OUR NEWS: superstate instead of the EU - France and Germany ultimatum

a reply to: SprocketUK

No no, i think we don´t need rightwingers to change something.
They are not for the people, they are just against the people, against different races, skincolors, different thinkings. They are for spying, more police, more military, against social welfare for the people(while the unemployed in germany vote for them, as some workers in the US vote for Trump, fools) all that what he had from 1933-1945.

That´s something we don´t need again, nothing was good at that time, for the people. And, btw, a european superstate was Hitlers idea!

a reply to: DerBeobachter

That's why I prefer the Germans under a bigger flag than just a country. Don't know what part of Germany you're from and what you learned in history, but it was unjust contracts, reparations, forced on us.
That's why it is a good thing Merkel soothed down Hollande a bit. Because ww2 was carried by the masses, because they had no hope, no future and a crashed self esteem.

If you don't see the parallel to a certain island...
The strong leadership you're looking for, might have gone with the others and immediately terminated all agreements. That's the downside to patriotism.

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
a reply to: SprocketUK

No no, i think we don´t need rightwingers to change something.
They are not for the people, they are just against the people, against different races, skincolors, different thinkings. They are for spying, more police, more military, against social welfare for the people(while the unemployed in germany vote for them, as some workers in the US vote for Trump, fools) all that what he had from 1933-1945.

That´s something we don´t need again, nothing was good at that time, for the people. And, btw, a european superstate was Hitlers idea!

Haha, what's the best way to put ordinary people off a political movement? tar it with the right wing brush.

One thing you may not know about UKIP is that if you apply to join and have ever been a member of the National Front, BNP or any of the other right wing, racist organisations, then you are barred and if you lie and they find out later, they will ban you instantly.

No other party does that, even the Labour Party numbers at least one former Nazi among it's ranks and there may be more (Note I said Nazi, because that was the group she was actually in, not merely right wing, but Nazi).

ETA here is the news story about her.
www.miltonkeynes.co.uk...
Kinda funny that the one right wing party in the UK is the only one to ban right wingers, don't you think?

a reply to: SprocketUK
Wasn´t the Brexit debate won with hate and racism? Because too many foreigners try to reach the UK?

The reasons why Brits want to leave the EU

Example:
"It´s all about immigration. It´s not about trade or Europe or something like that, it´s all about immigration..."

Not to worry

America and Britain will bail these idiots out again when the time comes

Wasn´t the Brexit debate won with hate and racism? Because too many foreigners try to reach the UK?

Is "foreigner" a race? That's new.

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
a reply to: SprocketUK
Wasn´t the Brexit debate won with hate and racism? Because too many foreigners try to reach the UK?

The reasons why Brits want to leave the EU

Example:
"It´s all about immigration. It´s not about trade or Europe or something like that, it´s all about immigration..."

Really mate?

You going to tell me what went on in my mind when I was deciding which box to put my X in?

No wonder you Germans get stamped down on by those in charge all the time if you swallow every single bit of propaganda that they feed you.

People do suffer because of unlimited migration, they do see their wages depressed, they do struggle to access services in their communities.
Railing against that isn't racism, it's self interest. There is a difference between hating the system and hating the people who are also exploited by it.

Those against us leaving the EU would crawl over broken glass rather than acknowledge that there were many reasons for people to vote out.
Loss of sovereignty and accountability, the democratic deficit, the economy, just a pure desire to hold onto a national identity that people are generally quite proud of (Even if it ain't perfect) and just "sticking two fingers up to the new world order".

There is no point moaning about Merkel and superstates if you aren't going to do anything about it, is there?

a reply to: VivreLibre

Racist, is the lazy term for xenophobic. Think in lovecraft.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Thank you for the thing about UKIP, didn't know that
And I think I can see why you fear the middle easterners, let's not forget what you did. Not you as person, but a country.
France has people sitting there for months, so determined to get on your island. So "immigration" was an issue, just not as the media is painting it. You don't mind does who make sure, they can survive.
After following Bush in the war on terror, while other foreign ministers and germany told you, your proof against Saddam were none. Spooky.

But I also see why you think you're full. Most homeless people I met, are not English. You have the only real military in Europe and...

oh GAWD, please stay ! why do you not love us anymore? We NEED you! and you need us!

a reply to: Peeple

Haha, look mate, most of us, deep down are Europhiles.

I love a bottle of Krug, or a pint of something Belgian, or Weissebier. A plate of Bratwurst or Moules or if I am extremely lucky, cassoulet.


I adore watching Toulouse play rugby (Unless it's against my team and they win). I've never met someone from Germany, France, Italy or Spain that I didn't get on with.

It isn't a hatred of Europe, just those who exist behind the glass facades of the Union buildings that drove brexit.



Read what I posted about wage depression etc. and you will see that the problem isn't skin colour it's about distortion of the labour market in favour of employers and a massive shortfall in the services needed to support a greatly increased population.

a reply to: SprocketUK

We'll try to get prettier, those social issues are a problem everywhere, no housing, not enough doctors, you're not alone with that Germany, France, Denmark, Netherlands, we all have the same problems.

We do more military and support you there, so maybe you can save a little, from a budget cutback?

And and and if you want you can have just the trading union till we earned your trust back?

Oh gawd, I am in full break up mode!

Later!

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: SprocketUK

We'll try to get prettier, those social issues are a problem everywhere, no housing, not enough doctors, you're not alone with that Germany, France, Denmark, Netherlands, we all have the same problems.

We do more military and support you there, so maybe you can save a little, from a budget cutback?

And and and if you want you can have just the trading union till we earned your trust back?

Oh gawd, I am in full break up mode!

It's far better to be good neighbours than bad housemates, don't you think? We know you have all those problems too, and the common factor is EU membership. Set yourselves free and be trading partners but independent nation states like we want to be.




Gotta go for a bit cos England are drawing 1 all with the mighty force of world football that is Iceland.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I can't see how that could work, competing against the US and China?
Maybe I am deeply indoctrinated, but if you say things like that it makes me feel like you don't know what you do? I don't see how my nationality will or ever could be equal to free? I am free because I can go from France to Italy without boarders, or changing money. And stay there and get a job if I want to, without troubles.

a reply to: awareness10

I love how the governments of France and Germany have already agreed to it without a vote by the people........ I'm sure they are not afraid of democracy, are they? France and Germany know what's best for their citizens and the citizens of All European countries.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Gotta go for a bit cos England are drawing 1 all with the mighty force of world football that is Iceland.

you wish

Let us review the recent past...Germany invaded France...Twice. Germany and Italy were allies and fought together against France in WW2. Now all is forgiven and past foes are best buddies?

Doesn't work for me on many levels...but maybe selfish greed can accomplish more that two wars could not.

Cheers.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: SprocketUK

I can't see how that could work, competing against the US and China?
Maybe I am deeply indoctrinated, but if you say things like that it makes me feel like you don't know what you do? I don't see how my nationality will or ever could be equal to free? I am free because I can go from France to Italy without boarders, or changing money. And stay there and get a job if I want to, without troubles.

Who says you are too small? Have to compete? Load of rot.

It's the ministers come out with that because they want state visits and to be fawned over.

Look at the thread where people wanted to buy British stuff...Italy makes everything from pesto to heavy machinery, Spain has a massive food and drink and tourism industry, as does France, Germany makes cars that are almost as good as Jaguars, loads of tech stuff and pretty much every diagnostic machine you'll find in any hospital.

Everywhere makes something or does something that someone else wants.

What good does it do to be part of a competitive group if you all get poorer?

Mario....I want a redo on the first half. Lol.


Back after the 2nd half.

a reply to: SprocketUK

As a German I had nothing but ww2 in history, well almost. But I never was at a kz. Couldn't do it, deep feeling of guilt. I believe you understate how much had to come together. One key thing is nationalism.
Most people were shocked when the first flags were seen with the "Sommermärchen" 2006. But nobody else seemed to bother, no lightning struck us, so now a little bit is fine, in the frame of Europe.
We need that frame.

The other thing is, how easy you gamble with fire and your timing couldn't have been worse. Tensions all around, TTIP and the others on the horizon, refugees everywhere, at all our boarders, social, Russia is pleased, silly boys with weapons claiming to be doing anything else than committing suicide, we're not fully out of the last recession and you fuel the flames? Without a blanket.
I mean what's the plan? Boris Johnson and next election Farage?
We all are not very amused with our governments, but there is podemos, there are democratic solutions to influence the EU into becoming something more social and beneficial for the people.
We protest, go on strike, burn a few cars, but to just abandon all the others? For nationalism?

Maybe you didn't suffer enough? EU needs to change there is no question about that, but I don't want Europe to fall back in neighbourhood fightings. We have sports for that kind of patriotic energies.
Yes germany wants it more than anybody else, but for good reasons, we were all aware the euro would cost us, but we did it, because we still believe we will do better, if we're all one the same level.
You shrug competition off, but you will pay the price for that. The only way we can influence global politics, is if we stay global players.
And there is a good chance you ruined all of our hopes to achieve that. For your stupid union jack.

(Yeah! ICELAND!)

a reply to: Peeple

The only way we can influence global politics, is if we stay global players.

Sorry to interject...I'm curious...why should we want to influence global politics ?

I forgot

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Because everybody else does. Do you think China invests in Africa out of the goodness of their buddhistic hearts?

Because you like bananas and coffee and mangos all year. That means you should want to make sure the producers can do so under circumstances which are fair.

Because you are looking for your own advantages, be attractive for the cleanest most modern investors. Have jobs.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: awareness10

Seems like they are drawing up old ww2 borders doesn't it? Guess if a war of attrition against the UK doesn’t work they'll be primed for invasion. Funny how the countries involved have strong Roman Catholic underpinnings, or maybe we're not supposed to notice that?

I see butcherguy noticed that as well ;-)

Cheers - Dave

Well let it be shown as usual the British were the first to put a line in the sand and back away from European retardidness.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: butcherguy

So this would make a map of Europe look more like one of the early 1940's.

Good thing hundreds of thousands of lives were spent liberating...

...nothing.

Next time a nuke or two would be in order.......it sorted the Japanese out......