Society is forced to be accepting of gays & transgenders.

a reply to: celinem

I find it strange that anyone would be "hounded" about this. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country? Where I am, If say the extent of it would be that if you're openly "not ok" with LGBT individuals, you'll get one of these responses, if any response at all:

If elderly - basically just an understanding dismissal of your opinion. The "I don't expect you to 'get' individuals right to self-determination, and that's ok, as long as you're not violating their rights."

Otherwise, somewhere on the spectrum between a brief eyeroll, to a respectful verbal questioning about why you feel the way you do. Keep in mind, even these are predicated on the person outwardly making a "thing" about being bothered by others' sexuality. The response is typically less reactive than it is with racists, perhaps a few words, like, "why are you so bothered by [whatever the 'offending' characteristic of the human is.]

originally posted by: celinem
okay, lets get one thing straight here.. My good friend of nearly 10 years is a lesbian and it's not an issue for me.
My problem is all of the hate people receive when they do not agree on the matter. I understand that everyone should be accepted no matter what but I don't appreciate that 'community' bashing others who have a different opinion about the matter. Savvy? a reply to: 3danimator2014

Please don't lie. You don't really believe that everyone should matter. This whole thread is a rant about your refusal to accept such. If you don't want to bash them, throwing a rock at them to incite a riot is a weird way to show it.

Do you want to know why this is an issue for so many? It's because some people here start inflammatory threads about their dislike for people not like themselves. Leave them alone, stop making negative public comments about your "sensibilities," put on your rose colored glasses, and go live your life in a way that makes you happy.

I am curious about the posts here in which so many claim they are not feeling pressured at all.

I wonder what determines the differing attitudes and experiences? If it depends what type of area you live in, or what?

On Facebook, for example, there is a lot of people posting stuff about bathrooms and such...

I was drawn to this thread today because we have a cousin on our family feed that is attempting to stir people up using this exact same type of tactic- making an open request of everyone to respond to him, and a long explanation of how if you aren't actively fighting, then you are guilty of terrible injustices, through your passive conduct.
He's actually comparing us to Nazi's and accomplices of murderers....

This kind of exagerrated rhetoric is something I find myself being faced with often, and I understand how it could make some people get defensive and feel antagonized after a while.

I guess for some reason some of you don't know people like that, and don't get that pressure. But I assure you it is happening for some!!

originally posted by: Bluesma
This kind of exagerrated rhetoric is something I find myself being faced with often, and I understand how it could make some people get defensive and feel antagonized after a while.

I absolutely understand how someone could feel defensive and antagonized about that. If someone was bugging me about my opinions and likening me to a Nazi, I would get tired of it, too.

But we ALL have this kind of 'pressure' in our lives. I support the right to choose and I get likened to a murderer. I support freedom of religion and I get called a Muslim sympathizer. I support LGBT and people call me a social justice warrior. I support individual freedom and people say I hate Christians... That exaggerated rhetoric comes from every angle!

I gotta say that you (and the OP) are not seeing the complete picture. This kind of "pressure" doesn't only come from the LGBT community. It's all around and we just have to have our opinions, allow other people theirs, and move along. We don't all agree and we're not going to share every opinion. That's life. And that's freedom of thought and expression in action.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I am curious about the posts here in which so many claim they are not feeling pressured at all.

I wonder what determines the differing attitudes and experiences? If it depends what type of area you live in, or what?

Of course I don't feel pressure to accept the LGBT folks, because I already do. Why would I feel pressure to do something I already do? I accept and support them 100%. The only way people are going to avoid the "pressure" or "force" is to give up who you are and have the same opinions as everyone else... (impossible, of course). The alternative is to speak your mind and allow for others to speak theirs.

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Opinions?

Two words for you. Social Engineering.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I am curious about the posts here in which so many claim they are not feeling pressured at all.

I wonder what determines the differing attitudes and experiences? If it depends what type of area you live in, or what?

On Facebook, for example, there is a lot of people posting stuff about bathrooms and such...

I was drawn to this thread today because we have a cousin on our family feed that is attempting to stir people up using this exact same type of tactic- making an open request of everyone to respond to him, and a long explanation of how if you aren't actively fighting, then you are guilty of terrible injustices, through your passive conduct.
He's actually comparing us to Nazi's and accomplices of murderers....

This kind of exagerrated rhetoric is something I find myself being faced with often, and I understand how it could make some people get defensive and feel antagonized after a while.

I guess for some reason some of you don't know people like that, and don't get that pressure. But I assure you it is happening for some!!

I'm not on any social media and have no idea what goes on there. I have lived in an open minded town my whole life and that is probably why I personally don't feel pressure... its just very ''normal'' in my area that someone might be LGBQT...there was a small parade of gay pride or something the other day in my town and everybody just went on about their business... not even a blink from the folks in the shop I was in.
I'm sure other areas are different in the states and maybe a gay pride parade would be strange for them.
I use Bing as my search engine and I don't see too many LGBQT issues in the top topics.
My gay/lesbian friends don't seem taken up with conversation about politically minded LGBQT issues... but I don't tend to have friends that like to discuss political issues anyhow.
Hope that answers your curiosity as to why I, personally feel no pressure. I'd be interested in other folks experience too, because I only know my own.
Maybe I'm living in a bubble of sorts.😊

You know, just speaking from my own experiences, it's usually not people that shove something down our throats. It's not the average citizen, it's not a passerby on the street or someone in the park.

It's firstly the media, and secondly the government, and third, being part of an online community and in general surfing the Web.

A lot of people here know I'm conservative in my own life, but if I wrote legislation it would be quite liberal.

That being said, I definitely feel the media and government will take every chance they get to push an agenda - is the agenda freedom for the LGBT group? Hell no its not. The agenda is more likely hiding the bombing of some hospital across seas, or passing some legislation that strips of of more of our rights, and the like.

So yes, I agree it's quite a bad circumstance when a Google news search, the top threads on ats, the first thing when you turn the TV on and the topic of discussion amongst politicians is the same thing. This does give the feeling that we are being suffocated by an issue - I feel this way even when it comes to second amendment rights, and I am very pro second amendment. But when the nra can profit off of contention and debate, they'll sure put on a show with Fox news about how Obama said "take every gun from every house"

If you are feeling suffocated by a topic or feel it's proportion is not realistic.. There's likely someone profiting from that.

Food for thought.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Really good post! I agree that sometimes I feel overwhelmed by the gun talk, and I support the second amendment, too. If people want to avoid the 'pressure' and 'force' to conform (with ANY opinion), turn off the TV and computer! And stay away from social media. Because, for the most part, the main purpose of media of any kind is not to inform... Those days are long gone. The purpose of media is to try to sway opinion!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Agreed!

I live in Utah, the central hotspot for Mormonism - Mormons literally send thousands of young adults on "missions" to convert others to their religion - Yet, I am not pressured, nothing is shoved down my throat, I literally live in an area where 90+% are actually a part of this religion, yet I have no problems being agnostic.

I don't shove it down their throats that I'm agnostic. They don't shove religion down mine...

Be courteous to others, avoid the media like the plague, you're likely getting nothing from them, and just realize other people just want to live their lives exactly the way being presented in the OP - Without being harassed, bothered, without having pro-this or anti-that shoved down their throat.

Can you imagine being a trans that gets rejected for a job, house renting, that gets rejected for basic common things we all have simply because they are different in some way that literally harms no one?

a reply to: Bluesma

I feel far more pressure from right wing groups to hate the foreign, hate the Muslim, hate the socialist, be intolerant, and hide behind a flag while doing it.

And I should point out that I have had pro - LGBT legislation used fraudulently against my family before, so when I say I feel more pressure from the right than I do from the LGBT community, you should take me seriously. Despite everything that happened to us, the wrong that was done to us in the courts, the failure of the justice system to protect us from a serial fraudster using his protected characteristic to demand money with menaces, I still stand by the statement that I feel more pressured to become a fascist, than I do to be onboard with homosexual equality.

For a start, I am, and always have been, an anti-fascist in the best sense of the word. I believe in freedom, liberty, and equality for all. I believe in it so strongly that I would happily incovenience myself or risk my life and limb to uphold it. No matter what it costs me financially, or any other how, I will always stand by a persons right to live their life without being treated as a second class citizen by anyone. Therefore it is natural to me to love my fellow human beings as if they were kin, unless they prove to me that they wish me ill, personally. I do this without exception, without prejudice. Anyone who comes into contact with me and is accepting of me, is recieved with compassion and joy, embraced without question.

I have been marginalised. I have been made a victim of by oppressive institutions, oppressive individuals, I have been forced to defend myself from such things and persons, and I will never stand by and see such done to anyone, for any reason, because I know in my heart that there IS no acceptable reason to do these things to people, that to do anything but love my fellow human beings when that is all they ever asked of anyone, when it is demanded by my faith that I do it even, would be wrong on so many levels that I cannot count them, leave alone list them completely.

I want to live in a world where the normal state of affairs is oneness, wholeness, comprehensive, regardless of borders, languages, religious dogma or political propaganda. I want to live in a world where we make progress because we not only work together, but love one another as family, no matter where we are born on the earth, without respect to skin colour or faith or sexuality or gender. I want to live in a world where the free human being is upheld by EVERYONE around them, where love is not withheld from someone because they are seen to be different, where it is given as an automatic response to every other person on the planet.

We cannot live in such a world, unless we start somewhere. I start here. With me. I feel no pressure to live that way, other than the pressure I place on myself, and the desire I carry to see the world become a happier place, with better supported individuals living on its surface.

Apparently the OP wants to be able to speak her mind, and not have anyone disagree with her.

Good luck with that.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Bluesma

I feel far more pressure from right wing groups to hate the foreign, hate the Muslim, hate the socialist, be intolerant, and hide behind a flag while doing it.

And I should point out that I have had pro - LGBT legislation used fraudulently against my family before, so when I say I feel more pressure from the right than I do from the LGBT community, you should take me seriously. Despite everything that happened to us, the wrong that was done to us in the courts, the failure of the justice system to protect us from a serial fraudster using his protected characteristic to demand money with menaces, I still stand by the statement that I feel more pressured to become a fascist, than I do to be onboard with homosexual equality.

For a start, I am, and always have been, an anti-fascist in the best sense of the word. I believe in freedom, liberty, and equality for all. I believe in it so strongly that I would happily incovenience myself or risk my life and limb to uphold it. No matter what it costs me financially, or any other how, I will always stand by a persons right to live their life without being treated as a second class citizen by anyone. Therefore it is natural to me to love my fellow human beings as if they were kin, unless they prove to me that they wish me ill, personally. I do this without exception, without prejudice. Anyone who comes into contact with me and is accepting of me, is recieved with compassion and joy, embraced without question.

I have been marginalised. I have been made a victim of by oppressive institutions, oppressive individuals, I have been forced to defend myself from such things and persons, and I will never stand by and see such done to anyone, for any reason, because I know in my heart that there IS no acceptable reason to do these things to people, that to do anything but love my fellow human beings when that is all they ever asked of anyone, when it is demanded by my faith that I do it even, would be wrong on so many levels that I cannot count them, leave alone list them completely.

I want to live in a world where the normal state of affairs is oneness, wholeness, comprehensive, regardless of borders, languages, religious dogma or political propaganda. I want to live in a world where we make progress because we not only work together, but love one another as family, no matter where we are born on the earth, without respect to skin colour or faith or sexuality or gender. I want to live in a world where the free human being is upheld by EVERYONE around them, where love is not withheld from someone because they are seen to be different, where it is given as an automatic response to every other person on the planet.

We cannot live in such a world, unless we start somewhere. I start here. With me. I feel no pressure to live that way, other than the pressure I place on myself, and the desire I carry to see the world become a happier place, with better supported individuals living on its surface.

Quoted for agreement. Well said mate

a reply to: celinem

the doctor has some poignant words to say on the subject of human behavior

a reply to: kaylaluv

I think this is where most people get confused.

No one wants to take away freedom of speech, and the like.

I can say " Gays are evil, Trans are evil, I don't like the way they live" ( This is NOT something I'd say )

But I could say it all I want with no legal repercussions.

To deny them rights, though, is entirely different. An employer cannot reject them for this premise alone, they cannot be denied housing, etc...

But people feel that arguments, being talked back to is some form of suppression or oppression or something.

If it's ever illegal for others to state their opinion on a matter in a non-violent way, I'll certainly be concerned.

Right now, I'm not concerned about this.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


I absolutely understand how someone could feel defensive and antagonized about that. If someone was bugging me about my opinions and likening me to a Nazi, I would get tired of it, too.

Oh no no no... there it is- the accusation "you have anti gay opinions".
No, no one is bugging me about my opinion- the problem is not my opinion. I am not anti LGBT!
This is being done with no knowledge at all of my opinion. It was thrown out to us without asking anyones opinions, because as he said "if you are not actively taking part in protests, or fighting of some sort, then it doesn't matter what your opinion is! You are GUILTY because of your lack of action!"

Then on to how any people that didn't take action against the Nazi's, even if they were against the Nazi's, were guilty of the crimes because of their inaction, just like us, yadda yadda yadda.....

I've also dealt with this exact same crap from feminists, using the guilt trip to get you coming to their events, or trying to get you to take part in some protest. (though in their case, I am anti feminist... just pointing out it is a technique that is used by many different activist groups)

I am thinking I might be getting more of that from the "left" because I am from California, and all of my family and most of my contacts are too. I don't know any body that is a right wing activist. In California, there is almost a competative attitude of who can prove they are the most open minded and unprejudiced.... except that it is sliding into exactly that.

I gotta say that you (and the OP) are not seeing the complete picture. This kind of "pressure" doesn't only come from the LGBT community.

You probably didn't read my first post then.

I wrote that this type of extreme polarization and attempts at provoking conflict I am seeing happening on all kinds of issues, in the US currently. It seems that there is a basic mood for conflict in which everyone wants to see themselves as a hero knight of that which is good and right, fighting evil. Moderation is boring?

Of course I don't feel pressure to accept the LGBT folks, because I already do. Why would I feel pressure to do something I already do?

Yeah, I see what you did there and I responded to it above. I accept the LGBT folks- in fact this pressure I am speaking of were not even LGBT themselves. They just saw themselves as the champions of them.

And the false dichotomy is that- there are other alternatives.
Taking part in activist events and efforts is NOT the only way to "accept" these people. Like I said, we have gay and lesbian friends, and they feel totally accepted by us and by their neighbors as well, they don't feel we are guilty of hate and oppression because we aren't out protesting and such.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Bluesma

I feel far more pressure from right wing groups to hate the foreign, hate the Muslim, hate the socialist, be intolerant, and hide behind a flag while doing it.

Well, like I said, that might have to do with where you are and who you are surrounded with. My family and friends are all from California, they are not right wing. I have never known anyone that would dare speak against gays or muslims (it would be terribly badly received in the California environment, probably as bad as a left wing opinion amongst Texans? I don't know, I am guessing).

Ok so here is a post that I really am trying to make appropriate and non-abusive. Problem is I may catch flak on every side.

I know it means nothing, but the flag on my profile is the pansexual flag...being who I am. I do not make it my go to answer if people ask me who I am. I am only saying this so that I can lay myself on the ground and expose that yes, I do indeed have some bias.

So here are the problems I see on both arguments. And yes, again with extreme honesty I will tell you now that my debate against certain actions of the LGBT arena WILL be softer.

There...now you all know in advance what I am going to say. Nobody can be surprised after this sentence.

There are two things that I wish my fellow LGBT+ sisters and brothers would start/stop doing.

1. If you are trans and transitioning, people WILL accidentally call you the wrong pronoun. I am not trans so I can’t understand your struggle. The issue I have is that while the overwhelming majority of trans community are willing to let things slide and educate, I have met some in my own life who will annihilate you verbally for messing up a pronoun from the second you meet them. This is not helpful to the cause. If we want to educate, you can’t say stuff like “YOU PIECE OF ****! HOW DARE YOU NOT CALL ME ____” when this person has never met you before. You have had ages to get used to who you are and your body. This person doesn’t know you and may not have been aware. Not an appropriate response. I HAD a friend like that….had

2. We in the LGBT+ community do need to understand that it will take time for people to make realizations and alter their thinking. There is no other way to explain it. Now bear in mind, I do love that social change is happening rapidly. I want more of it even if it pisses of conservatives. However, free-speech IS a thing and we MUST allow it. However….there is a catch to this

From the conservative/Christian/whatever side….I have some requests for you too.

1. Free speech DOES NOT MEAN that a company can’t fire you for hateful things that could damage the company. Some people want so badly for companies to be treated as individual entities with individual rights. Let them do what they will as long as they make good to the shareholders. And yet…the second a company fires a person for doing something that could jeopardize said company, they want to attack and say “they should not have done this! That was not their right!” You can’t have it both ways unless you want to accept the label of hypocrite.

2. Explain to me how someone is forcing you to feel or think something. I have two great examples of how you are very, very wrong or very, very weak-minded. First, if a person comes up and tells me that I must hate LGBT+ people…I can always say “no.” There are no legitimate, state-sanctioned penalties for me saying no. I can always walk away. I hate that conservatives tell me that as an LGBT+ member, I should never put myself in a position I know will harm me then whine about it. Then, the same conservative can be found purposefully picketing or starting # with the LGBT+ crowd and then whining about it. Just leave it be. Stop telling me “it doesn’t bother me that you are gay” and then voting to avoid gay marriage. If it truly didn’t bother you, then marriage equality wouldn’t both you either. Are you that shaky in your cracked foundation that two guys getting married somehow “ruins the sanctity of your marriage?” Is your marriage that bad? The only two people in a hetero marriage that can ruin the sanctity of that marriage is the husband and wife…period.

Second, stop avoiding all the harassment you (general you…not aimed at a specific person) have lobbed at the LGBT+ community. You don’t get to tell everyone in the community that they are disgusting and should be ‘straightened’ then turn around and cry when they lash back. You remind me of that idiot kid who purposefully kicks a big kid in the shin and runs behind your brother’s back. Just stop. Which leads me to the third problem.

3. Having equality does NOT mean you lose anything. I can’t stand this argument at all. If you lose something because of equality in marriage it is because you never had it in the first place. How pathetic is it that people who rally against marriage or trans equality and state that the country is going to fall to pieces. My partner made a great example of this. When you look at something like marriage, pretend it is a cake. Four people are in the room. Two Christians and two gay men. For years the Christians eat their cake. The gay men want equality and thus get marriage laws passed. Now here is the disconnect. People who are rampant Christians/conservatives seem to think that giving the gay couple their own cake means they will somehow lose the original cake they were eating. We in LGBT+ community don’t want to steal your cake…we just want our own.

Besides…aren’t these high and mighty religious types supposed to be all about sharing their cake?

a reply to: Konduit


Are you brave enough to also point out the sad hypocrisy of the "conservatives" as well or is it just us liberals?

I'm a family-loving, god-fearing Christian conservative. I follow the bible. Except the part about not judging others...or the part about treating even your enemies kindly...

What if you are conservative and not Christian? I care all about the people....oh btw Walmart here is your tax break so you can continue to screw everyone. Yeah...no the business is way more important than the person who we claim to care about.

Yep...we WILL make you have that baby you don't want. Who cares that you were raped.

Oh wait...you had an unwanted baby and can't afford it? SCREW YOU! I'm not paying for it. Let's take away welfare...(except for business I mean)

yeah it works both ways

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Anytime a despised minority seeks equality, there is social tension and blowback. History repeats.

Yes, change is uncomfortable, and it is more uncomfortable for some than others. It's scary for people to see that the world they were born into, the "rules" they were taught "traditionally" are no longer hard and fast. It feels scary and wrong, but that is the nature of change.

The question is, are people who are transgendered and homosexual equal to other people, or are they lesser? As to the bathroom issue, it was blown up by the NC legislators during their ill-thought late night freak-out session to prevent Charlotte from allowing "those people" to not be discriminated against.

Here is a taste of history. Because prejudice CAN be legislated. If it's NOT, then change often does not happen. Voting rights? That is an example of people wanting to turn back the clock and make "certain people's" voice go unheard, again.
link

There are, to be sure, times when the emotional impulses of an outraged people should indeed crystallize in massive demonstrations. But such situations are very rare indeed.

And precisely the question to ask now is whether the current controversy over the Negro question is one that clearly calls for direct mobilization.

Surely one thing is clear enough at this point in American history, namely, that the Negro problem cannot be solved by even the most artful piece of legislation. This kind of "progress" projected under the proposed civil rights laws is the kind of progress which is based on the assumption that people can be brought under coercive pressure to do things they are disciplined to do.

There are those who sincerely believe progress is not fashioned out of that kind of clay. There actually are true and wise friends of the Negro race who believe that a federal law, artificially deduced from the Commerce Clause of the Constitution or from the 14th Amendment, whose marginal effect will be to instruct small merchants in the Deep South on how they may conduct their business, is no way at all of promoting the kind of understanding which is the basis of progressive and charitable relationships between the races.

Mass demonstrations, in a free society, should be reserved for situations about which there is simply no doubting the correct moral course. If it is true that the Senate and the House of Representatives cannot be trusted to write a law which is manifestly just and imperatively moral, then and only then is the pressure of the mob in order.

But mob-deployment in circumstances that call for thought and discussion and mediation is a dangerous resort. [William F. Buckley Jr., 8/19/63, via Los Angeles Times]

National Review founder William F. Buckley -- argued that the "White community" was entitled to oppose measures that sought to increase enfranchisement among southern blacks because "for the time being, it is the advanced race."

I get the point you're trying to convey, but comparing being gay to being black is way off to me. I've met ex-gay people but I've never met an ex-black. I couldn't conceal being black . I think sexual preference is personal and you don't have to run out shouting to anyone that will listen what your sexual preference is.