Read: Worst Case War Scenario, WWIII: East Asia....

There's really nothing to speculate about here. The PNAC (Project for the New American Century) has clearly layed out the global agenda. A few quotes :

"fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars"

"Reposition U.S. forces to respond to 21st century strategic realities by shifting permanently-based forces to Southeast Europe and Southeast Asia, and by changing naval deployment patterns to reflect growing U.S. strategic concerns in East Asia."

"Develop and deploy global missile defenses to defend the American homeland and American allies, and to provide a secure basis for U.S. power projection around the world."

"Control the new “International Commons” of space and “cyberspace,” and pave the way for the creation of a new military service – U.S. Space Forces – with the mission of space control."

"Exploit the “Revolution in military affairs” to insure the long-term superiority of U.S. conventional forces."

"while adversaries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea are rushing to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons as a deterrent to American intervention in regions they seek to dominate."

Let's see....Iraq.....quite likely Iran.....quite likely Syria.....not sure about North Korea at this point. Yep we're on target (no pun intended) !!!

Full document reference:
www.newamericancentury.org...

I also liked an earlier reference to the war of terror ending before WWIII. Sounds like a quote I read somewhere along the lines of 'The war on terror will end one week after the war on drugs ends'.

brill


[edit on 17-1-2005 by brill]

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The War on Terror will be over before any WW3 starts (at least we won't be dealing with petty insurgency).

please turn on Fox news (your favourite news source), listen what they have said.------"there is no end of war again terror"

so, fake new yorker, please stop this.

WWIII won't start from east asia. it is impossible since US, China, JP all deeply connected to each other econimically. global economy never been such networked, all these major countries, frankly speaking, controlled either by CEOs or by businessmen in governments. You think they will start WWIII? keep dreaming.

The only reason for WWIII is energy resource or religion.

For the first reason, I would say, in 30 years, new energy resources are pretty much very likely to be popular (the reason they are not popular at this moment is NOT becauset they are not good, but because energy giants need to make sure they really have finished the business with oil already, otherwise, do you think they will give it up and make new fresh start new business? keep dreaming)

So, the second reason, is religion. All the matter of brain wash from each side. I read a article written by a father of dead soilder in Iraq, he said: Those middest people hate us, they just hate us and want to kill us because we are American and we are rich"-------you see, same as "American hate us because we belive Ala"

There are several brainwashed American in this board, pretty funny too.

Back to the topic, I would say, invading Iran could be the starting point of WWIII.



[edit on 17-1-2005 by proteinx]

please turn on Fox news (your favourite news source), listen what they have said.------"there is no end of war again terror"

You can't offer anything but insults at me, can you?

For the first reason, I would say, in 30 years, new energy resources are pretty much very likely to be popular (the reason they are not popular at this moment is NOT becauset they are not good, but because energy giants need to make sure they really have finished the business with oil already, otherwise, do you think they will give it up and make new fresh start new business? keep dreaming)

You obviously haven't done even the slightest bit of research on this, have you? There is no energy source that can economically replace oil, and there won't for decades. The only real possibility is looking to be hydrogen. Care to go into the huge hurdles that need to be overcome there?

There are several brainwashed American in this board, pretty funny too.

Yea, the Americans are brainwashed. It just always happens to be the Russians who seem almost completely unable to explain themselves beyond basic statements.

Back to the topic, I would say, invading Iran could be the starting point of WWIII.

Who exactly has the ability to come to aid to Iran? China and Russia would be the only ones with even the slightest bit of motive (mostly China), and they lack the economic and military capabilities to go to war.

That's the reason there won't be a War on Terror when there's a WW3. No strong nations have the capability to stand up to America. No on in the world is going to risk a fight with America for years to come, if it even comes in this century.

My words are:

There are several brainwashed American in this board, pretty funny too.

And you changed my words to :

Yea, the Americans are brainwashed.

Now we can see who is sooooooooo brain washed that even can automatically change meaning of one english sentence and he himself even didnot realize it.

What is brain wash? this is the so live example.

[qoute]What is brain wash? this is the so live example.

Do you just not get sarcasm? Maybe if you read the sentence after, "Yea, Americans are brainwashed" you would have understood...

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
[qoute]What is brain wash? this is the so live example.

Do you just not get sarcasm? Maybe if you read the sentence after, "Yea, Americans are brainwashed" you would have understood...


let me tell you something, redneck american:

when I say "serveral brain washed american..." I mean some american are deadly brain washed, like you.

And when you heard my words, you automatically transfer it in your heads like this : ProteinX is saying American are brain washed.

Can you see, you automatically take yourself as of all the American. Why? Because you think every American is just like you--- plain arrogant and igronrant you.---Because Fox news broadcasting same people like you day after day. Sadly to tell you: The American I know are obivously not like you.

And, that alone tells you are brain washed. deadly. And you need to read. drink less beer, pal, read more books. or, you can spend more time feed your pigs in your backyard.

plus, why not tell us where you are really from instead of claiming youself from New York.

[edit on 18-1-2005 by proteinx]

Originally posted by revengeogmakhno
I would like to commend "Disturbed Deliverer" for some clear strategic thinking and comments.

Daedalus3,
Your scenario is an entertaining fantasy but nothing like that is happening.
Russia-China-India is the new axis of evil? I suppose if evil means making contingency plans to oppose US expansion. If you had any serious contacts with those countries or had spent serious any time in them, I think you would quickly realize that the recent arms sales and cooperation between those countries comes from convenience not love.
With the big power (the US) saying that it reserves the right to act unilaterally and doing just that, it is logical for the defensive instincts of the other players to move them closer together. None of those countries has any interest or desire for a direct confrontation with the US. China isn't even interested in a direct confrontation with Taiwan and the present regime in India is in absolutely no mood to tangle with Pakistan. Even if they were in the mood, they are smart enough not to.

Expanded conflict is most likely to take place in the Middle East not the Far East and that expansion would most likely be a US move.
Syrian and Iran don't want a direct confrontation with the US either. They are more than happy just to survive while doing what they can to quietly oppose the US in Iraq.

My axis of evil is something I wish to create not destroy..

My build up of events is quite plausible, the Indo pak section almost materialised in January 2002, check up on that if you want..parlimetns attack happened..

And As for me having to do anything to do with those countries, I AM INDIAN...And I KNOW that there is more than just a business relationship between India and Russia..trust me..I've met many a Russian and they speak fondly of no other nation as much a India...:p

Now didn't that come back and bite ya in the rear!!

And a middle astern conflict has NO SCOPE of widening into a world war..impossible..somebody who supportsds that give me a build up of events like I did..most obvious flashpoint..Indo-Pak-China..I can counter any claim that says it isn't so...REad my sceanorio carefully and try to point out flaws..the Indo-Pak one is quite flawless IMHO..

Dont' anyone think World War III has just been started when George Bush declared the War On Terror.

No it isn't a WW..Nobody will challenge America's actions as of now..unless America forcefully intervenes in Chechnya, Taiwan, or Kashmir..and IMO they are already intervening in Taiwan..how'd did the chicoms let it get sooo out of hand??..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
India is not damaged severely by the tsunami...its the only tsunami
stricken country that has refused foreign aid and is helping other
tsunami stricken countries..
But its navy is stretched out in relief OPs..Lakshwadeep (1000k of
western shores)..Andaman & Nicobar (1800k off eastern
shores)...Srilanka and Indonesia(Aceh)..Over 35 ships, 25
heli/aircraft, and over 6000 personnel..largest ever peace ops by the
Indian armed forces..

Here's my scenario:

Its based on the post Dec 13 2001 parliment attacks...
Indian Parliment attacked by terrorists..fat slobby politicians realise
that the war on terro has come to their doorsteps..
wave their arms in anger..
allow armed forces to do 'whatever necessary' to end insurgency..
music to Indian army/AF/navy commanders who have been wanting to carry out crossborder precision strikes to:
1. Obviously to end insurgency that has been bleeding India for the
last decade.
2.Show India's prowess in special ops..They have the capability just
never got the go ahead due some "stupid" peace talks now and then
(notice for Israel its the other way around..precision strikes first-
then peace talks)

Stage I: INDO-PAK War

-India carries out strikes in POK (pak occpied kashmir)..with Jaguars,
Mirage 2000 and MiG27M carrying LGBs ...
-Simultaneously special op forces inserted at various points along the
border capture miltant posts and target paint more sites for aerial
assault..
-Then a battalion moves into POK under the cover of Mi-17 attack helis
and does a mop up of all terror camps....
-The Indian forces then withdraw back into their own territory while
MiG-29s and Su-30 MKIs maintain air superiority...
All this done from say 00:00hrs to 9:00hrs...
India happy...END ..?? NOT!!
-Pakistan fuming over unprovoked violation of territory/airspace..
-Launches full scale assault at retreating indian forces and continues
assault into IOK...(Indians instructed not to retaliate unitl pakis
infringe indian territory)..
-Once Pakis push into IOK..India retaliates and is prepared for such an
attack
-India forces the pakis over the LOC again and now hold positions deep within
POK..
-Pakistan more infuriated, opens fronts down south in Punjab,
Rajasthan, and Gujarat
- Long battle ensues there, but eventually India prevails...
-Army commanders disobey orders to retreat and push deep into
pakistan... (in th 1971 war they were ordered to retreat due to
ceasefire and consider that a big mistake)
-Frightened Paksitan uses tactical nuke(s) on advancing Indian army to
try and scare then back..
-It doesn't work, India pushes on carries out conventional bombing of
all pak installations at a scale equivalent to the bombing of
afghanistan, thus totally crippling Pakistans defence structure..
-Pakistan implores China and USA its only allies to prevent any further
loss of face/land....

Stage II: Enter the Dragon

-china obliges by moving forces to Indian border and increases
insurgency in eastern Indian states.
-The move works, India panicks and slows down the tempo in Pakistan.
-Indian forces begin a slow and organised withdrawalto border positions
while redepositing forces on the Chinese border...
-The US trying frantically to diffuse the situation, is glad that it
has averted 'nuclear' war by preventing India from replying to
pakistan's nuke attack by using nukes themselves..
-China now viewing the entire situation a completete botchery of
relations with India tries to make the best of it by moving into Nepal
and a few eastern Indian states in which they've started insurgency
ops.
-India now caught in a pincer war frantically engaes China in the
eastern front.
-China, taken aback by a 'war-ready'/warring Indian Force realises that
it may need more troops to maintain control of its newly acquired
territory.
- It diverts more of its east coast forces to be deployed in the Indian
theatre..while simultaneously encouraging Paksitan to hurt the
retreating India as much as possible
-Pakistan, feeling complacent that India will not respond to a military
nuclear strike, drops another nuke on receding Indian forces..
-That pinches India a little too much, caught in a pincer war with two
countries, nuked 2 times already, India orders a complete nuke rsponse
to Pakistans actions.
-India still avoiding civilian population, completely destroys Pakistans
military structure by carrying out 15-20 precision sub-kiloton strikes
at various bases,industries etc... There are obviously 1000s of
civilian deaths too
-Pakistan now under the danger of losing its sovereignity and control
of it nuke forces(Indians have been hunting for the nukes and the C&C
centres)..now decides it has nothing to lose and launches a nuke at
Bangalore..India's IT city..making waves in the international tech
front..
-That now prompts Russia, who was supporting India completely in the
PAk conflict but is some what hesitant to take sides in the Indo-China
conflict, to drop around 20,000 paratrooper troops into Pakistan. This
is to attain control of the remaining nukes that Pakistan has..
-The US afraid that terrorists organisation might use the opportunity
to swipe a few remaining warheads, does the same..
-Now Paksitan is occupied by 3 countries all at once out of which 2 of
them don't really like each other..

Stage III: The East

-Meanwhile Japan just re-awakening its military status sees the current
situation as its best opportunity to pinch China on the east Coast,
does so..
-North Korea sitting impatiently until now as events aorund it unfold,
freaks out at the Japanese move and launches a missile,unarmes(but no
one knows that) over Japan and into the Pacific..Just to scare Japan
into receding...
-The US already caught in South Asia views the NK act as dangerous, and
it decides(based on its intel) that NK is poised to strike somewhere
(Japan SK, USA)..
-The US informs the japs and the S koreans who immediately boost
defences..NK takes this act as a precursor to an invasion and does the
unthinkable..Fires mortar and artillery shells into SK positions..The
Korean war has begun
-In a day, 200,000 koreans die, along with 15000 US troops(In Indo-Pak war uptill now 100,000 have died in comparision..
Japan sensing that NK will start chucking nukes everywhere liek Pak did..Invades NK from the North...NK manages to get on nuke off before it loses control
-Where does the nuke go?..Not any city, but it wipes out a US carrier
fleet just off the coast of taiwan..

Stage IV : Taiwan

China, now realising that India is not worth it..withdraws from India
(Not Nepal) and uses the taiwan nuke attack to transfer 100,000 troops
into taiwan in matter of hrs...Taiwan manages reduce that figure to

85,000 no less..China is now in control of Taiwan, and surprisingly the
Taiwanese people welcome them, in order to avoid more blood shed..
-The US caught with its pants down, never expected China to move so
many troops over to Taiwan, especially with China being entrenched in
India..
The loss of a carrier fleet is too great, sothe US also drops troops into

NK which is , like PAk, filled with troops from 3 countries, namely
Japan,China and the US..
SK stays out of NK, thanking its stars that it wasn't nuked..
-The US tries to gauge whether taking Taiwan back will be feasible, but
with the taiwanese not wanting any more bloodshed, and the chinese well
dug in(they've planned for this for years) it seems inadvisable..
-The US is not going to walk away from this defeated though..
they lost a carrier fleet, lost taiwan; US needs to regain some ground..

Stage V :Nepal & Tibet

-The US devises a daring plan:
initially trynig to hold India back from going to war, the US now coerces an already furious India to liberate Nepal, promising air support..
- B-2s,F-117s, and F-22s fly countless sorties, from Diego Garcia,Europe and Missouri, into the region pounding away on Chinese defences in Nepal Tibet, and a pro-China Burma..
Cruise Missiles from ships/subs in the bay of bengal complement the air assault at night..
while Indian troops pour across the borders, first securing Nepal and then moving into tibet..
-All this happens in the cover of darkness, the 1st ever joint Indo-US
military ops in history..
-By daybreak India has "liberated" Nepal & Burma while it is deep
within Tibet.
- China is SHOCKED..they never pre-calculated such a move...
Russia is also quite perplexed...

This is all that I've theorised until now; Now im tired and I've
included every major power in this except the EU..(Britain is in, where
the US is..)
Maybe you guys can pick up from here? I'll add more later..

how was it so far?..pretty realistc IMHO ..at least the Indo-Pak bit

EDIT: OMG I didn't know my point format would make it so lengthy

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Daedalus3]

Anyone has any idea how South East Asia will fit into this?Singapore , Malaysia?They control the Straits of Malacca, and Singapore's Naval and Air Dominance in the straits could be a effective bottleneck for any Chinese forces attempting to seize the Straits for the purpose of a naval counteroffensive down and up into the Indian Ocean.

Chinese naval forces do not currently have the logistical and infrastural support needed to leave the coastline...The only credible blue water force they have is the SSBN force..which would only be used in a nuke situation...
The above theorised conflict would not involve Indo-China naval confrontation, because the chinese wouldn't be able to get a fleet across:
Singapore etc. would cry foul...Also the chinese surface ships are sort-of blockaded by the US pacific fleet...
India on the other hand could go into the Pacific with its carrier(s) fleets, each having a surveyable zone of 1000k radius..But in the above scenario 1 carrier would be definitely in the Arabian Sea, wardnig off any seaborne attack on Bombay fomr Pak, and the other would be loitering around the Indian Ocean on alert..neither country would find it feasible to engage their navy. against each other.

The Straits of Malacca are jointly patrolled by Singapore and India, India more so because the carriers are fitted for such a job, the Singapore navy remains to its port areas, while the IN patrols the entrance to the straits, which is in international waters....
IMO the Singapore/Malaysian/Australian forces would be mostly involved in covert ops if the picked sides..Officially I'm sure all would claim to be neutral..

[edit on 18-1-2005 by Daedalus3]

Daedalus3

Your scenario is definitely a fantasy. The near future will bear this out. Then we will see who laughs. But I am not interested in laughing (I am being very honest about that). Continued peace in the sub-continent would be fine, thank you. Right now the prospects for that are quite good. In fact, looking over the last 57 years, it is hard to think of times when the prospects were better. I would think that you would thank the heavens for that rather than talk up a twisted war scenario for India and Pakistan.

As for what Russians think of India itself, for the most part, they couldn't care less but if India buys their stuff and consistently aligns itself at least neutrally or better yet against the US, then that is great. If India's policies were different, that attitude would flip in a SECOND!

What do you think Russians will say to your face? Of course they will speak highly of India. If you were from Thailand, they'd speak highly of Thailand. When I am in Egypt, Egyptians speak highly of Canada even though those same people hadn't thought about it in the previous 365 days. It would be more impressive if you were from Brazil and you met Russians talking up India. Now I can give you credentials and experience that would surprise you and substantially back up my point but it is very tedious to get into all that.

I suspect you know very well that this Indian regime does not want a confrontation with Pakistan. The climate is very different than it was even 5 years ago. The mutually owned nukes help nail that down in a big way - something you also know. Sure both would prefer to have Kashmir but they are cagey enough to only want it cheaply. They are both very aware that isn't happening any time soon.
The only way Pakistan and India would fight now is if they are seriously maneuvered into it. There could be outsiders who want to see it and stage terrorist acts to incite it. That is the wild card but something they are also on the lookout for.
Which brings us to the terrorist act you speak of. If India wanted to take a shot at Pakistan, what better excuse? But it didn't happen. Cooler heads quickly prevailed and thank god for that.
The fact is that both sides realize that open conflict is WAY too risky and way too costly, more risky and more costly than ever. That is why they've avoided it for over 30 years. Even when there were daily skirmishes in Kashmir, it never escalated to war. Sure, lots of hot talk and threats but what else do you expect of politicians for domestic consumption in the subcontinent? It's not going to happen any time soon.

Well at least you seem to have a positive attitude toward Russian-Indian-Chinese cooperation. On that we definitely agree.

The Indo-Pak war scenario did not happen because the US assured India that terrorism would stop..and it has..its 1/10 of what it was then..so ,yes, the war scenrio is mostly likely not going to be played out in reality considering present developments..I agree..but that doesn't mean that such a scenario is fantasy..

If you know/remember, prior to the Kargil war in 1999, India and Pakistan were at the highest level of peace since independance. There was a whole cross-country bus route thing, where leaders shook hands and hugged each other...this was just 2 months before the war. It seems that the Pakis had already begun the insurgency ops during these peace talks/gestures..thats why they were in such well-entrenched positions only a cpl of months later...
Again Musharraf visited India, shook hands with chiefs of military staff, Took pics at the Taj Mahal, visited is childhood home in Old Delhi..etc etc..
again a few months before the Parliment attack..Believe me war plans were made..India was ready to make the first move..War did not break out only for 1 reason:
the US arm-twisted the pakis like hell to close those camps down and the pakis were already under immense pressure to break ties with the talibs, a major source of kashmir militancy..end result the kashmir insurgency loses support from pakistan and dies like a flower nipped in the bud..



I don't want war to break out in the subcontinent..God, I live there!
But let me tell you one thing , using current events as a yardstick to predict the future(esp. in Indo-Pak affairs) is extremely risky...The Indians have learnt the hard way...


As for Indo-Russia relations..:

1. India is the only country(non-former USSR) which completely supports Russia on Cechnya
2. Pre 9/11 Russia was the only country that supported India's stance on Kashmir.
3. Russia was the only nation that did not condemn/slap sanctions on India after the 1998 nuke tests.
4. Russia collaborates with no other country(non frmer USSR) more than India on matters of science, technology, military,space,energy etc.
5. In 1971 when the US threatened to intervene on the behalf of Pakistan by moving a carrier fleet into the Bay of Bengal, the russians responded by declaring that they would go to war if US aircraft violated indian airspace.
6. Indian and Russian instructors trained iraqi pilots in the Iran-Iraq war. My father was one of them..I grew up amongst russian fighter pilots, their chocolates, matrushka dolls and most of all love...
7.The northern alliance in afghanistan, which was the main opposition to the taliban was funded/backed jointly by Russia and India.
Infact the IAF has an AF base in Tajikistan(Former USSR) which borders north Afghanistan, the home of the northern alliance.

Don't be so knieve as to regard Indo-Soviet ties as mere business relationship, because its not..

Daedalus3
Ok, at least we are coming down to some honest and civilized discussion and I appreciate that (in comparison to the hate-fests going on around here).

I am glad that you mentioned the American influence in this situation because I think that is an important factor (along with nukes) in why an India-Pakistan conflict is not going to happen. The climate now highlights three large features;
1) concerns over what the increased aggressiveness and presence of the US in Asia will lead to
2) concerns over securing energy resources
3) concerns over general economic stability

These have pushed Kashmir into the background. Take those out and bring a loud BJP crowd into power in India and then bets are off. But how many years will that take?
Plans for attacking Pakistan? Well I would assume they have at least a dozen and practice each of them!

I am glad that you have good experiences with Russians and I wish that was a representative sample of Russian attitudes but I don't see evidence of that. Each of the points that you make about Russian-Indian cooperation are valid but they are also based on geo-political and economic expediency. With the US in a very aggressive phase that cooperation will no doubt continue and it should. Believe me I am all for it but I also know the Russians (man I could tell some stories!).
Let me express it another way; there are at least a dozen and more countries that India has closer cultural and emotional ties to before Russia and that is the angle I am coming from. Without the geopolitical stuff, there aren't many reasons for either country to think of eachother.

Two further points;
1) There has been recent talk of pipelines possibly being built across Pakistan into India. Can you add anything to that?

2) The part of your war scenario that I really think passes into serious fantasy is the idea that a Pakistani call for help could bring China in on India's other border. What of value does China gain from that given the cost) India's ambitions against Pakistan would not go past Kashmir. I am absolutely convinced that China would sit it out, watch how others reacted and try to play a brokeage role. (this within a window of the next 5 years)

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The EU does have a limited military:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Plus, its obvious that if one nation were to get attacked, all of the EU would step in now. It doesn't need to be official or written down.

That states that the EU is allowed a say in what NATO does, and that NATO will defend the EU, not that the EU has a millitary!!

For China to stand a chance against the United States they have to drastically improve their quality of life in the country and quickly catch up to American technology levels. China might have the man power but that means nothing against a military that is better equiped.

I've heard political scientists and economists say that it could take China as little as 10 or 20 years to surpass the United States.

I'll state again without the US troops in Nato they are at best a small peacekeeping force.

NATO hasn't been fully supported by any country for 20 years. I would'nt count on NATO alliances or troops playing a large roll in any huge war. Besides a new world war would almost certainly split NATO and UN alliances so severly they would be rendered useless.

revengeogmakhno:

Very nice post, I really enjoy it, especially the first one. The problem for the indian friends is that they always live in dreams. at the same time, lack of meat cause malfunction of protein sometime, and it will create the problem for them to realize what is dream and what is reality.

He kept desicribing the secnario about the conflicts between China and Inida and finally India can conque Tibet.

Just want to remind you guys: Indian at this moment still cannot even produce a single bullet and they just start to build the first high way, and China is going to send another group of men to out space by their own this year and has become the 4th largest trade partner in the world.------even though, of course, we really still cannot catch up Indian friends words from their mouths and their great ambition: Their officials just claimed that they are going to send man to mars by 2007 and the project will cost only 2 Million dollars to prove they "have bigger plan than China". They have too many plans and many jokes in the world already, and when Russia want to sell weapons to them, they really take Businessman's words seriously. You know, how funny it could be. Besides, They seem never really try to understand why Russia keep selling better weapons to indian than to China? The only reason is that Russian know Indian only know buying, they know clearly Indian lack of the ability to DO anything, to PRODUCE anything. So, there is no risky at all for them.

Indians are too proud of them, but proud for nothing basically. The last empire for them was thousands years ago and they were colonized about 400 years ago. Be realistic, working hard is what indian shall do to catch up the rest of world, they'd better stop doing empty talks and dreaming days and nights.-----start from taking some proteins at first.

Now, you see, if you connect all these together, you can understand India is a nation full of people indulged in fantasy (it is their highest stage according to their Buda philosiphy: Fantasy and dreaming all days and nights--------the highest stage of a monk in India is be able to sit there days and nights and doing nothing--------and this kind of Buda spirit, doing nothing (they call it thinking), is deeply rooted in Indian's life. With time passing by, most indians have this similar type of personalities.......

We used to like fantasy too when we were dreaming in communism system, thanks god we waked up long time ago already and nobody really yell unrealistic things, even regarding taiwan, most people are still very conservative, most of Chinese talking about "Stop seperation movement" instead of "Conque Taiwan". We know there is still a long way to go to catch up western technology, but we are working hard and we catch up faster and faster. (And our indian friends talk faster and faster :-) )

good thing for them them is that many Indians begin to realize that, but for this guy , it will still take sometime. afterall, he is still a kid.



[edit on 18-1-2005 by proteinx]