After Orlando, time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom: Neil Macdonald

a reply to: tothetenthpower

"At what point do we start having the national conversation that bigotry is not religious freedom. Not wanting to serve people because of your feelings towards them is not your right or your freedom in the 21st century. And I don't agree with Neil often, but this lat bit: "

But it is perfectly alright to force them to do something because of YOUR feeling and rights?

originally posted by: dismanrc

a reply to: tothetenthpower

"At what point do we start having the national conversation that bigotry is not religious freedom. Not wanting to serve people because of your feelings towards them is not your right or your freedom in the 21st century. And I don't agree with Neil often, but this lat bit: "

But it is perfectly alright to force them to do something because of YOUR feeling and rights?

Force them to honor the contract they signed?

Or grant them immunity based on their religion?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

When you get in your car and drive, are you forced to stop at a stop signs and red lights, or are you respecting your commitment to society to be orderly and follow the laws as they're written, when you stop.

If you can't drive without feeling "forced" to obey the laws, then you probably shouldn't drive. Same with business. When you are a public business, if you have to be forced to work with "the public", you probably shouldn't be in business.

Driving regulations are set for public safety. They cannot be compared to forcing someone to bake a cake for an event which they don't approve.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This isn't about baking cakes! This is about religious people thinking that they're above the law.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: centrifugal
Bigotry of any kind should be socially unacceptable, I completely agree on that point.

Right, and we shouldn't be bigots against any religion, or religious person, but accept them with their beliefs.

By allowing them to break the law.

Which law?

God's Law? Or, Man's Law?

Not everyone is sympathetic towards homosexuality. So far we are only seeing the side that the media is selling like hotcakes. There is another side proclaimed by a silent and not so silent vast group.

www.hope-of-israel.org...

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This isn't about baking cakes! This is about religious people thinking that they're above the law.

In what way? Which people? Be specific.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I know that you weren't born yesterday and that you don't live in a bubble. I'm not playing your little games.

Nearly 200 anti-LGTB bill have been introduced across the country, just this year, by the political Christian Right, aimed for "religious folk" to skirt legal and civil obligations and to deny the LGBT community basic equal rights. SOURCE

After Orlando, it's time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom.

a reply to: windword

First off, try a link that doesn't demand my email. Second, I asked you for details, not for links. Specific laws. How you believe they infringe on anyone's rights. Your opinions, not that of some article.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

First off, try a link that doesn't demand my email.

I don't know what to tell you, it's the Washington Post, and it doesn't ask for my email.

Second, I asked you for details, not for links.

I don't care what you asked for. I told you, I'm not playing your game of feigned naivete and ignorance. The details you seek, if you really care, are in the link.

a reply to: windword

The link is useless. I am not giving them my email to read an article. If that's the best you can do, then just give it up already. You made a claim, and you can't personally list a single law, that you believe is a violation of rights. No proof, gotcha.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: dismanrc

a reply to: tothetenthpower

"At what point do we start having the national conversation that bigotry is not religious freedom. Not wanting to serve people because of your feelings towards them is not your right or your freedom in the 21st century. And I don't agree with Neil often, but this lat bit: "

But it is perfectly alright to force them to do something because of YOUR feeling and rights?

Force them to honor the contract they signed?

Or grant them immunity based on their religion?

And what contract did they sign?

And everyone seem to want to grant Muslims immunity for things based on their religion.
-- Allowed to wear Burkas in ID photos.
-- Allowed to pray and worship in school and work. Where are all the separation of church and state people on that?
-- Allowed to not bake cakes for gay weddings. Why no protest and lawsuits filed on that one?
-- No gay weddings allowed in mosque.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You made a claim, and you can't personally list a single law, that you believe is a violation of rights. No proof, gotcha.

Liar! Just because you're having a problem accessing the Washington Post doesn't mean that I made a claim that I didn't/couldn't back up!

What's behind the wave of anti-LGBT laws sweeping across the USA?

More widely, the proposals are among nearly 200 anti-lesbian, gay and transgender bills being monitored by civil rights activists across the country, according to the Human Rights Campaign.

Backlash Grows Over 'Religious Freedom' and 'Anti-Discrimination' Push

The Human Rights Campaign has tracked more than 200 anti-LGBT bills introduced this year in 32 states across the country — "a big uptick" from previous years, said the ACLU's Saxe.

The 12 Most Anti-LGBT States, By Legislation

With progress there often comes backlash, and that's certainly playing out after such achievements as nationwide marriage equality, open military service for gay and bi folks, and unprecedented transgender visibility. More than 160 anti-LGBT bills have been introduced in state legislatures for the 2016 session, far more than last year, according to the Human Rights Campaign. The bills are in 31 states.

Why So Many States Are Fighting Over LGBT Rights in 2016

What happens in that state will flesh out this story further: just days after Gov. Pat McCrory signed the bill, the ACLU filed a lawsuit on behalf of transgender and lesbian residents, alleging that the new law is a form of sex discrimination, as well a a violation of constitutional protections like the Fourteenth Amendment’s due process clause. The state attorney general—a Democrat who is running against McCrory for governor—called the law “a national embarrassment” and refused to defend any named parties challenged in the lawsuit.

Please don't try to tell me that there isn't a coordinated effort being made by right wing political Christians to deny the LGBT community of basic human rights and rob these people of the dignity that all American's deserve.

After Orlando, it's time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom!

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Funny how you poke into every thread on these issues, yet you have no clue what is being talked about.

How very unusual.

originally posted by: dismanrc

And what contract did they sign?

While this form/cover sheet is believed to satisfy minimum legal requirements as of its revision date, compliance with applicable law, as the same may be amended from time to time, remains the responsibility of the user of this form/cover sheet. Questions should be addressed to the user's legal, business or tax advisor(s).

Colorado Incorporation Form

Protected classes for places of public accommodation are: Race, Color, Disability, Sex, Sexual Orientation (including transgender status), National Origin/Ancestry, Creed, Marital Status and Retaliation

Colorado Public Accomodations

"...time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom..."

How about time to recognize that whenever gays and liberals cant have everything they want their way its not "bigotry"?

Or how about recognizing gays and liberals "bigotry" against anybody elses right to disagree with them?

They've got a bad habit of thinking that its everybody else in the worlds responsibility to conform to THEIR wants and lifestyle choices, and INTOLERANCE for anybody who doesn't.

You know, like a religious zealot.
But worshiping at the alter of unnatural gender and sexuality choices.

Dont blame it on me when you instigate somebody to violence because you refuse to coexist.

"Protected classes for places of public accommodation are: Race, Color, Disability, Sex, Sexual Orientation (including transgender status), National Origin/Ancestry, Creed, Marital Status and Retaliation "

I dont see religion.
And whenever somebody tries to equate sexuality choice with Race it infuriates me every time.
Whats "creed"?

a reply to: robthom

creed
krēd/Submit
noun
a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith.

You should really be inclined to google these terms before going off on a rant about how it wasn't mentioned.

Then embarrassingly asking what a word means -- answering your question perfectly.

Also, fighting bigotry that is espoused by a particular religion is not bigotry itself simply because that bigot believes in the bigotry in their religious ideology; it's the exact opposite of bigotry.

Welcome to the forum, though.

a reply to: windword

Let's make this simple. It isn't discrimination to not agree with someone else. If someone is so fragile they need laws to force others to agree with them, they have a problem.

How about, instead of addressing the "evil anti trans" theory, we address the very real problem, which is that this is unsafe for women? That business about regular men not being allowed in doesn't fly, and the trans crowd doesn't want it to.

LGBT activists enraged over beach patrol bathroom email

Real men, who don't identify as anything else, told to use their own facilities and the trans crowd doesn't like that.

originally posted by: DeadFoot
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Funny how you poke into every thread on these issues, yet you have no clue what is being talked about.

How very unusual.

That's your opinion. Not accurate, but whatever. I am aware of the topic.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Let's make this simple. It isn't discrimination to not agree with someone else. If someone is so fragile they need laws to force others to agree with them, they have a problem.

Yeah? Tell that to The Human Rights Campaign, The ACLU, Disney, PayPal, the NFL, Marvel, Intel, Apple, AMC Studios, Starz, Dow Chemical, SalesForce, Live Nation, Time Warner, Viacom, 21 Century Fox, Lyon's Gate, Sony, The Weinstein Company, Comedy Dynamics, Yelp....just to name a few corporations and organizations threatening boycotts and bring on lawsuits over these laws.

It isn't discrimination to not agree with someone else

Fluff.

You're not "disagreeing with someone else".

You're treating them entirely differently based on that disagreement, and there is an entirely different debate on whether or not they even have the ability to change what it is that you don't like about them.

That is what discrimination is.