Read: Worst Case War Scenario, WWIII: East Asia....

Daedalus3 your putting words into my mouth. i have never said that china can sustain a artillery barrage?????

dont get excited because i got you on this one...
i back-tracked because you keep on saying that i claimed something.. i back-tracked to clear it up...

Think about it..

30km from chinese border artillery range 39km. am i right to think that.. a surprise attack from 20 artillery tubes is devastrting. sustain that for 5-7 minutes

it can shoot from 2-5 rouns a minute

if we take the 5minute number 40 - 100 155mm shells already.

that could wreak any runway






bring some of these babys. in then you have trouble tracking it.



also if this fails you can use MRLS

more pictures of the battlefield

external image









a highway
web.ics.purdue.edu...


hardly inpassable terrain

EDIT: resize image

[edit on 14-5-2005 by chinawhite]

artillery in the kargil war

With the terrain being like that, then I guess artillery would be a plausible thought. Then again, look at the background in the first picture, if the battlefield was like the background, I don't think we can tow artillery all the way up there.

And also on the PLZ-45, in the 1997 international competition to provide Kuwaiti Army with a battalion (72 units) self-propelled artillery systems, the PLZ-45 surprisingly defeated US and Europe competitors to win the contract. This sale was a particularly telling assessment of the howitzer's capabilities since the Kuwaiti Army has the budget to purchase nearly whatever it wants. A battalion of howitzers were delivered to the Kuwait along with a full package of support, command and control, forward observer, and radar vehicles. In 2001, the Kuwaitis ordered an additional 74 howitzers due to its excellent performance.

You idiot..those photos are of what part of tibet??

Do you even know??!!


There a part of the Tibetian PLATEAU !! And NOT the region where you plan to move your artis into !!

Are you seriously trying to tell me that those pics are of the border region between tibet and arunachal pradesh..!!!??!!
I'm writng this post with freakinb map of that area in front of me because THERE's no bl00dy map of tibet whih gives that kind of resolution on the net!!
Wonder why??!!
GEt out your atalas and SEE.. Open you eyes dammit!!
Check for the Takpo/Sikung regions!!
The average altitude is 4000m!!
The average contour only holds for about 5 km!!
The adjacent contours differ in height from each other by 1000m
Get out your calculator if you cannot calculate mentally!!
Using the abv data I calculate the the average rate of ascent/descent is

Thats a rise of 1 metre every five metres!! On uncleared rough land!! W/O roads

Have you ever been to tibet? I doubt..
Well neither have I but I think now that I know more abt it geographically than you do..


Where is that tar road? Do you know? If it IS the nearest tar road to the region then it should the Lhasa Chengdu highway..
Thats over 200klicks from the region of our discussion!!!

Hell I could show you maps/pics of Assam which is also at that distance from the border!! And those pics/maps would have highways/cities/airports you name it!!


And even if you're going to use the artis for 5 mts or 5 days...
You're first going to have to pull em' into position!! Thats what I've been trying to say is impossible!!
arrrrghh how daft can one get!!

As for the Kargil war.. We HAVE roads leading up to the war theatre..
If you want I'll give you detailed schematics of the region vis-vis war supply routes..

Pleae find out what region you're giving pics of before you go posting like this..
The plateau is 300km frm this border and the tian shan pics you've posted are over 1000km from this border!!
You've achieved a rep on this forum and you strive HARD to maintain


Look at pics of the Kanchenjunga range for a more "accurate" description of the region..

And if you're going to use MRLs then well aren't we just going to have to cut of supply routes on the chengdu-Lhasa axis..

You a have a major/only Lifeline highway only 50km from our border..
(note this highway is close to India at the burma border.. not close near the Tawang AFB.. This highway is abt 200km from tawang)

Btw you haven't answered me.. It the Lhasa Qinchuan rail route finished?

I don't know much about how they tow artillery, so I'll stay out of this for the most part. However, if the terrain was like the snowy mountains in the background of the pictures, I doubt they could put artillery or even MLRS there.

Hmm, if there was a mojor Indian/Chinese conflict there would be a heavy naval engagement as well. The Indians would be able to interdict Chinese sea commerce travelling across the Indian Ocean.
China would be hard pressed to protect their commerce routes in the INdian Ocean

PLAN just recently got 8 more Kilo subs. If I remember correctly, the Chinese sneaked a Han class sub near Japanese waters, but somehow the Japanese EP-3 Orion failed to detect it. It finally detected the sub when it surfaced and the crew stuck a Chinese flag on it

Then again, the Indian navy is also quite capable, also with Kilos and many other capable subs and surface ships. The Invincible class of Harrier-Carriers should probably be launching a lot of missions. It would be interesting to see how the -52C DDGs fare.

I think a worst case scenario would be another ice age.

I hate the cold.

I am saying that China would have great difficulty operating their navy so far from home waters and virtually on the doorstep of India. Especially with Indian air domance over the Northen Indian ocean and a decent navy .
Any Chinese surface units IMO would be farely quickly overwhelmed, the subs may take a bit longer but their effectiveness would be significantly reduced so far from home ie. they couldn't provide any cover for Chinese oil shipments from the Middle East.

Range of artillery 39km - airbase 30km across border - still 9km in chinese territory whats the problem?? terrain .. nope even terrain i even posted pictures.

they do have roads through the mountains. those maps are paved roads.. they dont take into account mountain trails.


Those pictures are everywhere.. you asked if you needed roads to tow artillery i showed u tibet not the battle areas.

nearly the whole region of tibet is over 4000m its a plateau.. do you know what that means???

Omg how slow can one get.. move those artillery in place by helicopter or tow by a truck. supply by helicopter.. Dont say its impossible its not.. artillery has been used in snow before.


This whole artillery thing started because you cant understand english

then u throw around accusation about me modifly my post

remember i said airbases closer.. then you didn't read what i said and turn this into a flame war that you know nothing about...


Rogue1 do you know about artillery ??? if you do is this possible

very high resolution map od tibet
jules.unavco.org...

highways in tibet

Over the last decade, China nearly doubled the length of its road transport network in Tibet to nearly 40,000 km. It has added more than 2,000 km of highways per year on an average in the last 10 years.

And, since the late beginning in the 1990s, China has invested nearly 10 trillion Yuan in Tibetan highway construction.

external image
www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz...

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

im quoting you

look at the common border region between Bhutan,China and Nepal..
there's no roads for at least 100 km from that region..
Just how do you plan to move mechanised divs. SAMs et etc into the region..

You asked if you needed roads

you cant even remember what you said

Daedalus3 said: "who am i whats my name"

Are you lost

you idiot

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Range of artillery 39km - airbase 30km across border - still 9km in chinese territory whats the problem?? terrain .. nope even terrain i even posted pictures.

they do have roads through the mountains
There everywhere.. you asked if you needed roads to tow artillery i showed u tibet not the battle areas.

nearly the whole region of tibet is over 4000m its a plateau.. do you know what that means???
the pictures i got are from Ngari..

ngari prefecture is right next to the indian your talking about..

Omg how slow can one get.. move those artillery in place by helicopter or tow by a truck. supply by helicopter.. Dont say its impossible its not.. artillery has been used in snow before.
This whole artillery thing started because you cant understand english

then u throw around accusation about me modifly my postremember i said airbases closer.. then you didn't read what i said and turn this into a flame war that you know nothing about...
Rogue1 do you know about artillery ??? if you do is this possible

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

where the hell is ngari

You posted pics of the plateau and tian shin.. thats what the links say
the plateau is 300km for the region of discussion..

There are NO roads in the region
Im' talking about TAKPO and SIKUNG not ngari..
NGARI IS THE BL00dy PLATEAU ITSELF!!

We are talking about a regoin within the kanchenjunga range!!!

You can't read maps..
The Tibetian plateau I repeat is over 300km from the border!!!
Comprendez!!??!!

And when I said avg. 4000m altitude I meant highest 5000 lowest 3000.. not a damn flatland 4000m high..
remember the avg rate of ascent descecnt is 1 metre every 5 horizontal metres!!
That IS NOT flat land!!

Now you're airlifting artillery using helis!!

Which helis?? Mi-17s ??!!
Do you know how much each of those arits you posted before weigh??!
how much lift each helicopter the PLA has??! NO
DOn't go changing topics and then posting EVEN MORE preposterous stuff!!

Let me make myself clear

I am talking about the region between the 91st and 93rd longitude & the 28th and 29th latitude!!
Thats is NOT the tibetian plateau or Ngari!!
The Plateau does NOT border India!!

There are NO roads leading to or in the abv quardened region..
The closest road is the Lhasa-chengdu highway..

You know NOTHING of tibetian topology/geography!!
And nothing about moving mechanised units..towing or airlifting

Just stop this nonesense at once!!
Don't blame me for misinterpreting you
I am not going to let you get away with saying that you can use artillery on those "near" IAF AFBs when ist JUST NOT POSSIBLE!!
How old are you chinawhite??!!13 .. 15?? Gosh yuo don't even live in china I live closer to the region than you do!!

sorry for that post i just realised we were talking about lhoka like 30secs after i posted that

Originally posted by Daedalus3


Now you're airlifting artillery using helis!!

Which helis?? Mi-17s ??!!

Do you know how much each of those arits you posted before weigh??!
how much lift each helicopter the PLA has??! NO
DOn't go changing topics and then posting EVEN MORE preposterous stuff!!

No i didn't even mention the tow artillery you mentioned it then i showed you towed artillery range... see i haven't changed my story

do some back-tracking dont get confused with what i said and what you said

are you confused am i typing to fast

i know they cant lift one whole artillery tube at one time but it might take a month to get all the gear ready..

China has the mil-6 heavy lift helicopter . But only 3. they mght be assigned the task.



didn't you know
do some research

And for resupply use the russian mil-17 . china has over 200 of these

No i didn't even mention the tow artillery you mentioned it then i showed you towed artillery range... see i haven't changed my story

Then what kind of artillery were you planning to use ??! hand geld artillery??
anti grav artillery?? Artillery on wheels that "somehow" just manage to navigate into the region

didn't you know that you would be within the range of strike aircraft in that one month you were playing lego with artillery pieces in the mountains??
Or are you telling me that CHina has SAMs miraculously placed in those regions where even arti can't get to??

And now will your interceptors come all the way from Lhasa and or Chengdu to intercept thses strike aircraft?
C'mon dude you think this is a turn based game where we wait for you to set up your artillery and SAMs and only respond after you do so??!!


[edit on 15-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

Daedalus3 i have figured out why the maps on the internet say that those areas
are undeveloped..

its quite funny if you think about it

i think i know which road maps your looking at over the net and they still rfer to areas under indian control as china



now do you realise why these places have no roads.

But still these map only refer to high ways not mountain trails

Originally posted by Daedalus3

No i didn't even mention the tow artillery you mentioned it then i showed you towed artillery range... see i haven't changed my story

Then what kind of artillery were you planning to use ??! hand geld artillery??
anti grav artillery?? Artillery on wheels that "somehow" just manage to navigate into the region

didn't you know that you would be within the range of strike aircraft in that one month you were playing lego with artillery pieces in the mountains??

Or are you telling me that CHina has SAMs miraculously placed in those regions where even arti can't get to??

And now will your interceptors come all the way from Lhasa and or Chengdu to intercept thses strike aircraft?
C'mon dude you think this is a turn based game where we wait for you to set up your artillery and SAMs and only respond after you do so??!!

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

how is india going to notice 20 artillery tubes in the mountains. Russian survalince tech is not that advanced to see a artillery camp that small . And the americans aren't going to be using their 4 sateillites to monitor the chinese indian border.

What survillence is india going to use???
they dont have spy sateillites if UAV enters chinese border it will be shot down.

If china puts 2-3 batteries of HQ-2 sams in the town of cona then it will give air defence for the artillery

Long range sams have ranges of excess of 30km the russian S-300PMU has max range of 90km. you dont have to put it next to it

my rough estimate of the distance between cona and tawang is 45-50km if we put the artillery 6-11km closer to indian border we could target tawang.

now tell me if thats impossible. i didn't even knnow it was so close to a town you wouldn't even need to bring in so much helicopters



[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Daedalus3 i have figured out why the maps on the internet say that those areas
are undeveloped..

its quite funny if you think about it

i think i know which road maps your looking at over the net and they still rfer to areas under indian control as china

now do you realise why these places have no roads.

But still these map only refer to high ways not mountain trails

Thats because thy're all chicom propaganda maps..
You figured it now.. I'd posted this fact about 10-15 posts back..

One cannot see the border region properly and that crude demarkation of yours is very ..umm..crude..

By correlating your map with ones I've got.. we come down to the neares "trail" at about 50-60 km from the border on the chinese side.
Tawang is another 20-25 km within the Indian border..

Now:
1.
assuming that those trials are not trekking/ 4x4 vehicle trails and proper truck routes

You'd still have those 50-60 km on the chinese side + the 20-25 km on the Indian side.. thats a minimum of 70km to overcome..

And the latest irony is this:
I just found out that Tawang is not a major AFB..
It holds no fighter squadron as it is a STOL runway..
So only planes like the AN-32,Caribou etc, etc operate out of there..
All that trouble to take out such a crappy Airfield..

The squadrons are based at Tezpur,jorhat etc. whihc are 100-150km Inland from the border..Hence out of out of MRL reach too

Now tracking of mech/troops movements on the opp side of the border are what UAVs are meant for..
We have the same ones you got from Israel (Harpy) plus many indigenous types which are also used as practice drones..(lakshya)

Pray.. what will shoot down these UAVS in those hilly regions where artis have difficulty getting around??
You have permanently stationed stinger troops at the borders???
No one does that.. esp on such a low intensity border..
Infact shooting down of a UAV itself will point to recent mobilisation of the region thus prompting further means to acquire intelligence on the region..

And India does have spy satellites...
Resolution is classified of course.. I would put it at around 50-100 meters..

Also I'm sorry you didn't know that countries like the US "sell" spy photos to other allied/ neutral countries..

Thats mainly how Pakistan gets to know about activities on the Indian side..

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Daedalus3]