HUYGENS Titan photos have been altered!!

maybe the probe had a light source coming from it, because most of the rocks that are near to the photo source seem to have shadows going away from the source. its only until you get to 3 bigs rocks away that the light source dies out and it doesnt affect any more shadows.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i see no evidence of retouching at all. ive done the odd retouching on video and photos but if they have retouched it then why no just make all the shadows go in the same direction so conspiracy theorists have less to point out that's wrong about the photo.

What I think happened was someone cloned out something in the blurry area to the top/left of the strange shadow, and they did a bad job of touching out the surrounding area. Basically, they painted out the object and did a bad job of painting out part of the shadow that the object was casting. The artist was in a hurry and was not paying enough attention to how the photomanipulation would effect the surrounding areas. You can't just be a good photoshop user when you want to manipulate photos, you also have to pay attention to common sense and know a little bit about physics.

what about the photos before the decent? is it just the photos on the surface that are in question.

theres some before the decent, one shows a 360 degree view of the surcace, and then of course the ones from the surface.

are you saying it never landed on the surface and these are completly fake? or have merely been touched up to look nicer.

The light is coming from the top/left. The strange shadow has to be either from a second light source coming from the right, or the object that produced the shadow has been photomanipulated out of the picture. That is the main thing that looks suspicious. The fact that a NASA picture is posted and quickly removed is an indication of a cover-up.

You're right, there is a light source from the probe - it was used to illuminate the landing area and there's details of it on the ESA website. I think the story about NASA pulling the picture is becoming a legend, only a couple of people say that CNN mentioned it and nobody at all seems to have seen the picture. If it really did happen it was probably just taken down because ESA are supposed to be the ones releasing the pictures first. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

What I think happened was someone cloned out something in the blurry area to the top/left of the strange shadow, and they did a bad job of touching out the surrounding area. Basically, they painted out the object and did a bad job of painting out part of the shadow that the object was casting.

Those blocks are all over the photo... there's a dozen different areas that you could say have been manipulated.

Originally posted by Geneticus
HUYGENS IMAGERY EQUIPMENT...

Huygens is equiped with 6 equipment packages:

Aerosol Collector and Pyrolyser (ACP)
Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer (DISR)
Doppler Wind Experiment (DWE)
Gas Chromatograph and Mass Spectrometer (GCMS)
Huygens Atmosphere Structure Instrument (HASI)
Surface Science Package (SSP)

The DISR is the one that is taking the pictures:

"DISR measures solar radiation using silicon photodiodes, a two-dimensional silicon Charge Coupled Device (CCD) detector and two InGaAs near-infrared linear array detectors."

sci.esa.int...

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Geneticus]

I'm not convinced any images have been altered but here is a photo of the Descent Imager- Spectral Radiometer (DISR)


Front

Side

www.lpl.arizona.edu...

The light source is right next to the camera lens which means it would cast the shadow directly away from the camera. Basically, the light would lessen the visible shadows.

Originally posted by Geneticus
The Sun occupies a width of 1/2 degree in the sky. That means that the sun's rays that reach the Earth can be as much as 1/2 a degree off from one another. From Titan, obviously the Sun would take up a much smaller amount of the sky. That means the sun's rays that arrive at Titan will be nearly parallel. Essentially, the sun's ray DO all travel in the same direction.

You are forgetting an obvious (and important) point, doesn't Titan have a permanent solid cloud cover?

I do know a little about photo compression, and it seems like to me, the photos come in bit blocks, ( I do not know what the bit rate is ) but its transmitted and small blocks and re imaged once it gets back, (again this is just theory) But say the image is taken as a whole, broke into (not sure the resolution) into 10X10 Pixel squares, Compressed to say 4 bit (16 Colors or shades of grey) and each 10 X 10 Square is transmitted in a packets (with its coordinates) and sent back to be re put together. That would make sense to do it this way, because I am sure there is packet loss etc from the transmission and some 10 X 10 Blocks may have not made it. So instead of resending the whole picture in hopes it doesn’t get droped, you send a little at a time, and if some gets dropped some, do. But each square is now treated as small photos. Now Depending on the amount of color or grey in a certain block some colors (or shades of grey) will be left behind and not transmitted. So if a 10 X 10 Block is sent and the next one is sent but the colors dropped in the compression or what ever selective nature the image compression has. The joining areas of 10 X 10 blocks could and will most likely not match perfect. Not to mention packet loss on transmission etc.

Now take that and the minute changes or area of change and what would it be they were try to erase. Seems to me they are just trying to take a photo from millions of miles away and they put it up for public consumption. So it has to be cleaned up, and the nature of picture taking leaves so it had to be cleaned a little before they could let it out to us.

That’s my Theroy

With all this talk of the light coming from one direction and therefore casting shadows in only one dorection, I think this is important to remember. If you could stand on Titan and look at the sky, the brightest object would be Saturn, and then the sun. Of course, you could not see either of them directly because of the thick cloud cover. So in effect, you do have 2 different light sources of 2 different intensities heavily diffused by the ever-changing atmosphere. It would be a challenge even to the world's best photo anaylists to try to reverse engineer those values confidently. I think all things considered, it's just a normal shadow or a digital artefact.

Sorry I forgot to mention that the lander WAS equiped with it's own lights too so that makes 3 dominant light sources. Sheesh! That's not easy! Hope this helps.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
I do know a little about photo compression, and it seems like to me, the photos come in bit blocks...

...So it has to be cleaned up, and the nature of picture taking leaves so it had to be cleaned a little before they could let it out to us....

This is close. The boxing effect is due to compression of the image. The Huygens uses an onboard hardware and software compression, but you'd think the quality would be outstanding on those systems. Whatever was done to these pics happened after the fact, including the pixeled grid. The goofy 8x16 box array blur was probably intended to make it easier to alter the photo.

Originally posted by spike
Sorry I forgot to mention that the lander WAS equiped with it's own lights too so that makes 3 dominant light sources. Sheesh! That's not easy! Hope this helps.

The only light would be diffused light coming from above through the clouds and the light from the surface science lamp.

Speaking of light sources...here’s MAJOR EVIDENCE of tampering…and it is SO SIMPLE!

If this is true…

“…DISR turns on a 20-watt lamp to replace colors of sunlight filtered out by Titan's atmospheric methane.”

And this is true…

“DISR will turn on its small lamp, continuously illuminating the surface at all light wavelengths.”

uanews.org...

Then why is everything Orange?

I heard people talk about altered pics of the Moon, Mars ect.. and now Titan. you would think theres some place in the solar system that there would be stuff NASA and ESA didnt have to hide.

Or just the fact that if they really wanted to hide something we would all never see the picture of it in the first place.

Originally posted by Geneticus
The Sun occupies a width of 1/2 degree in the sky. That means that the sun's rays that reach the Earth can be as much as 1/2 a degree off from one another. From Titan, obviously the Sun would take up a much smaller amount of the sky. That means the sun's rays that arrive at Titan will be nearly parallel. Essentially, the sun's ray DO all travel in the same direction.

Titan is much much farther from sun that our rock, so amount of light coming from the sun is much smaller. (intensity of light/radiation drops to one fourth every time when distance is doubled)

Also it's covered by thick clouds so sun isn't "point source", but it's whole sky which lights landscape like in cloudy day.

Originally posted by Geneticus
Speaking of light sources...here’s MAJOR EVIDENCE of tampering…and it is SO SIMPLE!

If this is true…

“…DISR turns on a 20-watt lamp to replace colors of sunlight filtered out by Titan's atmospheric methane.”

And this is true…

“DISR will turn on its small lamp, continuously illuminating the surface at all light wavelengths.”

uanews.org...

Then why is everything Orange?

It may be because the dust/atmosphere is orange and the surface is too. If you turn a white light on in a red room, the room is still red.

It would have been a bit of a bummer if the bulb had gone 'ping' and blown when it switched on though wouldn't it? I wonder who would have got the job to change it......

Q: How many scientists, $$$s and ships does it take to replace a light bulb..................

Originally posted by Geneticus
This is close. The boxing effect is due to compression of the image. The Huygens uses an onboard hardware and software compression, but you'd think the quality would be outstanding on those systems. Whatever was done to these pics happened after the fact, including the pixeled grid. The goofy 8x16 box array blur was probably intended to make it easier to alter the photo.

Bandwidth isn't so great, Huygens didn't have high gain antenna and neither excessive power to use big transmitting power.


Also as long as these claims are based on to way overcompressed and magnified JPEGs making these claims is BS.
This page shows exemplary well what kind of artifacts compression produces:
ai.fri.uni-lj.si...

www.nezumi.demon.co.uk...

Geneticus, what do you believe is being covered up? Why would they go through the trouble of altering the data?

What are they hiding?

MK

They say in the ESA site that:

This is the coloured view, following processing to add reflection spectra data, gives a better indication of the actual colour of the surface.

A better indication does not mean that this are the real colours.

Also, as any expert in photomanipulation knows, there are other ways to manipulate an image without using the rectangular selection tool.