So, after mass shooting, Australia "banned" guns 20 years ago = ZERO mass killings since

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I bet I could find an article that proves farts smell good, reality is the majority of Aussies feel quite safe wandering around the streets, even in the cities as opposed to the average American who needs to be armed to the teeth just to take a visit to the local gas station....that in itself is very telling is it not ?

I live in America and I feel safe walking the streets and gassing up in the less reputable parts of my city, and I am not 'armed to the teeth'.

Meanwhile, based on the metrics I see from vor I'd be afraid to see my niece go to an Aussie college.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I bet I could find an article that proves farts smell good, reality is the majority of Aussies feel quite safe wandering around the streets, even in the cities as opposed to the average American who needs to be armed to the teeth just to take a visit to the local gas station....that in itself is very telling is it not ?

I live in America and I feel safe walking the streets and gassing up in the less reputable parts of my city, and I am not 'armed to the teeth'.

Meanwhile, based on the metrics I see from vor I'd be afraid to see my niece go to an Aussie college.

Have you ever spent time here buddy ? I'm guessing not....where as I have lived many years in the U.S and I can tell you there is no comparison.....

You guys on the one hand scream you need weapons to keep you all safe from the criminals yet try and tell us you feel safe in the same sentence...I think you may be confused

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
Have you ever spent time here buddy ? I'm guessing not....

No, and I have no desire to. I value my freedom too much.

where as I have lived many years in the U.S and I can tell you there is no comparison.....

You can tell me, that's nice.

You guys on the one hand scream you need weapons to keep you all safe from the criminals

I don't have to scream anything. I have the Second Amendment.

yet try and tell us you feel safe in the same sentence...I think you may be confused

I'm not the one hearing people scream things that are not yelled. Meanwhile the liberals scream about how unsafe they feel and need no-gun zones to soothe their delicate sensibilities.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Well you can sit there clutching to your guns and thinking you are in the safest place in the world if that helps you sleep at night ....

You talk of freedom but i suspect the real meaning of the word eludes you

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Jaellma

I could give two #s... occasional mass killings, while dispicable and horrible, are acceptible to retain our liberties...PERIOD...

You want to not be a VICTIM? Get a gun, get a CCW and get training. Otherwise, feel free to curl into a ball and put your lives in the hands of terrorists. I WILL NOT!!!!!And you do not have the authority to tell me I MUST!!!!

Jaden

Calm down there buddy, no need to shout. You keep your gun, you are far more likely to shoot your own mother in the face than any potential criminal. Enjoy.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You do NOT ban guns. Guns are a check on foreign invasions(worked in WWII)

It worked in WWII so its applicable to modern times? Is that the rule? Sweet lets all break out the mustard gas it worked in WWI.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornmana way to defend yourself from an armed attacker,preventing dictators from genociding the public into mass graves,defending private property,prevent drug cartels and armed gangs from taking over neighborhoods and to prevent robbery.

Defend yourself? More people are killed by their own guns than they are used to defend themselves.

To put it in the most simple terms possible for you. MORE GUNS = MORE MURDERS. You aren't protecting sh1t all except your own ego. By owning a gun for "protection" you put your family at more risk than if you didn't. Fact.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
It is not a debate. It is a right.

F*ck your rights. Why do people think the words written years before you were born are untouchable. Sheep. Think for yourselves and you will realise how out-dated and moronic your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is. Instead you just follow it blindly.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: CrastneyJPR

So your alternative is to let the terrorist kill you.

That makes a lot of sense.

So you think everyone should carry a gun all the time, or is it just in your home? What about at school? Should all the teachers be packing guns?

It's baffling that you think everyone having a murder weapon will somehow make you safer, I think it just boils down to your own ego. You care more about being thought of as a man by carrying a gun than the protection of your family. Sad.

a reply to: Jaellma

Only in the last few days I read the number of guns in the country is back near where they were before Pt Arthur.

Now they are illegal guns and not legal guns. Now they will never be able to make people hand them in accept under the penalty of 20 years goal and what sort of democratic country whose govt claims it governs only with the consent of the people, does that to its people instead of having a referendum on the matter like a govt that actually did govern only with the consent of the governed.

Tyranny often masquerades as our protector.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I've always tended to believe that the Australian gun ban was essentially a solution in search of a problem. Its a country that had a little over 300 yearly homicides prior to the ban, a little over 300 homicides yearly for several years following the ban, and has now settled in about 20-25% lower than at the time of the ban...which, interestingly US total homicides are also down a similar percentage in the same time period beginning in 1996.

My opinion? They never had a serious problem with 'gun violence' to begin with and overreacted to a handful of incidents and now pretend that their new laws have protected them from similar incidents occuring when its likely been a combination of low population, statistical odds, longstanding public attitudes toward firearms and their usage, and pure luck. I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I know a thing or two about a wide variety of firearms from personal experience. Looking at what's still more or less readily available in Australia, I suggest that they're fooling themselves if they think their laws are what's kept this from happening again.

That's just my take on it. I may question the true effectiveness of their gun laws, but at the end of the day, Australia can do whatever Australia wants, whether it actually solves anything or not or whether there's actually a problem to solve or not. Its their country, their rules.

originally posted by: SudoNim
More people are killed by their own guns than they are used to defend themselves.

I have not seen that statistic cited yet. I would like to research it more, could you point me in the right direction??

also, you should move to Chicago if you want to live in a jurisdiction which heavily restricted gun rights. Just be careful for the 100,000+ strong army of violent criminal gangs which now claim rule over the city. As long as you do not freely walk into certain neighborhoods, or wear certain colors you should be fine.

What a city to live in huh

a reply to: SudoNim

LOL. I was a military intelligence operative for 6 years...lol

And marine corps security forces. I take defending my family, my country and myself VERY seriously...

Jaden

a reply to: SuicideKing33

Straight into campaigning, like the husband of the recently murdered British politician Jo Cox.

Here in the UK we've just had a shooting blamed on a lone nut but fulfilling everything the globalists want.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

I'd start with the American Journal of Epidemiology and American Journal of Public Health they are pretty simple for you.

Living in Chicago sounds f*cking awful like most of America. You'd be better off living in the civilised countries that have sensible gun control laws. Thats if you value the safety of your family... clearly many people here don't.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: SudoNim

LOL. I was a military intelligence operative for 6 years...lol

And marine corps security forces. I take defending my family, my country and myself VERY seriously...

Jaden

Lots of nervous laughter there. How do you defend your family and country? If you are a public citizen owning a gun then you are not.

You are not stopping mass murders, you are not stopping terrorist attacks, you are not preventing crime all you are doing is making the crime that does take place end in a fatality. That sounds like a sh1t way of protecting your family.

a reply to: SudoNim

No, very little of American cities are like Chicago. In fact the only other places like it are other gun restricted big cities. I live in Tampa, the home of Central Command and SOCOM. JSOC here too. People conceal carry everywhere. There are no safety issues here unless you run into a screaming liberal that wants to violently explain to you why we are racist hateful bigots for not supporting global warfare Hillary who made the Orlando Massacre possible by ending the investigation into her friends Mosque, who happened to be the killers father.


I am researching your sources, but you made that statement as if it was a fact you could easily cite rather than have me go on a wild goose chase. Luckily I actually enjoy investigating so I will see for myself what this bull snap you pander is.

all you are doing is making the crime that does take place end in a fatality.

Yes please, let my family be the fatality instead of that poor misunderstood criminal oh poo!
You don't sound very America to me when you try and defend a violent criminal's right to not die during an act of self defense.

Guess what buddy, people do deserve to die in this world, and many of them do everyday. may you be unarmed one day when confronted by a violent group of "protected class" misunderstood individuals who demand you spread the wealth and submit your loved ones for a night of fun.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

Ok so, 13,835 articles related to gun use at the American Journal of Epidemiology, and 735 articles at the American Journal of Public Health. Since you are the one who claimed to know as fact that:

More people are killed by their own guns than they are used to defend themselves.

Could you save me a day or two of rifling through thousands of articles and narrow it down to where you got the data to support this sound byte you are trying to spread around??

Look I made it easy, there are already links to search results posted. More than you provided already. So it should be easy for you to educate me.

Wow I have seen people cite that Australia is surrounded by water, and that somehow relates to firearm laws. After everything that has been written on this thread, I am truly afraid that we are going backwards in intelligence I was just getting to the point I believed people are becoming enlightened, and not herded like sheep. Gun control I.E. taking away firearms from civilians is an the utmost ignorant way to solve ANY problem. Sadly that was figured out many years ago. Attempting to insert Gun Control is a backwards, inept, and childish way to deal with anything, and the people who support it are childish morons. Burn me at the stake, you either will listen to what the other side (my pro-gun rights side) has to say, or go on spouting crap you hear from sources that you agree with. I'm 24 years old, and I've spent every day of my life since I became conscious and aware of what being an American is all about, fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights and keeping them. I can cite a hundred reasons why I do this with all my heart, and I've defended them on every board and forum I've ever been to, in real life and online. Sometimes I'm the only damn one there that even is defending my 2nd Amendment. My college degree was partly gotten just so I could help better understand and defend my 2nd Amendment rights. So yeah by most Liberal standards I'm a psychotic mad raving lunatic who wants more massing shootings and hate. Call that a stupid statement about how Liberals view people like myself, but after years of dealing with them, I think I've had those names thrown at me more than any other, so its from their own mouth, not mine.

Who the hell do you think you are?. That's a speech that I've developed and given before to people who are for banning any type of firearm and making harsher laws against firearms and their owners. The name says it all, who in the hell do YOU think YOU are, do you think you have god given rights to take away my firearms? that statement usually has people throw me into the loony bin, probably because it has the G word in it. But in all seriousness, which this is the most serious thing that can be debated and discussed, who the hell gives you the right to take away my 2nd Amendment. Answers to this are usually either "I'm only trying to ban (insert specific gun type or model here)" OR "I'm only trying to stop more people from dying because of gun violence". The first one is virtually always because the person wishing to do that, has a lack of understanding of firearms, and more than that, a lack of understanding about everything that causes and stops firearm related deaths. The second one is a tiny more difficult to approach because you either end up sounding like you want people and children to die, or you end up sounding like you want people and children to die. There isn't any way around it, yes seeking to prevent peoples death is a NOBLE statement and cause to seek. But would you believe it if I told you that is the exact and very thing I am wishing to do by protecting my 2nd Amendment right?

Yes it's true, I am seeking to prevent people's death by helping people own firearms, get trained in firearms, and educate people in general about firearms, more firearms is better. There is no way that a foaming at the mouth Liberal has made it this far, and if they have, that last statement just sent them flying through the roof. But it's just not heard that much because they don't seek the other side like I do. But I digress, as I was saying I am seeking the same noble ideal as people who wish to ban guns, the problem is they do not understand the complete issue, only one part and one side of it. I want anti-gun people to not forcibly come to the other side, but come together so we can scientifically discuss this issue, and not just scientifically but logically and philosophically too. I want to be taught, I want to learn, and believe me I have done my best to learn everything I can about the opposites opinions and views, that is why I've dedicated so much time to this issue, so I can see all sides. And even after all of that I am still a 100% believer in the 2nd Amendment, it saves lives, guns save lives, and any law seeking to take them away is nothing but an uneducated, backwards agenda seeking (often vote pandering) way to attempt to solve the issue. Now how about Australia?

You want to talk Australian? then let's. First of all, Australia's crime rate has soared through the roof, specifically the gun violence rate. Secondly, the statistics you see touted as 'proving Australia did the right thing' is nothing but a lie. That is something I see time after time after time, is lies with this subject. Why do they have to lie about it if its such a good thing?. Let's do this, Australia's own statistics say this

"Charges for crimes involving firearms have increased dramatically across the island" And this

"In Victoria, pistol-related offenses doubled over the last decade. In New South Wales, they tripled. The other states saw smaller but still significant increases."

But that isn't all, and please remember that these were recent quotes from Australia's own publishing's.

"The fourfold rise in handgun-related charges in NSW in the past decade points to the existence of a big illegal market for concealable firearms that seems to have been underestimated in the past."

Please read the article here: thenewdaily.com.au..." target="_blank" class="postlink">thenewdaily.com.au... et-gun-problem-exposed/

In short, it states that all those problems in gun violence is caused by one of two sources, legal gun owners still owning firearms, or the extraordinarily large black-market problem they have going on. This is just funny from my stand point because this was predicted decades ago, and yet people still want to disagree due to one variable or another. The ammunition for one thing was pointed out, England has virtually no ammunition stores, and virtually no way to obtain legal firearms save for a few convoluted ways to obtain a shotgun if you can write enough essays on why you think you should be allowed to shoot clay pigeon. And yet there is still ways to obtain ammunition and firearms that are even difficult for LEGAL gun owners here in the United States to obtain (I.E. class III select fire weapons). My friend showed me with no hesitation how easy it was to obtain an IWI manufactured UZI with several full magazines outside of London, I was shocked at how easy it was for an old man with no real serious contacts in the underworld to have the ability to purchase such. All of this goes to show that guns will get in, they will be used for gun violence, if you think otherwise you need to see a psychologist because you are truly loony. The example above was given out of personal experience, if you need to find statistics about violence, gun related or not, in England, it's not hard, however it IS hard to defend yourself there, as they think you shouldn't have your god given right to defend yourself with whatever is popular and easy (firearms are easiest for anyone to defend themselves with).

But linking gun shootings and prevention, to a law that was intended one way or another to prevent it, is honestly just stupid. It is the continual attempt to correct human behavior through paperwork. Think about that last sentence, it's the core of this entire argument.

originally posted by: SudoNim
a reply to: AmericanRealist

I'd start with the American Journal of Epidemiology and American Journal of Public Health they are pretty simple for you.

Living in Chicago sounds f*cking awful like most of America. You'd be better off living in the civilised countries that have sensible gun control laws. Thats if you value the safety of your family... clearly many people here don't.

Chicago is extremely strict with firearm control, virtually nobody there owns a permit to carry a firearm anywhere. But what does that cause? more gun control equals....more gun violence? is that right? yes it is because that is the backwards, uneducated solution to the actual problem. You aren't going to take the heroin needle or crack pipe out of someone's hand by stripping them of their right to bear arms. And for the sad people who have to go out everyday in that infested nasty garbage ridden hate filled city, to be forced to go out without the ability to carry a firearm to protect themselves, from the criminals who do it whether its legal or not, is one example as to why its just a backwards uneducated attempt at solving the problem by giving another problem. Try educating yourself before speaking out.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: CrastneyJPR

So your alternative is to let the terrorist kill you.

That makes a lot of sense.

So you think everyone should carry a gun all the time, or is it just in your home? What about at school? Should all the teachers be packing guns?

It's baffling that you think everyone having a murder weapon will somehow make you safer, I think it just boils down to your own ego. You care more about being thought of as a man by carrying a gun than the protection of your family. Sad.

After reading your other posts, you are the one that is truly baffling. Someone who wishes to protect the ones they love, is somehow as dangerous as a maniac wielding a machete, a butcher knife? another gun?. What is this fantasy world you and all the other mindless anti-gun crusaders live in? Because it takes a very special person to believe that firearms in the hands of people whom are not criminals, whom are going about their daily business, and most importantly of all WANT to keep a firearm on there for their protection and the protection of others, are the dangerous ones. That kinda thought takes a special person indeed...

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: CrastneyJPR

So your alternative is to let the terrorist kill you.

That makes a lot of sense.

So you think everyone should carry a gun all the time, or is it just in your home? What about at school? Should all the teachers be packing guns?

So your solution is to let mass shooters just kill you. Think about how ridiculous that option is.

It's baffling that you think everyone having a murder weaponIt is not a "murder weapon" it is a specialized tool. Like a hammer, a scalpel,a shovel, screwdriver,a pencil, a keyboard, or a paint brush. will somehow make you safer, I think it just boils down to your own egoNope. If an attacker has a gun and I don't what options do I have? kiss them? lol. You care more about being thought of as a manWomen can carry guns too by carrying a gun than the protection of your family.I am sorry you feel that way. Sad.

Still dodging my question.

If an armed robber/rapist/gang member has a smuggled firearm that they bought on the black market and is shooting at another person or threatening to shoot at another person that is unarmed what options does that person that is unarmed have that is being shoot at and/or threatened by the armed robber/rapist/terrorist/gang member?

Please answer the question.