So, after mass shooting, Australia "banned" guns 20 years ago = ZERO mass killings since

a reply to: vjr1113

You do realize that there seems be a lot of evidence showing the vast majority of gun homicides happen when a small number of bullets are fired? Criminals wouldn't follow the law and would just get other people to buy them ammo like many do when it comes to getting illegal guns. It kind of scares me that so many gun control advocates claimed a national database was too extreme just a few years ago and now it's looked at as common sense.

a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog

the problem is not the small homicides, the problem is one person killing 20 30 40 50 people if he chooses to. im not ok with giving anyone this kind or power, are you?

a reply to: vjr1113

The problem is those homicides though since they make up the vast majority of gun deaths every year. So you don't want to give people the power to kill large groups of people so wouldn't that mean you support a ban on almost all firearms (since many have the ability to kill large groups of people)? I don't support a ban like that.

Edit: Would you support a mental health database?

a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog

well there you go, thats the catch 22. unless we limit how many people one person can kill while granting them the ability to protect themselves to a reasonable degree, there will be more mass shooting like this. a large number of mags and ammo means limiting the type or number of guns is meaningless. unless we can account for mags and ammo in a responsible way, the amount of people one person can kill will always high.

in this recent scenario, a simple law that forbids people with terrorists ties from having a gun would have prevented the massacre. we can start there. people can become irrational and violent after the mental check. it wouldn't hurt but i doubt it would really help, people can snap and really everyone is innocent until the moment they open fire.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog

the problem is not the small homicides, the problem is one person killing 20 30 40 50 people if he chooses to. im not ok with giving anyone this kind or power, are you?

Anyone can have that power if they choose. They could use explosives or poison or even a bat. Doesn't matter how it's done what does matter is people need to be aware these people are out there. And when people notify the authorities they need to take it seriously. For example when the FBI was notified about him from Co workers they should have taken it more seriously. Problem is in a PC world authorities can't investigate just because someone had radical thoughts and expressing radical views. That needs to change.

a reply to: vjr1113

People will still be able to kill large amounts of people unless you limit ammo to an extremely ridiculous low number and this guy was taken off the terrorist watch list and it looks like he bought his weapon when he wasn't on the list. You claimed in the past to support gun rights yet you want to ban every weapon that could kill large amounts of people, limit ammo, ban certain magazines, take away rights of people who haven't been found guilty, set up programs that would need a national database to work, and support making it harder for law abiding citizen to own weapons.

a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog

ok so is the price of getting ammo, mags, and guns harder not worth saving the lives of say 50 people? if you have to wait twice as much to get your ammo, is that not worth removing the power to kill a large group of people from everyone?

im bringing ideas on how to limit the number of casualties by limiting ammo, mags, and guns. making them available to responsible americans as is their right, and as usual, im hearing a lot of nay-saying and no ideas because it inconvenient to you, meanwhile people are getting slaughtered by the dozens. remember that.

originally posted by: nancyliedersdeaddog
a reply to: vjr1113

People will still be able to kill large amounts of people unless you limit ammo to an extremely ridiculous low number and this guy was taken off the terrorist watch list and it looks like he bought his weapon when he wasn't on the list. You claimed in the past to support gun rights yet you want to ban every weapon that could kill large amounts of people, limit ammo, ban certain magazines, take away rights of people who haven't been found guilty, set up programs that would need a national database to work, and support making it harder for law abiding citizen to own weapons.

Australia doesn't even have a ban on firearms the op is sadly mistaken. What they require is a license and you must prove you have a secure way to store the firearms meaning a gun safe. And are required to give the Govt serial numbers of all firearms they have unless it was made before 1901. And whoever this op is has never been to Australia they have guN shops you can walk in and pur chase firearms a simple Google search and he's know this.

Australia had 10 mass shootings since 1996 when "strict gun laws" where introduced. Also strict gun laws in Australia means that most of the hard-core rules (seizures, reasoning, etc) have been long revoked based on cost factors for the individual states. Gun ownership has increased by 6% since 1996.

Sure statistics related to crimes committed with a gun dropped dramatically right after introduction of the bill and suicide rate dropped down almost 50% - although in 2016 most of these are back to pre-1996 values and have been for a long time. Most pro and anti gun organizations including the government in AUS are pretty much agree that the tough stance on gun control were not effective at all and were costing way more than they had done good.

Another thing is that Australia has one of the toughest immigration systems in the World - you think the US is crazy - think again. Australia doesn't allow anyone in who was convicted of a crime with a more than 12 month sentence .. even if those convictions were over turned. They also monitor exactly your inbound / outbound movements and require an automatic check on all persons entering Australia.. They are ensuring that their borders are safe and run a pretty hard line - no exceptions!

So Australia doesn't let in (at all) the crazy people that might be a danger to the community. No exceptions.

In the first full year after the Oz gun ban, gun crime went up 40%, report the the magazine 'gun mart'.

a reply to: Verse

Not why we have guns IS IT?
Some of us look at the BIGGER game, try to keep up.
If the Govt goes rogue ,shotguns and scoped rifles won't do it.
WE know we are the one's MOST qualified to use such carbines ,despite rampant HOPLOPHOBIC responses .
If the government cannot protect us (Their JOB)I am NOT lowering MY means of defense.
If you are have ing DIFFICULTY figuring that out ,the maybe the bigger game needs more studying.

a reply to: Nikola014

Wrong ,people with a criminal record have been allowed into Australia and terrorists and ''fake refugees '' and people who have lied about their criminal past and been found out and still allowed into Australia

a reply to: flyandi

They will allow anyone into this country now ,its a joke and a bad one

Australia is screwed.

There are hundreds of armed Muslims in Australia with illegal weapons just waiting for ''their opportunity '' ,they were preparing for an attack on an Australian Military base and basically got a slap on the hand for it ,if a white Australian had planned it ,it would have been life in jail

originally posted by: Jaellma
The facts don't lie. After Australia suffered from the mass shooting where 35 people in Port Arthur were massacred, they severely restricted gun ownership to all in Australia. The result is there have been zero mass killings since.

The oft-cited statistic in Australia is a simple one: There have been no mass killings — defined by experts there as a gunman killing five or more people besides himself — since the nation significantly tightened its gun control laws almost 20 years ago.

In the continuing debate over how to stop mass killings in the United States, Australia has become a familiar touchstone.

President Obama has cited the country’s gun laws as a model for the United States, calling Australia a nation “like ours.” On the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton has said the Australian approach is “worth considering.” The National Rifle Association has dismissed the policies, contending that they “robbed Australians of their right to self-defense and empowered criminals” without reducing violent crime.

Australia also instituted a national gun registry and buyback gun program, something the US has failed to do nationwide.

If the US government wants to get things under control, they need to enact nationwide gun programs, extended wait processes for gun purchases and some sort of efficient gun buyback program.

Until that happens, there will continue to be gun massacres across the US, irrespective of sources committing the acts and especially in the gun friendly states, such as Florida.

How Australia ended mass killings

But what do think of a govt that murders 30+ of its own citizens and puts a bloke with and IQ of 66, never has any military or gun training away for ever to achieve that outcome?

This bloke had been placed into finical administration and was therefore legally unfit to plead to anything as any competent lawyer, director of public prosecution and 2nd year law student knows but got him to admit guilt so he could have a TV in his cell.

Would you want a family member of yours to have a lawyer like that, on that sort of a charge??

Ok maybe you guys look at something if you get it the port arthur the setup of martin ,
part 2 , I hate cops , but the guys doing the talk is a senior homicide detective retired , 17 years he worked in the police force ,

it was the biggest cover up you have ever seen , now I live in Australia, Sydney had a mass shooting cafe outside police station , the police could have clearly taken he down at any time , there waited until he killed somebodyb, specials force offered but refused to have there men , 2 victims were shot during a shootout in cafe , were not killed by the shooter but by police gun fire , still before inquist



over here , it like this ( he threaten me the man who stands 10 metres away ,he stand with a knife , next second dead four bullets in chest . Umm )

That is Australia, last year in Queensland many fathers ( umm 6 I think die) to police gun fire , to many but that does not make to news papers or media . ?

Yet if you report of violence against a minor live a relationship, 9 month no one has turn up , from police department, we lose 1 woman a week to domestic violence , umm

blame it on the men NO THIS is what is going on , ,

we have more guns in the public hands , BUT NOT SORT THAT CAN UP IN CLOSE NEIGHBORHOOD GUN BATTLE .



reply to: Jaellma

You cannot compare the US to Aulstralia. First, you have to take in account the massive size differences and history of said countries. Additionally, you have to dissect cultures on top of many other things. Here in America, no doubt, we have a horrible violence issue. However, taking away guns is not really an option. Now, with that thought expressed, I could see gun control working much earlier in the game, but we are too far down the road at this point in time. Honestly there is really nothing we can do now outside of excepting the current state of the country and working together to fix it.

I do believe that stricter gun control laws could be beneficial, but it's not going to prevent anybody who already has one from repeating the nightmare we just saw. Anybody who thinks that people from Middle America are just going to up and turn in their guns are dilliusional and live in a different reality from myself. Again, it's going to take Americans working together to make our country a safe place again. Honestly, I'm being serious here, it all starts at home and can branch out from there. We have to stand united or face the consequences.

originally posted by: Jaellma
The facts don't lie. After Australia suffered from the mass shooting where 35 people in Port Arthur were massacred, they severely restricted gun ownership to all in Australia. The result is there have been zero mass killings since.

Talk like that in 'murrikkka will get you shot!
Reason and logic have nothing to do with it!