he only stated what it would accomplish..deliver all of creation including ALL of mankind from Hades… which is the Good news.

Yahoshua never got into the Christian hermeneutics of eschatology of how things work.It is irony (and vain foolishness)that Christians believe they know.Yahoshua simply stated the general implication(deliverance) everything else is religious rhetoric fomented by Christianity.

IMO it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.To read into something Yahoshua didn’t state and believe he did is heading for a strong delusionment. Yahoshua called that blasphemy of the holy spirit which will not have forgiveness(the Greek word aphesis which means freed from bondage) in this age(the physical realm) nor the next..(the realm of death).

To believe that Yahoshua’s blood has some super natural power that appeased the creator God the father as a payment is the slipperiest of all slopes.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Rex282

You're correct on that, the Bible doesn't say "You Earth dweller, your soul is worth X!"

I meant by that literary device is "what did heaven give up/do to pay the price to redeem your soul and spirit?" A price was paid, and that determines the worth of ANYTHING that is bought, what he purchaser felt it was worth and paid for it.

You are still using religious literary devices.Heaven is not a place .The word heaven in Greek is ouranos which literally means sky or firmament.The construct of a literal “place” in space was extrapolated from it to form a religious doctrine.

It's a religious forum! If you didn't want to conceptualize religious terms then don't participate here. Secondly, the Bible actually speaks of 3 heavens, the first being up to space, the atmosphere, the second heaven being the universe/outer space, and the "third heaven", the domain of God in the spiritual realm. So forgive me, the "third heaven".

When Yahoshua is speaking of heavens he never means a literal place because the context doesn’t warrant it however it does connotate the mind.The heavens is a metaphor that can’t be observed by perception because the human mind can’t understand itself.It is indicative the old adage….You can’t lift yourself up by your own boot straps.

In some instances yes, in other instances the Messiah is speaking about heaven, where God's throne is, where He is going to build "mansions" for us, His "Father's house". When Paul was stoned he went to the "third heaven" and saw things he said he couldn't even put into words.

Your construct of redeeming your soul and spirit are equally impercievable metaphors because there are no literal “entities” of a soul or spirit that are separate from the person.It simply means the embodiment of a life.The construct of a soul and spirit being an entity has it’s roots in paganism.

Modern medicine has destroyed the concept of "soul sleep", thousands of people have had experiences in either Heaven or Hell when they were clinically dead and resuscitated. And that's what the Bible has said all along about believers, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", when John was in heaven receiving the vision for Revelation he saw the souls under the throne of the Tribulation saints.

As for the “price” that was paid that also is a religious doctrine that is an extrapolation to fit a religious agenda.Christianity dances around the issue with vague language and concept .However Yahoshua was not a ransom or a sacrifice because that is a barbaric pagan ritual that is meaningless.A persons blood does not cleanse another person by being sacrificed for it.

Nonsense, just because the enemy copies or perverts something doesn't mean the thing in its intended purpose isn't of God. Jesus Himself said He would die for us. It's the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement. Our sin for His righteousness, it make us LEGALLY righteous before God.

Blood sacrifice is a hold over from the paganism that was grafted into Judaism.Yahoshua soundly rejected it when he spoke of Gehenna( translated as hell) which was place where child sacrifices were performed and became a trash dump outside of Jerusalem.

I assume you're talking about Moloch worship. The women and men had religious rite orgies in the woods and when the women got pregnant they would put their babies on the outstretched arms of the brazen idol that had a fire kindled in its belly. Those children were the property of Moloch.

The reasonYahoshua was set up by the Jewish religious leaders to be murdered was clearly stated by Yahoshua….the Jewish religious leaders were reprobate murderers. It had zero to do with the Jewish paganism of a human sacrifice to a God to appease it’s anger or paying a debt by propitiation.

Jesus wasn't set up for nothing, He controlled the situation from the last supper on. He freely gave His life, and as He told Peter if He wanted to He could call down 12 legion of angels. That's enough to kill every human on Earth. In the OT 1 angel in 1 night killed 180,000 Assyrians.

How and what the death and resurrection of Yahoshua was or did is a complete mystery regardless of what the religious believe.Paul tried in vain to explain it from his very limited perspective (and even stated so).Yahoshua was completely silent on how it all worked he only stated what it would accomplish..deliver all of creation including ALL of mankind from Hades… which is the Good news.

That's not the gospel dude, read 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

It's a religious forum! If you didn't want to conceptualize religious terms then don't participate here.

I can go anywhere in ATS I want regardless of your bigoted statements.I chose to come here and post because of the abundant ignorance of the religious like you that condescend and disseminate fallacious information.There is not one of your response that have any validity to them so I won't be addressing any of your sophomoric responses.They were are all knee jerk religious rhetoric of something you were taught and believe in ignorance and are now miming .I have heard your type of religious rhetoric literally thousands of times before and you have said zero I haven't heard before by scholars that far exceed your limited knowledge and intelligence.This will be the last time I converse with you.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

My premise is actually toward other believers in Christ, but you cannot exclude anyone from a topic, that's against the T&C, so I'm trying to keep it open for anyone to participate freely. So I'm just letting people express what the passage means to them.

I just didn't realize that souls were a commodity. The notion is actually kind of amusing, in the realm of hypotheticals.

a reply to: Rex282

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates