Omar Mateen's Wife Tried to Talk Him Out of Orlando Attack, Sources Say

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Pyrrho

You know this guy was radicalized on the internet right? Source

Traditionally that isn't how terrorists are recruited for these things... Granted it may be deep seated religious convictions, but it looks more like he was insecure about his closeted homosexuality, the conflict this posed with his religion, and his father's approval on the matter. Sounds like a bunch of mental issues to me.

I don't disagree that he had mental issues. I just think it's important to make clear the influence that certain religious teachings has on whether or not someone thinks being gay is so bad that it's deserving of death.

Not just this act, but other acts as well. Terrorists are taught and influenced to perpetrate severe acts of violence in the name of what is right by their religion.

Look, we have possibly millions of religious people in this country that don't like homosexuality. They aren't attempting to massacre people across the world, though. They aren't taught that it is the way to deal with it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If she "tried to talk him out of it" then it seems she knew enough.

Maybe. Still not enough information to go on to make a judgement call though.

If it was a rumor that would be one thing, but it seems as though we're talking about her own words, not unverifiable hearsay.

She's either lying or telling the truth. If she's lying, why? Because she was even more involved than she wants to let on, or she's scared? Or he "made her do it" and she feared for her life?

In either case, it appears to be straight from her own mouth, even though I didn't hear her say it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If she "tried to talk him out of it" then it seems she knew enough.

Maybe. Still not enough information to go on to make a judgement call though.

When you incriminate yourself , dont need much evidence or information . Its a given.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

That's a good point, word is he was a frequent patron BUT as xuenchen rightly pointed out it's too early to tell and the MSM has a long history of always screwing up the facts, or straight up lying.

originally posted by: Pyrrho

Then we should just ignore the religious influence of terror attacks because they just have "mental issues"?

Absolutely not. In fact, religious influences are, I would argue, the source of much of the insanity we face as a culture.

In as far as what I actually said above ... "Mateen ... committed this abysmal crime because of his own mental issues."

I would certainly include the irrationality of religion in the category of mental issues.

originally posted by: Pyrrho

Why do you people want so badly to excuse the religious motivations behind these things? It is actually a big deal.

I'm not "excusing anything" because I don't agree with the right-wing political agenda that wants to use this as more fodder for Donald J. Trump. Bluntly, you are an overt liar if you claim that I have excused these murders in any way shape form or fashion. I'm just disgusted at the number of people so willing to use this tragedy for political gain.

originally posted by: Pyrrho

How do you think he came to think that being gay was so wrong that gays deserve to die? He was taught that it is such a huge sin, that the only way to redeem himself and relieve his guilt is to commit this type of extreme act.

I was taught that at the First Baptist Church myself. The zealots in the religious right in this country have made it clear that gays (LGBT) are sinners, reprobates, perverts and should be treated as second-class citizens ... if that.

You seem to have insight into Mateen's psyche that would only come from paranormal abilities or personal knowledge of the man ... which is it?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Pyrrho

Then we should just ignore the religious influence of terror attacks because they just have "mental issues"?

Absolutely not. In fact, religious influences are, I would argue, the source of much of the insanity we face as a culture.

In as far as what I actually said above ... "Mateen ... committed this abysmal crime because of his own mental issues."

I would certainly include the irrationality of religion in the category of mental issues.

originally posted by: Pyrrho

Why do you people want so badly to excuse the religious motivations behind these things? It is actually a big deal.

I'm not "excusing anything" because I don't agree with the right-wing political agenda that wants to use this as more fodder for Donald J. Trump. Bluntly, you are an overt liar if you claim that I have excused these murders in any way shape form or fashion. I'm just disgusted at the number of people so willing to use this tragedy for political gain.

originally posted by: Pyrrho

How do you think he came to think that being gay was so wrong that gays deserve to die? He was taught that it is such a huge sin, that the only way to redeem himself and relieve his guilt is to commit this type of extreme act.

I was taught that at the First Baptist Church myself. The zealots in the religious right in this country have made it clear that gays (LGBT) are sinners, reprobates, perverts and should be treated as second-class citizens ... if that.

You seem to have insight into Mateen's psyche that would only come from paranormal abilities or personal knowledge of the man ... which is it?

You are the person attempting to excuse him as just having "mental issues" which would require the "paranormal abilities or personal knowledge of the man". I simply offered that statement as a reminder that you don't know anything and you shouldn't excuse it as "mental issues" when there is likely much more at play than that. I didn't presume to know anything, only the possibilities of what could have motivated him beyond your simplistic view that is clearly motivated by your political beliefs.

And of course, you have political bias that influences the way you interpret this situation and how you interpret my comment. Why do you feel the need to bring Trump into this comment? Nothing I said has anything to do with Trump or his campaign, or Hillary, or any other candidate. Do you really feel the need to immediately turn this tragedy into a political talking point?

a reply to: Tempter

Really? You know I feel really bad for the 50 people that died. But lets put this in perspective. More people die every day from a lot bigger issues. How am I the problem? You think this is our nation's biggest problem? How about substance abuse, education, baby boomers... Social security.. You are the problem, allowing the media to fear monger you into starting world war III. Incredible I tell you.

Let's see here..

CNN

Comey, the FBI director, said the bureau is "highly confident" Mateen was radicalized, at least in part, by viewing extremism on the Internet. "There are strong indications of radicalization by this killer and of potential inspiration by foreign terrorist organizations,"

Ok makes sense the guy had also been previously investigated regarding his friendship with a known militant, though and sadly (because all this could of been prevented) it was determined then the relationship was not substantial enough and that he was free to go.

Seddique Mateen said he doesn't believe religion motivated his son's attack.

Oh ok, since his father says that, we should probably believe him, it's not like his father has any vested interest in that position, or in any kind of cover up; or any of his family right?

father had an occasional television show on an Afghan satellite channel in which he regularly criticized Afghanistan's government and Pakistan.

Oh never mind, he actually has a television show where he hard lines the talibans political positions, don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. The father goes on to say...

"Radicalism? No. He doesn't have a beard even. When someone becomes radical, they grow long beards and they wear clothes that you know, long clothes, and I don't think religion or Islam had nothing to do with this,"

Oh #ing #, He got us there! if he doesn't have a beard Radical Islam is cleared, but wait!

Slate

Traditionally, Muslims purify corpses by washing the skin and nails and sometimes by shaving the pubic hair. But suicide attackers are deprived of a proper burial, since there are usually no remains. To compensate, the attackers shear themselves ahead of time, both to guarantee some level of cleanliness at the time of instant incineration and to prove extreme devotion to personal purity. Some scholars offer an alternative explanation: They believe that suicide terrorists adopted the no-hair practice from the Pashtun tribesmen of Afghanistan,

Yea, and 9/11 attackers were clean shaven, and the list goes on and on, so what do we have here? Well, we have a family that appears to be deeply engrained in Islam, a son who was radicalized, and I am going to venture to say, that his father; well, his father, without a doubt is an Islamist (his support for the taliban)

I will speculate his X wife is as well (her claim this has nothing to do with Islam), so these conflicting reports we are seeing coming from the family should be expected,and I think in the coming weeks this will only look worse, but trying to spin this away from a radical attack is dishonest, that is completely disgusting, guys wake up! We have a radical here and a family of a radical, saying all sorts of crap, whilst trying to spin the narrative away from Islam, coincidental? I don't think so.

Lets take a step back and look at Trump logic.. Remember you guys are Republicans that traditionally want less government and less oversight.

If you were to stop this type of 'lone wolf' activity, you know the amount of oversight this would require? You understand the privacy issues you would violate. You even understand how much money/infrastructure it would take to prevent these issues? This wasn't ISIS. This was a guy born in NYC. He had a gay identify crisis. He was't a terrorist.

Even if he was, the amount of oversight you would have to put in place to save 50 lives is incredible.

Meanwhile in the US...

We have a major social security issue, healthcare issues, drug issues, crime issues. Our education system is in shambles but lets spend more money in preventing 50 deaths.

Honestly lets get real and focus on the greater good here. You do realize ISIS came about because Bush had us invade Iraq without a plan right? So lets go screw up more countries and make this problem even worse.

[snip]

On another note, this 'attack' isn't any difference than the church shooting of last year or Aurora Colorado shootings. Yet because this idiot was Muslim it's different.

Trump logic...

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have no doubt there are many lies around this tragedy; his ex wife confessing to aiding him in this despicable event is pretty important as he is dead.

Actually his EX didnt it was his CURRENT WIFE he has a SECOND WIFE.

a reply to: mzinga

Actually.. if we scrub the internet of islamic vids(it can be done by automatic programs btw) and deport radical imams and those under suspicion it be a good start. An dthis guy was a terrorist. ISIS even claimed they were going to attack and he himself said he was doing it on their behalf. So how can you say that this was just a random nutter?

The other shootings you mentioned were not the same. SC shooting was over skin tone. Colorado shooting was the nutjob was just crazy(who stole the guns btw if i remember) the orlando shooting was against infidels and was religious motivated.

originally posted by: Nucleardoom
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Maybe. Still not enough information to go on to make a judgement call though.

Mainstream news seems to be as confused as you regarding this tragedy. You've got to really ask yourself WTF when the same news clip clearly states Mateen made a 911 call PROCLAIMING his ALLEGIANCE/SUPPORT of ISIS yet they claim they're not sure if it's an act of terrorism. The shooter himself has proclaimed it's terrorism in that 911 call, how much more proof is needed beyond that? What a joke.

Just because he made a call claiming his support for ISIS doesn't mean there isn't more going on than just a simple terrorist attack. Why are you so ready to close the book on the investigation with so little info known?

a reply to: Liquesence

It depends on how much and how thorough her information. If she only had a vague idea of what was going on, that isn't enough to arrest her on for instance.

a reply to: yuppa

I'd say we invest that money in our crumbling infrastructure before we get all big brother and start censoring the internet. That is the proverbial pandora's box.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If she "tried to talk him out of it" then it seems she knew enough.

Maybe. Still not enough information to go on to make a judgement call though.

When you incriminate yourself , dont need much evidence or information . Its a given.

How do you know she incriminated herself? Did you sit in the interview rooms with the police and her listening to what she said? Right now the media is reporting that the police are merely considering arresting her, so what do you YOU know that they don't?

a reply to: mzinga

On another note, this 'attack' isn't any difference than the church shooting of last year or Aurora Colorado shootings. Yet because this idiot was Muslim it's different. Trump logic...

Well I have yet to see any report of James Holmes or Dylann Roof claiming their allegiance to ISIS, nor were either of them Muslims, so yea there isn't any difference at all. Liberal logic...

a reply to: Nucleardoom

Who cares if they have allegiance or not? There are much much bigger issues in our country than this type of 'lone wolf' shooting. You want to turn the world upside down and invade every arab country in the world. News Flash.. This is what caused the issue to begin with.

a reply to: Nucleardoom

That doesn't change the fact that the police are still saying that Omar Mateen was working alone without ISIS support. He was radicalized on the internet. So why aren't you considering that maybe Omar had mental problems and just started sympathizing with their cause to give legitimacy to what he was planning on doing?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Just because he made a call claiming his support for ISIS doesn't mean there isn't more going on than just a simple terrorist attack. Why are you so ready to close the book on the investigation with so little info known?

I'm not closing the book, just would like proven facts to be acknowledged as such. He is clearly a Muslim terrorist by his own admission. I agree with you as there could be much more to this story, but the simple fact remains he supported ISIS.