Can anyone Achieve financial success and wealth?

a reply to: amazing

Nobody ever achieves any sort of success at anything without putting in the hard yards. I wouldn't have thought this had to be stated as I thought there would universal acceptance of this and would therefore would not have to be stated but there is always someone for whom the perfectly obvious has to be sated.

having said all that, I am sure that even you would agree, that if all that was required to achieve wealth in life is hard work, then all one would have to do is work hard, no brains, talent, intelligence etc is required. Yea right, but I assume from your reply that you agree with this propisition.

a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: amazing

Nobody ever achieves any sort of success at anything without putting in the hard yards. I wouldn't have thought this had to be stated as I thought there would universal acceptance of this and would therefore would not have to be stated but there is always someone for whom the perfectly obvious has to be sated.

having said all that, I am sure that even you would agree, that if all that was required to achieve wealth in life is hard work, then all one would have to do is work hard, no brains, talent, intelligence etc is required. Yea right, but I assume from your reply that you agree with this propisition.

yes. Anyone can achieve wealth. Hard work is all that's required. Well that and working smart. You have to buy into a couple of principles.

A. You have to have a good attitude. If you work hard but no one at your job likes you because your a jerk about it you won't leverage that hard work to the next level.

B. You have to be willing to goal set, visualize, read, study, gain new skills, network, learn to sell, be willing to manage and supervise.

C. You have to understand that in the case of the dishwasher. If all you do is come in mind your own business and wash dishes and clean the kitchen, you'll only go so far. As the dishwasher, you have to learn the Manager's job, you have to learn the customer's names, you have to study the manuals, learn other jobs there. That will require you staying later off the clock and taking home materials to study at home. It will require you to come in and learn how to work the cash register, and wait tables and cook the steaks and clean the ovens, and change out the beer kegs, and prep the Salad bar.

I'm telling you that if you want to own a business you can. I might buy a motorcycle next week in Cash. If you want to do that then do what I say and you can too. What do you want that you think you can't achieve?

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

None. But it's not about those guys, it's about you and I. How much hard work have I put in and what have I achieved? What is it that you want to achieve? You can do anything.

I'm 4 months away from launching what appears by all measures to be a successful tech startup that I'm expecting to become filthy rich off by decade end. No college degree, no loans, just killing it working 95% of my spare time after day job, and networking with like minds online.

There's no luck here, not gonna say luck is what you make of it, but timing can be intuited, and networks realized through actively putting yourself out there day after day.

You can't get wealthy working a # job, you want exceptional pay bring something exceptional to the market.

Here, I'm going to try and give a more balanced perspective. In places where people are actually trying hard, lets say a place like India. They have too many minds putting in high efforts churning out degrees in advanced sciences, and medicine. It doesn't matter that the affluent put in very high efforts, because they're just one among 100 million+ doing the same. In the US, it's a different picture. We're entitled, and we've had it too damned good, for too damned long.

So in India, it IS a matter of so called "luck" or rather timing to make the connections, seize the fleeting opportunity. Either that or it's raw talent. The grit factor is minimal if even an edge at all. Why? Because it's the norm.

In the US, we make up a good talk about grit, but who actually goes through the process to drive their selves to success? You put that affluent Indian in the US, and watch him secure high level positions, how do I know this? because that's exactly what is happening. I see foreigners who know what it's like to strive to survive, find a way here and make bank. It might take them years to get the foundation properly seeded, but the growth is almost always that of a wealthy bearing fruit.

How the hell am I doing it? My parents started with nothing, from a tiny town in Louisiana. Moms graduated a year early to marry Paps, paps was army brat on base, scored off the charts, and they married 18, 21. He had his first kid before 23, and channeled his will to achieve into the will to provide. That meant working insane hours. My moms started working high hours after her last was 4 years old. I saw my parents little, but what I did see matched what appeared to be an innate drive to ALWAYS perform my best in whatever I did. I went from putting in best efforts for short bouts, to performing at high level for the long-haul, channeling all my frustrations and anger into a passion to succeed.

I don't allow any petty bull# to get to me, I don't dwell on short-comings, I use them to my advantage, every bit of what can be perceived as negative by those whom I find interest in can either be challenged head on, ignored, or used as a means to learn and flip it towards an edge. I think there's talent in my family, but more than that there's character. You need a will of steel to take on things that will go haywire, drive your insane, and seem to be a complete loss and yet keep to the course. That isn't something anyone can give you, my parents helped out but I had to accept into my core being.

So what of this post? It's not any one thing, but I'd rank character higher than talent higher than skill higher than luck in the west.

originally posted by: amazing
That's just it. You define success. It could be anything...living on the beach, moving to Florida, having a pool, owning your own business, or it could be more. My only point on this thread is that if you want it you can get it. All it takes is hard work. I own my own business. That wasn't luck or connections. It was hard work. Period.

I don't know, I might take you up on the offer in your previous post. Success simply isn't attainable for everyone unless you have low standards. Businesses are built in a pyramid structure, not everyone can be the boss or a highly paid employee (much less a valuable employee). The jobs for that simply don't exist.

Anyways, I've been hearing the hard work line for a decade now. It doesn't work that way, work goes without saying but success comes from something else. Let me give an example: I have 2 years of school left to finish the set of degrees I set for myself that I wanted. Lately I've started getting recruiter calls asking me to drop out, I've passed a couple interviews. They make nice offers, 100k and work remote, 65k with part time hours, and so on. I turned them down to finish my schooling. Do you know the problem I see though? I'm getting the position in the first place (or would have if I accepted).

I am by far the least qualified person in what will be my graduating class. I am the dumbest, I am the worst at programing, I do among the worst on the tests (out of those that pass them), and homework takes me twice as long for half the grade, my GPA is abysmal. There are zero redeeming qualities why a company should be offering me a job other than everyone else not looking (our program forbids working while attending, I can still get interview practice though).

That is called luck. The luck that provides career advancement if I took it. But, school is more important. Once I'm actually competing against my classmates, things shouldn't go that way. I can name and point to 50 people looking for the same position as me with better qualifications. If the working world were a meritocracy where those who work the hardest and with the most talent see the most success all 50 of them will get a job before me. That's probably not going to happen.

originally posted by: Aazadan

I am by far the least qualified person in what will be my graduating class. I am the dumbest, I am the worst at programing, I do among the worst on the tests (out of those that pass them), and homework takes me twice as long for half the grade, my GPA is abysmal. There are zero redeeming qualities why a company should be offering me a job other than everyone else not looking (our program forbids working while attending, I can still get interview practice though).

That is called luck. The luck that provides career advancement if I took it.

You answered it right there. It has nothing to do with "luck". It has to do with supply and demand. IT recruiters are trying their best to find properly qualified individuals to fill the ranks.

I could be set making bank in a corporate role if only I cared to whore my time out getting the proper education and working for the man.

Kudos for putting in the efforts. I'd never survive the bore.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: amazing

Nobody ever achieves any sort of success at anything without putting in the hard yards. I wouldn't have thought this had to be stated as I thought there would universal acceptance of this and would therefore would not have to be stated but there is always someone for whom the perfectly obvious has to be sated.

having said all that, I am sure that even you would agree, that if all that was required to achieve wealth in life is hard work, then all one would have to do is work hard, no brains, talent, intelligence etc is required. Yea right, but I assume from your reply that you agree with this propisition.

yes. Anyone can achieve wealth. Hard work is all that's required. Well that and working smart. You have to buy into a couple of principles.

A. You have to have a good attitude. If you work hard but no one at your job likes you because your a jerk about it you won't leverage that hard work to the next level.

B. You have to be willing to goal set, visualize, read, study, gain new skills, network, learn to sell, be willing to manage and supervise.

C. You have to understand that in the case of the dishwasher. If all you do is come in mind your own business and wash dishes and clean the kitchen, you'll only go so far. As the dishwasher, you have to learn the Manager's job, you have to learn the customer's names, you have to study the manuals, learn other jobs there. That will require you staying later off the clock and taking home materials to study at home. It will require you to come in and learn how to work the cash register, and wait tables and cook the steaks and clean the ovens, and change out the beer kegs, and prep the Salad bar.

I'm telling you that if you want to own a business you can. I might buy a motorcycle next week in Cash. If you want to do that then do what I say and you can too. What do you want that you think you can't achieve?

Thanks for you comments. I think we agree on the same things.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

If all we had to do to get rich is to work hard then all we would have to work hard. Does Donald Trump work 1000 time harder than me? Is that possible.

A bloke who was important in my life worked far harder than me and quite possibly you too, during his lifetime on his farm and at end of his life he had no more money than I have now, close to retirement. near non SFA.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

If all we had to do to get rich is to work hard then all we would have to work hard. Does Donald Trump work 1000 time harder than me? Is that possible.

A bloke who was important in my life worked far harder than me and quite possibly you too, during his lifetime on his farm and at end of his life he had no more money than I have now, close to retirement. near non SFA.

But that's the key difference. Work hard and smart. You don't have to be smart to work smart, you just have to copy what other people do.

Take the case of the Dishwasher again. A dishwasher might work harder than anyone on earth, putting in a hundred hours week only to go home and take care of his family and house and kids and dogs and car. And he could do that every day for 60 years and still be dirt poor.

Working smarter means writing down goals and achieving them. It means you leverage every single success.

That dishwasher, as I did for free, needs to memorize every single aspect of that restaraunt and get management books from the library, again for free, until that dishwasher becomes a shift supervisor and then again a salaried manager, until he's got experience, padded his resume, met all the vendors and is ready for the next evolution, he may not want to be a supervisor or manager but as I did, he can leverage that to another industry and climb that ladder, or...You write or do artwork or learn a hobby so thouruloughy that you can turn it into a part time profession and start going on that way. There are a million paths to success.

That farmer could have tried new crops, got interns from a university, farming club etc, rented some property for signage, cell tower use, sold some land for a housing tract, used his land for something other than farming like camping or day trips for a school or church group ...there are so many things that guy could have done, He chose not to. He could have been successful if he'd wanted to or had the ambition to. Many of us are stuck in our little paradigms and ruts...some of us are happy there so we're not really stuck. Again success is what you want. All I'm saying is that if you want more, you can have it. Do you chose it or not?

a reply to: amazing

What you're missing is that someone has to be that dishwasher. That any individual dishwasher can move up is only because the rest of society is too lazy to also attempt to advance. If they're all studying and working hard, why should anyone ever promote the dishwasher?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

If all we had to do to get rich is to work hard then all we would have to work hard. Does Donald Trump work 1000 time harder than me? Is that possible.

A bloke who was important in my life worked far harder than me and quite possibly you too, during his lifetime on his farm and at end of his life he had no more money than I have now, close to retirement. near non SFA.

But that's the key difference. Work hard and smart. You don't have to be smart to work smart, you just have to copy what other people do.

Take the case of the Dishwasher again. A dishwasher might work harder than anyone on earth, putting in a hundred hours week only to go home and take care of his family and house and kids and dogs and car. And he could do that every day for 60 years and still be dirt poor.

Working smarter means writing down goals and achieving them. It means you leverage every single success.

That dishwasher, as I did for free, needs to memorize every single aspect of that restaraunt and get management books from the library, again for free, until that dishwasher becomes a shift supervisor and then again a salaried manager, until he's got experience, padded his resume, met all the vendors and is ready for the next evolution, he may not want to be a supervisor or manager but as I did, he can leverage that to another industry and climb that ladder, or...You write or do artwork or learn a hobby so thouruloughy that you can turn it into a part time profession and start going on that way. There are a million paths to success.

That farmer could have tried new crops, got interns from a university, farming club etc, rented some property for signage, cell tower use, sold some land for a housing tract, used his land for something other than farming like camping or day trips for a school or church group ...there are so many things that guy could have done, He chose not to. He could have been successful if he'd wanted to or had the ambition to. Many of us are stuck in our little paradigms and ruts...some of us are happy there so we're not really stuck. Again success is what you want. All I'm saying is that if you want more, you can have it. Do you chose it or not?

You make good points and you have put up a good recipe and model to use to get ahead. However at the end of the day I reckon, that while we can all influence the course of our lives for better or worse, we determine the basic course of our life before we are born and as I said at the begining we are not all born equal in so many different subtle and not so sublte ways. In Australia we have a bloke in a cage for the rest of his natural when at the age of 29 years and with an intellectual age of 13 years old, he pleaded guilty to shooting 37 people in a restaurant in April 1993. He had an IQ of 66 and had been placed into financial administration by the state supreme court. Every lawyer and law student in the land knows that a bloke in his situation is legally incapable of making any plea and the the court must enter a not guility plea. This is to ensure the legal maxim 'he who alleges must prove'

He pleaded guilty so he could get a TV in his cell.

There aint much this bloke can do get out of that situation, but perhaps he chose this path before he was born so he could have the experience and learn from it and thereby make some progress up the golden path.

Perhaps yourself and the Trumps of the world also chose the path your own for the same reasons.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: amazing

What you're missing is that someone has to be that dishwasher. That any individual dishwasher can move up is only because the rest of society is too lazy to also attempt to advance. If they're all studying and working hard, why should anyone ever promote the dishwasher?

But not everyone has that ambition, that drive or that belief in themselves to advance. Also, all the fresh out of high school and college and laid off workers need that job as a starting off place. There will always be that person that needs the job and there will always be room for advancement.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Azureblue

How much hard work did the Walton children put in?

Gina Reinhardt?

Hell, even Donald Trump?

If all we had to do to get rich is to work hard then all we would have to work hard. Does Donald Trump work 1000 time harder than me? Is that possible.

A bloke who was important in my life worked far harder than me and quite possibly you too, during his lifetime on his farm and at end of his life he had no more money than I have now, close to retirement. near non SFA.

But that's the key difference. Work hard and smart. You don't have to be smart to work smart, you just have to copy what other people do.

Take the case of the Dishwasher again. A dishwasher might work harder than anyone on earth, putting in a hundred hours week only to go home and take care of his family and house and kids and dogs and car. And he could do that every day for 60 years and still be dirt poor.

Working smarter means writing down goals and achieving them. It means you leverage every single success.

That dishwasher, as I did for free, needs to memorize every single aspect of that restaraunt and get management books from the library, again for free, until that dishwasher becomes a shift supervisor and then again a salaried manager, until he's got experience, padded his resume, met all the vendors and is ready for the next evolution, he may not want to be a supervisor or manager but as I did, he can leverage that to another industry and climb that ladder, or...You write or do artwork or learn a hobby so thouruloughy that you can turn it into a part time profession and start going on that way. There are a million paths to success.

That farmer could have tried new crops, got interns from a university, farming club etc, rented some property for signage, cell tower use, sold some land for a housing tract, used his land for something other than farming like camping or day trips for a school or church group ...there are so many things that guy could have done, He chose not to. He could have been successful if he'd wanted to or had the ambition to. Many of us are stuck in our little paradigms and ruts...some of us are happy there so we're not really stuck. Again success is what you want. All I'm saying is that if you want more, you can have it. Do you chose it or not?

You make good points and you have put up a good recipe and model to use to get ahead. However at the end of the day I reckon, that while we can all influence the course of our lives for better or worse, we determine the basic course of our life before we are born and as I said at the begining we are not all born equal in so many different subtle and not so sublte ways. In Australia we have a bloke in a cage for the rest of his natural when at the age of 29 years and with an intellectual age of 13 years old, he pleaded guilty to shooting 37 people in a restaurant in April 1993. He had an IQ of 66 and had been placed into financial administration by the state supreme court. Every lawyer and law student in the land knows that a bloke in his situation is legally incapable of making any plea and the the court must enter a not guility plea. This is to ensure the legal maxim 'he who alleges must prove'

He pleaded guilty so he could get a TV in his cell.

There aint much this bloke can do get out of that situation, but perhaps he chose this path before he was born so he could have the experience and learn from it and thereby make some progress up the golden path.

Perhaps yourself and the Trumps of the world also chose the path your own for the same reasons.

Yes, he's disabled and yes we could be born in Syria. That's a different path. But if you have a reasonable IQ and physical abilities and you are born in a country like USA, England or Canada or any even India, then Success is yours for the taking if you want it and if you work for it.

originally posted by: amazing
But not everyone has that ambition, that drive or that belief in themselves to advance. Also, all the fresh out of high school and college and laid off workers need that job as a starting off place. There will always be that person that needs the job and there will always be room for advancement.

I don't know about that, I see that ambition in everyone I meet. Maybe we just know very different people. I don't think you're doing your argument any favors though when it boils down to "you can advance because others are lazy".

I think you misunderstood my point with the dishwasher too. I wasn't arguing that people wouldn't always need them, I was arguing that they can't all move up from there. Businesses are structured in a pyramid fashion, there's only 1 manager for every 10 dishwashers so only 1 in 10 can move up. There's only 1 manager for every 10 lower managers, and so on. Most people cannot move up because of this, the jobs simply don't exist in a traditional corporate structure.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: amazing
But not everyone has that ambition, that drive or that belief in themselves to advance. Also, all the fresh out of high school and college and laid off workers need that job as a starting off place. There will always be that person that needs the job and there will always be room for advancement.

I don't know about that, I see that ambition in everyone I meet. Maybe we just know very different people. I don't think you're doing your argument any favors though when it boils down to "you can advance because others are lazy".

I think you misunderstood my point with the dishwasher too. I wasn't arguing that people wouldn't always need them, I was arguing that they can't all move up from there. Businesses are structured in a pyramid fashion, there's only 1 manager for every 10 dishwashers so only 1 in 10 can move up. There's only 1 manager for every 10 lower managers, and so on. Most people cannot move up because of this, the jobs simply don't exist in a traditional corporate structure.

Fair point but you're using the scarcity argument. You're saying that the reason people can't move up is because there is no room. That's simply not true.

Example. Restaurants I've worked in. Fully staffed, with more than enough shift, Assistant and general managers. Wait staff and cooks. Absolutely no room to advance. In fact, very few job listings for openings in any restaurant. But eventually all shift and assistant managers either move up or out to other jobs. Most general managers move up or out as well. If you wait long enough and work hard enough and have the right attitude, you will eventually move up. In fact people that move on to other restaurants will remember you and take you with them or keep you informed when an opening happens in their new store. Sometimes there just is no vertical movement. one of my last jobs was like that, so I just moved to another company in the same industry where there was room to advance.

When you talk about ambition, most people don't have it. Sure everyone want's a better car, more vacation time, and this and that, but few really have the ambition to work for it. My last job, I was telling everyone that I was going to start my own business for a year as I planned and saved money and got ready. Years later, almost every single person is still working in that job, good security, decent pay, but they aren't reaching for their dreams as I did. They don't spend every single night after working 8-10 hours working on plans and training and networking and on and on...they go home, eat, crack open a bear and watch duck dynasty on TV.

originally posted by: amazing
When you talk about ambition, most people don't have it. Sure everyone want's a better car, more vacation time, and this and that, but few really have the ambition to work for it. My last job, I was telling everyone that I was going to start my own business for a year as I planned and saved money and got ready. Years later, almost every single person is still working in that job, good security, decent pay, but they aren't reaching for their dreams as I did. They don't spend every single night after working 8-10 hours working on plans and training and networking and on and on...they go home, eat, crack open a bear and watch duck dynasty on TV.

What do you call ambition? I know people with Masters degrees in Engineering that are delivering pizza, another friend of mine has a Bachelors in Mathematics and he's a manager at that same pizza store. Those people don't lack ambition, the jobs just aren't there.

The people I know don't get off work, go home, and drink beer and watch TV. They get off work, then put in 6 hours for schooling, like the woman whose husband owns a card shop I like to visit. She puts in 60 hours a week in the shop (10 hours/day 6 days/week), has 3 children to raise, and attends school part time to be a nurse one day. Another one I know, a friend of mine who I went to Community College with, after he completed his program he burned out on school but every day after work goes home and still puts in another 4-6 hours in 3d modeling software, photoshop, etc... trying to become a better artist while having a day job that offers no advancement (they won't even make him an employee, and pay him cash under the table instead).

I'm sure that at some point I've run into these great unwashed masses who put zero effort into life, in fact I know I have because people who just don't give a # stand out, but I run into far more people in life who don't have that mentality and there's not enough jobs to let them all advance, nor is there an opportunity for them to all become entrepreneurs as you managed to do.

But the difference is, somewhere in the future the "unwashed masses" will still be unwashed, unless they make a huge change becoming one of those that do try hard even if they dont make it.

I think the numbers will show the ones that try do in fact have a higher incidence of some semblance of success.

And the ones who dont give a crap, I bet the percentage is ALOT lower that "succeed".

There are no guarantees in life, but you have a better chance if you just try.

originally posted by: smirkley
But the difference is, somewhere in the future the "unwashed masses" will still be unwashed, unless they make a huge change becoming one of those that do try hard even if they dont make it.

I think the numbers will show the ones that try do in fact have a higher incidence of some semblance of success.

And the ones who dont give a crap, I bet the percentage is ALOT lower that "succeed".

There are no guarantees in life, but you have a better chance if you just try.

More will succeed out of the group that tries, but the point was many will still try and fail. What brings about success is luck. It's not 100% chance because you do have to take some actions for yourself, but at the end of the day as you said, there are no guarantees. Some people simply won't succeed.

I think most people understand the saying "born with a silver spoon" so if you've heard the saying and that it basically depends on when and where you were born. So given that it's basically luck on when and where you were born and to who you were born and just take it from there. Everyone in this world would love to be wealthy but that can't be for everyone. There are only so many people born into wealth and the rest of us are born into middle class lower middle class upper middle class and poverty. And the bottom line is how we get out of it, how do we improve ourselves, is college the answer yes or no most families of wealth many have connections and with those connections make more connections and get better jobs or control those jobs. So everyone wants to be rich, everyone wants power so either you're born into it are you have to fight for it and the circumstances are not the same for all. And Also the College fraternities that make even More connections for your future , which has been going on for maybe Centuries or less . So keep in mind that the Powers that be are not so ready to relinquish anything they have to just anyone and most likely to a Family with Power and Connections and they will keep it that way. the U.S Presidency just does not go to just anyone , Think of ALL the Previous Presidents and The Families and where they came From, WEALTH ! That should explain it to all of you. Many years ago there was a saying " Do you want to grow up and be President of the United States" ? well that was just a saying. the real story is what Family you are from, your Family's Wealth , who your Family is Connected to, Where you went to college and what Fraternity did you belong to at college. So any control over any Nation is not just Given Away it is The Powers That Be who Decide Not any of us. if you feel different sorry, but that's the way it goes.