Goldman Sachs is sponsoring a Scientology-based jail ‘re-education’ program

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: Aristotelian1

It's not a straw man at all, seeing as the law in question concerns individuals .

It is a strawman. Anytime you set up a different argument that the arguer is making and knock it down, it's a strawman.

I wouldn't normally copy one of my threads to another, but I made a thread on how Scientology is nothing more than a cult.

Sexual abuse, torture, unlawful inprisonment and a whole list of other things.

They're nothing but a business disguised as a religion to evade paying taxes. Why else would you need to pay for information or "enlightenment" that anyone else can find using google?

The cult of Scientology

(OP. If you want me to remove this post, just let me know)

a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew
To answer your question, do I believe in Scientology, no.

But Are they right about alot of things? Yes.

There is a huge difference between being imperfect and outright lying. People aren't perfect, they're wrong sometimes.

a reply to: Aristotelian1

Lol. Your one of those. Fallacy callers have little to offer nor understand the concepts they use. Plus I was not addressing you.

originally posted by: Aristotelian1

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: SpecialSauce

They didn't prosecute a dead man and you think that means there is some truth to Scientology?


That makes absolutely no sense at all.

This is a Straw Man. They didn't prosecute Scientology. Special Sauce is saying they didn't prosecute Scientology, not the founder.

Me summarizing his argument and saying it doesn't make sense is not a strawman.

He presented a law that only pertains to individuals and somehow claims that because the entity known as Scientology wasn't prosecuted under that law it somehow shows Scientology is right.

You somehow claim me pointing that out is a strawman.

Did you somehow miss that specialsauces argument was a logical fallacy to begin with?

originally posted by: SpecialSauce
a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew
But Are they right about alot of things? Yes.

Such as?

There is a huge difference between being imperfect and outright lying. People aren't perfect, they're wrong sometimes.

You're correct. Scientology and scientologist me have flat out lied. They have been caught in those lies and CONTINUED to lie.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I'm no lawyer, but


Corporate liability
In criminal law, corporate liability determines the extent to which a corporation as a legal person can be liable for the acts and omissions of the natural persons it employs. It is sometimes regarded as an aspect of criminal vicarious liability, as distinct from the situation in which the wording of a statutory offence specifically attaches liability to the corporation as the principal or joint principal with a human agent.

Corporations are people, remember?

a reply to: SpecialSauce

Corporate liability doesn't apply to religions. Even if that religion is a business masquerading as a religion.

a reply to: SpecialSauce

Thankyou for answering. Is there anything specifically they are right about. I haven't yet seen a claim that has been proven correct. Remember scientology research (conducted by scientologist)does not count for obvious reasons. It would help add to the debate I feel.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Not only that the law breached would be unauthorized wear and falsely represent oneself as having received any U.S. military decoration or medal.

Those two things were done by Hubbard the entity known as Scientology can't be prosecuted for what he did.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Exactly.

It's like the Catholic Church scandals. The church isn't the entity held responsible, the individuals are.

a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

Condemning Non tumor or cancer related brain surgery such as the lasectomy, vivisection, bisection and prefrontal lobotomy.

Exposing Electro convulsive therapy aka electric shock treatment.

Doctors Over prescribing medication.

Exposing that Mass killers often have been prescribed antidepressants.

Calling psychiatry a pseudo science. For instance I take an antipsychotic medication for schizophrenia, you know what it was designed for? Allergies, they don't even know how it works. They claim it's a hormone chemical imbalance but they never take a sample of blood or anything else that tests for brain hormone levels. There is no such test that exists.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Scientology is a cult; however to reiterate, MRT =/= scientology as the OP claims. Even MRT is merely a single component in any rehabilitation program (which is going to vary pending on the targeted audience. Is it secured or unsecured placement. Is it CSC, family or community based offenses. When to begin reunification. In CSC cases, its often a family member, so reunification has a victim reintroduction phase especially with juveniles. Does there need to be anger management component. Etc...) There is just so much more involved in the whole process. Its not a conspiracy to brainwash kids into scientology that the op insinuates. The op is trying to equate morals as a religious concept but MRT is about trying to build empathy to follow the social contract.

On a side note: I can't believe im being forced to somewhat defend goldman sachs in a round about way.

originally posted by: SpecialSauce
a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

Condemning Non tumor or cancer related brain surgery such as the lasectomy, vivisection, bisection and prefrontal lobotomy.

Exposing Electro convulsive therapy aka electric shock treatment.

Doctors Over prescribing medication.

Exposing that Mass killers often have been prescribed antidepressants.

Calling psychiatry a pseudo science. For instance I take an antipsychotic medication for schizophrenia, you know what it was designed for? Allergies, they don't even know how it works. They claim it's a hormone chemical imbalance but they never take a sample of blood or anything else that tests for brain hormone levels. There is no such test that exists.

This is both a quality post and one I agree with.

originally posted by: Cypress
a reply to: TerryDon79

Scientology is a cult; however to reiterate, MRT =/= scientology as the OP claims. Even MRT is merely a single component in any rehabilitation program (which is going to vary pending on the targeted audience. Is it secured or unsecured placement. Is it CSC, family or community based offenses. When to begin reunification. In CSC cases, its often a family member, so reunification has a victim reintroduction phase especially with juveniles. Does there need to be anger management component. Etc...) There is just so much more involved in the whole process. Its not a conspiracy to brainwash kids into scientology that the op insinuates. The op is trying to equate morals as a religious concept but MRT is about trying to build empathy to follow the social contract.

On a side note: I can't believe im being forced to somewhat defend goldman sachs in a round about way.

Just out of curiosity. How do you define, "cult?"

Wow!

I took a nap and I woke up and I am so impressed by (most) everyone that has contributed more content to my thread! This is an issue very dear to me as I have known some close friends get caught up in this organization.

I have this to say to any Scientologists or potential Scientology recruits:

There is a lot of lore about the church, mostly negative but some positive. Without having a clear background on the history of the church and its founder, it may be very tempting to go 'see what it's all about' by visiting their website, visiting one of their centers, or reading Dianetics.

Your quest for truth and enlightenment by unconventional means is not blight. Many of us, myself included, have been on this quest for most of our lives.

If you are indeed attracted to this organization because it offers you some comfort in explaining the unknown, and even suggesting that you may have psychic powers that lay dormant, I suggest you do yourself a favor and first learn about everything that LRH was doing in his life before he created Scientology.

If you are attracted to Scientology because of its philosophies on UFOs/Paranormal/Psychic Abilities know that LRH borrowed everything from some other historical figure, most of which could not defend their ideas because they were dead.

LRH's son is on record saying that Scientology is really just a form of Crowlian Magick, spread out over the course of a lifetime so that it is not obvious to its followers.

So if you are thinking about pursuing Scientology for one of these many reasons I have listed, I urge you to GO TO THE SOURCE.

Most of the concepts and ideas in Scientology have originated from the teachings of Aleister Crowley, who in turn, borrowed them from the mystics & magicians that came before him.

Truth is FREE. You should not have to pay for enlightenment. It is something you can do yourself, that is what makes it beautiful. Everything that Scientology teaches is a bastardization of some basic occult principle. If you want to learn, go to the source.

Study the Occult. Study its history and its followers. This can only do you good.

Thanks again to everybody who participated in this thread!

a reply to: Cypress

I would have to agree that mrt =/= Scientology.

(I almost feel the same as you. I feel icky lol)

a reply to: ColdWisdom

LRH did copy almost everything from AC. Changed a few things. Then put a new spin on it and "TA-DA!" Scientology.

originally posted by: Aristotelian1

originally posted by: Cypress
a reply to: TerryDon79

Scientology is a cult; however to reiterate, MRT =/= scientology as the OP claims. Even MRT is merely a single component in any rehabilitation program (which is going to vary pending on the targeted audience. Is it secured or unsecured placement. Is it CSC, family or community based offenses. When to begin reunification. In CSC cases, its often a family member, so reunification has a victim reintroduction phase especially with juveniles. Does there need to be anger management component. Etc...) There is just so much more involved in the whole process. Its not a conspiracy to brainwash kids into scientology that the op insinuates. The op is trying to equate morals as a religious concept but MRT is about trying to build empathy to follow the social contract.

On a side note: I can't believe im being forced to somewhat defend goldman sachs in a round about way.

Just out of curiosity. How do you define, "cult?"

Some things that indicate it is a cult would be controlling its own members through a program of isolation, thought-stopping, mind control, milieu control, and propaganda. Breaking up families and friendships through its brutal policy of disconnection. Teaches its members to lie when needed in order to protect the Church. Puting its own members through brutal interrogations called security checks, or “sec checks.” The Church of Scientology video records all auditing sessions. This is allegedly done for training purposes. However, the confidential contents of auditing sessions are routinely used by OSA to attack, slander, defame, and embarrass Scientologists who leave the Church and speak out against the abuses of Scientology. Running an intelligence-gathering and Fair Game operation called the Office of Special Affairs (OSA). The purpose of OSA is to attack perceived Church enemies and engage in character assassination, smears, and to get people fired from their jobs.

originally posted by: Aristotelian1

originally posted by: Cypress
a reply to: TerryDon79

Scientology is a cult; however to reiterate, MRT =/= scientology as the OP claims. Even MRT is merely a single component in any rehabilitation program (which is going to vary pending on the targeted audience. Is it secured or unsecured placement. Is it CSC, family or community based offenses. When to begin reunification. In CSC cases, its often a family member, so reunification has a victim reintroduction phase especially with juveniles. Does there need to be anger management component. Etc...) There is just so much more involved in the whole process. Its not a conspiracy to brainwash kids into scientology that the op insinuates. The op is trying to equate morals as a religious concept but MRT is about trying to build empathy to follow the social contract.

On a side note: I can't believe im being forced to somewhat defend goldman sachs in a round about way.

Just out of curiosity. How do you define, "cult?"

See the thread I linked to. That sums it up pretty well (if I do say so myself lol)