What is being tested at China Lake, Calif, to cause this notice?

You know, one thing I did notice about where the military is doing their "testing" is in just about the same area and aftershock radius as the earthquake today. I am not saying it is related but it seems to be kinda coincidental that it is happening in the same location at the same time they are testing.....

Has anyone investigated if these tests affecting GPS have anything to do with the unusual earthquake swarm in the same area?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Wow, lots of info at that thread, BASS! Personally, it didn't help me much, as I felt like Ginger in that cartoon. "Ginger....blah blah....blah....Ginger......blah...." But Ginger still learned a few new tricks from reading it. Who knows, maybe the F35 technological capability is part of what's going on at CL and the GPS disruption.

OTOH the expose at the end of the thread was outstanding! I won't reveal it here, because, like you said, it probably is what's really going on with military AI.

a reply to: Krypton
The G.P.S system is a multi function weapon that we are not to know about, One ability of any transmitter is that it can broadcast neural information or cause earthquakes or affect weather wile doing 4 other functions. Whatever is being tested is very unprecedented.

originally posted by: F4guy
You may get a little bit of dutch rolling but the airplane isn't going to suddenly go beserk.

What good is THAT? I wanted it to auger in while trailing black smoke. Or at least evoke a few "Oh God Oh God we're all going to dies" from the pilot.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: F4guy
You may get a little bit of dutch rolling but the airplane isn't going to suddenly go beserk.

What good is THAT? I wanted it to auger in while trailing black smoke. Or at least evoke a few "Oh God Oh God we're all going to dies" from the pilot.

You know, that's not very funny. Maybe you want to come along on the next crash investigation I do. Usually, they don't "auger in." They instantly decelerate from several hundred knots to zero. I guess you want to enjoy the liquified brain matter and the bloody stuffed animals that were clutched by the children whose body parts you have to walk across to investigate the wreckage. Have you ever smelled the odor of the cooked flesh that accompanies the "trailing black smoke" you desire? Sorry I don't share your sense of humor but you don't have to share the nightmares.

originally posted by: F4guy
I guess you want to enjoy the liquified brain matter and the bloody stuffed animals that were clutched by the children whose body parts you have to walk across to investigate the wreckage.

Sounds fun!

Or, in other words, lighten up, Francis.

The concept of a control design in the field that might actually malf in a radical way given a minor challenge such as loss of GPS input was the topic, and is still ridiculous. Any production system that gives you more than an audible alarm and some indication that it no longer has a clue where it is and needs pilot intervention on loss of GPS is an engineer's double facepalm.

Your response of "Oh, it won't actually crash, it'll just roll about drunkenly and you have to operate a dozen manual controls whilst rolling about to get another mode that actually works like the engineer designing it wasn't on drugs" was amusing in itself. THAT was what I was responding to.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: F4guy
I guess you want to enjoy the liquified brain matter and the bloody stuffed animals that were clutched by the children whose body parts you have to walk across to investigate the wreckage.

Sounds fun!

Or, in other words, lighten up, Francis.

The concept of a control design in the field that might actually malf in a radical way given a minor challenge such as loss of GPS input was the topic, and is still ridiculous. Any production system that gives you more than an audible alarm and some indication that it no longer has a clue where it is and needs pilot intervention on loss of GPS is an engineer's double facepalm.

Your response of "Oh, it won't actually crash, it'll just roll about drunkenly and you have to operate a dozen manual controls whilst rolling about to get another mode that actually works like the engineer designing it wasn't on drugs" was amusing in itself. THAT was what I was responding to.

I didn't say i"t'll roll about drunkenly"t. You obviously don't have a clue what a dutch roll is. it is a minor self-correcting motion about the longitudinal axis. It is not yaw coupled and it doesn't take operating a dozen manual controls to end. You use a fingertip to push one button labaled "hdng." Try making a point from a position of knowledge and experience rather than wishing for people to die. And as far as concerns the Embraer engineers, there has never been a flight control connected accident. There was one accident in Italy that was a runway overrun accident where the pilot touched own about 40 mph too fast only about 2000 feet from the end of the runway. 2 relatives of Osama bin Laden were killed.

It's basically a test of our ability to use other navigation systems and function in a GPS denied environment. The Pentagon finally figured out that we're too reliant on GPS and we need other systems as well that can function well in an area where GPS doesn't function.

“As you know, GPS is ubiquitous. There is an increasing reliance on GPS across all ranges of military operations, and, of course, we can't forget our critical civilian infrastructure as well. Additionally, GPS jammers have proliferated around the globe, from large and complex militarized jammers to cheap and inexpensive units you can buy online. That means that not only that our peer and near-peer potential adversaries are capable of impacting GPS, but we must be mindful of non-state actors, as well.

Furthermore, we are trying to predict other methods that might be employed against our systems, such as cyber threats. Because it is not just a threat against the radio frequency signal, it is a threat against the actual systems that control those. Over the past 20 years, GPS has been a force multiplier for our military. But we cannot assume that any longer. We have to be proactive in protecting this valuable resource.”

The Captain continued, discussing the challenges presented by a GPS degraded combat environment:

“Let me put a little context on top of it. The GPS satellite signal at a user's antenna is very low power. To put that in perspective, a 100-watt bulb is [10 to the 18th power] more powerful than a GPS satellite signal at the receiver's antenna. A low-power jammer can disrupt GPS operations.

To that end, denial and degradation of GPS can have myriad effects on our systems. Without protection, our ships, submarines and aircraft won't be able to properly navigate. Some of our sensors might not function properly, and provide erroneous information to our war fighters. Plus, time and frequency is a critical part of our communications infrastructure. Disruption of time can prevent those networks and communications systems from functioning properly, as well."

www.thedrive.com...

Zaph! Yay! It makes sense.

So there you have it. NAWS China Lake, which does a sizeable portion of its work under the shroud of secrecy, is likely doing absolutely critical work when it comes to ensuring our combat capabilities are not gutted due to the loss of a single capability—GPS. The Navy would not cause such intense series of potential disruptions over such a large timescale unless the testing was of extremely high importance, and figuring out how we can continue to vanquish our enemies without the help of navigational satellites is certainly that.

The remark and link re teaching celestial navigation was interesting. I remember being on a tour of the latest Navy shore landing craft (Navy but carried Marines) (maybe 30 years ago ? ) and we got to meet the captain as he sat in his seat. We all got to ask questions, and I noticed that he had a clipboard with a pad of paper strapped to his thigh. I asked why, in the midst of all the latest technology, he needed paper and pencil. He said that in case all the electronics went out, he still had to get the craft to shore right at the designated time and place, so he had to rely on math using paper and pencil. He knew his trig!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: desert

Well, if it is going to be interrupting GPRS navigation systems, then whatever it is must be some kind of electronic warfare gear. It could be that they are testing a method for preventing satellite data from reaching ground stations, for the purposes of rendering enemy intelligence operations relying on satellite communication from going ahead, or preventing targets being identified.

It could also be some kind of electronic seige weapon. Deploy over target area to mask what is happening on the ground, prevent communications in or out which rely on satellite access, allowing your troops to move through the area without being targeted by satellite guided munitions?

Christ what an imagination.
So this magical device is going to stop enemy satellites from seeing what's going on on the ground.

How's such a device going to stop a couple special forces recording what's going on, jumping on a dirt bike or vehcile and getting out of there and back in range of satellites to communicate their Intel?

There's more possibilities then that as well.

a reply to: mortex

So this magical device is going to stop enemy satellites from seeing what's going on on the ground.

I think satellites use observation methods other than visual. But isn't exactly observation that TB seemed to be talking about.

a reply to: mortex

Modern warfare is conducted with generally smaller units of people, who can be coordinated to perform tasks previously given to larger units. This is because the weapons they carry, and the magazines they carry, can allow more work to be done per man, but it is also because communications technology has developed to more reliably provide command elements with real time data about a battle space.

From vocal communications, to gun camera and helmet camera footage, a range of data is sent from modern military units to their commanders. A range of data is also available to the modern warfighter, including satellite images of the area they are working in, and even real time satellite or drone footage of the battle space.

Decisions can be made at command level much faster and with a greater degree of effectiveness, when these systems are operating to the best of their ability. Taking them totally away from an assaulting force, allows defenders a greater advantage, because they can initiate plans to utilise their local knowledge, without the assaulting force being able to react to changes in circumstances as quickly.

Cut off from command, and the range of data which can be sent to an assaulting force by observers, an on the ground commander has much less data to work from, limited only to what his soldiers can report while under fire from well hidden ambush points, assuming they get any message out at all before being wiped out.

Basically, this essentially blinds the modern warfighter to anything happening outside their immediate view. Serious business!

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: F4guy
You may get a little bit of dutch rolling but the airplane isn't going to suddenly go beserk.

What good is THAT? I wanted it to auger in while trailing black smoke. Or at least evoke a few "Oh God Oh God we're all going to dies" from the pilot.

You know, that's not very funny. Maybe you want to come along on the next crash investigation I do. Usually, they don't "auger in." They instantly decelerate from several hundred knots to zero. I guess you want to enjoy the liquified brain matter and the bloody stuffed animals that were clutched by the children whose body parts you have to walk across to investigate the wreckage. Have you ever smelled the odor of the cooked flesh that accompanies the "trailing black smoke" you desire? Sorry I don't share your sense of humor but you don't have to share the nightmares.

Out here at China Lake we call them lawn darts.
Most of them are target drones that have been hit and are not land-able.
The drone pilot aims them straight down and maxes the throttle.
Range cleanup just pushes what little that's left into the crater.

originally posted by: mortex

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: desert

Well, if it is going to be interrupting GPRS navigation systems, then whatever it is must be some kind of electronic warfare gear. It could be that they are testing a method for preventing satellite data from reaching ground stations, for the purposes of rendering enemy intelligence operations relying on satellite communication from going ahead, or preventing targets being identified.

It could also be some kind of electronic seige weapon. Deploy over target area to mask what is happening on the ground, prevent communications in or out which rely on satellite access, allowing your troops to move through the area without being targeted by satellite guided munitions?

Christ what an imagination.
So this magical device is going to stop enemy satellites from seeing what's going on on the ground.

A jammer that prevents them from transmitting to ground stations or orienting properly prevents humans from seeing what's going on the ground.

How's such a device going to stop a couple special forces recording what's going on, jumping on a dirt bike or vehcile and getting out of there and back in range of satellites to communicate their Intel?

It won't, but that's what soldiers with rifles are for.

And if 'in range' is a few hundred miles away through checkpoints.....