Michelle Obama Tells Men To 'Be Better'

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: onequestion

I don't see anything wrong in her message. She's telling people to hold themselves to a higher standard, something more people should do.

No, lets be honest here. She is telling only men to better themselves.

a reply to: onequestion

I remember when Michelle Obama and her mother went to china and treated all the people there like personal slaves and servants to the point where people quit their jobs at one of the hotels, and others had their lives turned upside down for the worse, all because of how incredibly hypocritical and selfish these women are.

I heard the behind the scenes stories since I have relatives living there, and the way Michelle Obama and especially her own mother treated people was like a social catastrophe in action, and it stunk all the way up to the gates of heaven I would bet, from what I heard.

And of course, now here we all are with this woman lecturing the masses on how men should act! HAHA! This is such a perfect example of morally bankrupt people leading the way for the rest of us.

originally posted by: introvert
Are you guys really this bored that you have to attack someone's positive statements?

I agree with her.

Period.

The problem isn't the message, it's the source.

It's like attending a lecture given by a pig on table manners.

Following now?

I don't know, I do think that the feminist agenda gets out of hand now.

But a few reflections on this interview:

For one, it is part of the American culture to continually seek to improve, to grow, be bigger, better, smarter, stronger, richer, more confident, more, more, more, more...

That does not differ from one gender to the other! Here these women are getting together to talk about how to do just this, to help other women do this... you can't say they don't make the same judgement on women when that is the whole topic of their meeting - how women can do better, be better.

So they included, in just a few lines amongst a very long interview, how they think men could "do better" too.



I must admit that I have a specific way of seeing things which this whole narrative sort of fits into. It is not that clear cut, but I always percieve a sort of rough pattern in the way men and women develop differently. I see it around me, and my husband and I have grown this way-

It seems to me females grow from a state of consciousness of other toward consciousness of self,
men grow the opposite way, from a self consciousness towards consciousness of others.

What I mean by consciousness of others is a sort of empathy and sense of social duty or service, which makes them more aware of what others want, need, and expect.
Consciousness of self is a higher sense of what one wants, needs, and expects.

Both of these perspectives are equally important to develop, in my mind, and we just come at them from opposing directions, and I think that is complimentary.

In a familial context, for example, the way it worked for us was that when we were younger and had small children, he focused on his self develoipment/fulfilment. I supported that. He worked on being successful at a career he liked, and gaining self worth that way, he explored his other interests and hobbies and artistic pursuits.
Yes, he didn't change diapers, and never gave a bottle....he came in at night and told them stories before bedtime though, and they got to be present and watch him in his self fulfilling activities.

I was happy taking care of others, learning to integrate the culture here, paying a lot of attention to others and little to my own desires.

Then, in my mid thirties, Kids became teens, I wanted to focus on my self development, and we turned the tables- he suddenly was a stronger force in the kids lives! His career was all set on track, and he had real experience to offer advice on how to be autonomous and independant, how to be successful in the outside world, which they were readying to enter. They had the need to clash in opposition to declare their individuation and he is good at that and appreciates the value of it (I hate conflict ).

So I went off to work on my career, took up my own activities and hobbies, and learned how to ask myself "what do I want?"
He learned how to temper himself in regards to others, to work with others, to be more conscious of their individual concerns, desires, needs. The kids were part of that pressure from the outside to look beyond the edges of the ego.

It worked out well that way, we think. We're finally feeling like well balanced individuals... and this (late forties, early fifties) is the age when you should start being a real influence in the community. That's when you have jobs of responsibility, and hopefully, you've made that trip from one end to the other, to learn how to find balance in the middle.

So women teaching younger women how to find self confidence , and men who put pressure on each other to be socially conscious, sounds about right to me. -I see that men don't want women to be telling them how to do this, and sometimes women don't want men to tell them how to be self conscious. We'd like that to come from someone we can easily identify with and use an example to follow.

But for myself, I've found men can be a great source of info on this, because they often have more experience in being self confident, so I do listen to them on this subject. But that is my own choice. I also know some men who choose to recognize some womens experience and knowledge in the area of being conscious of others, but again, that is their choice.

a reply to: Kali74

A fair comparison would be to tell women to be better mothers. And haven't you been whining for months about you want to be able to say whatever, wherever and wherever you choose? Need a safe space snowflake?

Oh they've had one for decades, but I think it's supposed to be secret. shh



K~

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

They do? Where? Which ones???

Here we go:

But the fact is that fathers are spending more time with their children than ever before. In fact, American fathers today spend 65 percent more time with their children during the workday than they did 30 years ago.

The State of America’s Fathers report highlights that a majority of fathers experience work-life conflict, and that this has increased over time. For example, 60 percent of fathers in dual-earner families say they have problems balancing work and family, compared to 35 percent of such fathers in 1977.

Like working mothers, working fathers face stigma when they seek greater flexibility in the workplace. A very similar number of fathers (43 percent) and mothers (41 percent) think asking for flexibility could have a negative impact on their careers. In addition, there is evidence that leave-taking negatively impacts chances of promotion, frequency of raises, and performance evaluations, and these penalties are stronger for men than women. Men who seek flexibility are even seen as less masculine.

source

originally posted by: introvert
Are you guys really this bored that you have to attack someone's positive statements?

I agree with her.

Period.

how in the world is broadly generalizing men a positive statement? Would you feel the same if a Republican said the same of Muslims

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: onequestion

I don't see anything wrong in her message. She's telling people to hold themselves to a higher standard, something more people should do.

She said nothing about "people". She said "men".

a reply to: onequestion

As I said before in a thread in which you stated you weren't talking about the Jungian archetype... the hero archetype doesn't belong to men. Clearly anyone can be a hero but you don't even seem to understand what the archetype actually represents in Jungian psychology.

For men the hero archetype represents an inner struggle with the anima, the hero must confront, fight, overcome the need to reject it (the monster is his own fear of his feminine side) before accepting and then rejoining it. For women it's the animus, her inner masculinity that she must learn not to reject.

The hero is one who successfully accepts their anima/animus as part of their being rather than struggling to get rid of it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Well, get offended, of course! Asking men to be good fathers and provide a good example... Well, that's downright offensive!

I agree. Now the question is whether Michelle has a problem with a bunch of women sitting together and making deals. I mean up on that stage I see no men ...

originally posted by: notquiteright
I think the particularly offensive aspect is the implication that men don't take care of their children.

And that's how people get offended. They take something someone says and ADD meaning to it, claiming that the speaker IMPLIED it. For example, Black Lives Matter is taken to mean that black lives are the ONLY ones that matter. And people get all bent out of shape. Snowflakes.

originally posted by: notquiteright
a reply to: notquiteright

I have yet to see my wife (or any others) push the lawn mower, take out the trash, or get under the car to fix or maintain the vehicle. Women have equality options to pick and choose.

By the way, I have mowed the lawn many times, I take the trash down the lane on a regular basis and I can tune up my own car, though we have it done at the shop these days. As regards "picking and choosing", my advice to you is to choose a woman who doesn't hide behind stereotypes. If you choose a high maintenance woman as your wife, you're going to get just that.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

More specifically it's about white men, she didn't articulate that but when she's talking about golf courses shes not talking about brothers.

Just to be clear there are underlying statements here that are deeper in the psycho sphere but surface level thinking people won't catch them.

originally posted by: onequestion
...she didn't articulate that but ... underlying statements

Oh, yes! She said ALL kinds of things but didn't actually say them, right? She MEANT them. Uh-huh. Poor thing, you shouldn't have to hear these things not articulated or statements not made... I'm so sorry. (And you suggest that it's the women who are feminizing you?????)

As a man who is a proud feminist and has been for 40+ years and is not one bit "de-masculanized" by that, all I have to say to the men oh so offended by this is grow a pair and quit whining.

a reply to: onequestion

That's hilarious considering one the anti-Obama memes is that he plays too much golf.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

We must be surface level thinkers... O.M.G. muh feelings!

a reply to: Kali74

Yes, basic.

Very basic.

a reply to: onequestion

Which is why you seem to ignore everything but my one liners huh?

originally posted by: Open_Minded Skeptic
As a man who is a proud feminist and has been for 40+ years and is not one bit "de-masculanized" by that, all I have to say to the men oh so offended by this is grow a pair and quit whining.

It's not about you.

I'm fine with my masculinity there an agenda at Olay to attack white men.

Don't believe me?

Ask yourself why there's hundreds of thousands of African and middle eastern men middle age range flooding the borders of European countries and America and not any other country in the world.

Sorry you can't see clearly.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: onequestion

Which is why you seem to ignore everything but my one liners huh?

Stop commenting in my threads.