How we CELEBRATE people killing & getting killed in pursuit of EMPIRE (Memorial Day)

originally posted by: Gothmog

How we CELEBRATE people killing & getting killed in pursuit of EMPIRE

What ya mean we ? Speak for yourself and not for me in this one. I dont "celebrate" Memorial Day . I remember all the military that paid the ultimate price for our freedom . Today or tomorrow , please dont give me a truckload of BS as I need no fertilizer on my yard.

What "freedom"; "our" who?

The 'freedom' to dominate, exploit, infringe, subjugate, destabilize, rape?

Thats all war is good for, and when THEY (the talking heads) talk about "our freedom was attacked" (aka US "interests") that's what it means, and thats why I'm so bent about this issue. The fact so many have died for so many LIES, for EMPIRE makes my blood boil.

"Freedom" = Imperialism: It's in the Language
SAY IT ISNT SO.

I say we should all remember on this day, the problem is too few understand what "superpower" actually means, therefore even less have any hope of having a clue how to frame this whole issue.

We all value and remember those that were lost in different ways.

Memorial Day is just a day set aside to honor those that went before us.

Agree, disagree. Love us, hate us, I could really give a sh#t.

I'll remember.

My honoring those is NOT dependent on whether anyone else believes that they deserve it.

I say the talking heads for too long have framed our perceptions about this day, what it means, and how it should be celebrated.

I say, instead of go to the theme park, on Memorial Day, the masses should instead do things like burn effigies of war mongers of times past, or go protest the current ones. Watching images of aircraft carriers and bombs going off on TV, then having a moment of silence, and then having a BBQ partay isn't my idea of honoring the (typically erroneously) fallen.

George Dubya Bush gets to stoke His ego today, have a huge BBQ and a rodeo show out at his private ranch? I dont think so! There should be protestors at his property lines catapulting barrels of rotten tomatoes all up into his coordinates. Maybe a good hazing or two!

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Start it up then, hero. Nobody is stopping you from getting off the computer and walking out the door.

Along with not being shamed or embarrassed to have put on a uniform, most of us also don't give a damn what you do this weekend.

a reply to: Shamrock6

My bad. I forgot the only heroes are the ones whose job counts on them being willing to blow *@(# up and/or go tear gas people.

How many times have I read the lines about how only the people with uniforms & guns defend everyones "freedom"?

Not one single time in my entire life have a ever seen a person in uniform show respect for the people on the homefront who have dedicated years of their life fighting for freedom against the tyrannical superpower system (whom the people in uniform work for), the same system that imposes its will on us ALL within and those without. And plenty of 'civilians' have died for this notion, and many more have had theirs lives ruined in the fight for true genuine freedom... as in practice damn near the only true freedom fighters in this nation as long as I've been alive have been the civilians who resist the uniforms and the system of subjugation they represent.

Admittedly, I am in flyover country, and we do things a little differently around here. So there's that. I don't take offense at you exercising your right to say your piece. I do feel the need to tell you, you can't paint everybody with the same broad brush.

We don't CELEBRATE Memorial Day around here... we OBSERVE it.

When we get together with family, we remember those we have lost. (For us, it's not just our veterans, but all the dear ones who have passed).

When we honor them, we don't think about who won or lost, who got what out of the deal, etc. It's a day when our veterans feel more free to remember some things... some horrific, and some heroic, and some just damn hilarious! !

And we love them, not because of what they did or didn't do. We love them because they are ours.

And why do we only do it on Memorial Day, you ask? We actually don't wait for Memorial Day. Where we can, in small pockets, we do this all year long. Memorial Day happens to be a day set aside so more peole can get together away from the desk or the line or the counter and travel a littlr farther afield and reach people that might not be close by.

So my challenge to you is this. Go find a veteran tomorrow, sit down and listen. Really listen. Not to how the battles came out or whether the end game was right or wrong. Maybe, like you, that vet will have a heavy heart because Imperialism. Or maybe that vet will be burdened with the opposite view... really, what will matter in that exchange isn't the side either of you takes. It's the fact that you let the vet unburden or reminisce, and thus maybe made that one person's burden a little lighter for a minute.

A peaceful day to you and yours.

CSI

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
well listen, you have to become the change you want to see, and that may mean sacrifice. Many soldiers have sacrificed for what they believe in. You will have to do the same if you want the message out there. That means if it takes hurling tomatoes over a citizens private property, you need to be willing to accept the consequences of your sacrifice for the message you trying to get out. In that instance some time in a cell, a restraining/trespass order, and probation and fines will be what you get.

But the notoriety of what you have done will draw others to you. Its action that makes real change in the world, not just words.

Now, I am on record routinely admitting we are part of the empire, and I have no reservations whatsoever about it. The system gives me what I need to succeed. is it built on the backs of the oppressed the world over? yea it sure is, and so is every single civ that exists today or the past. If it wasn't NATO after WW2, it would have been the Soviets. If we destroyed ourselves, the Chinese would have risen to fill the void. Either one of them would have been at the very least exactly the same as us in our goals and conquests and the resulting consequences.

Empire is the story of mankind. It did not start with America, but we sure did learn how to perfect it .
The security apparatus in place today ensures this empire will easily survive another century. In fact due to the rate of technological innovation and superiority, it is likely the only thing that can stop this empire now is a geological event of apocalyptic proportions (whole Earth affected), a galactic event of similar proportions (also with similar consequences), or an unbeatable biological threat, again with similar consequences. Basically time will not stop this empire for at least another century. It would take something world ending to end this empire this century.

I don't know about the 22nd though, maybe cooler heads will prevail by then.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Cool rant.

Guess my lack of give a damn what you do with your weekend touched a nerve or something? Because you clearly read a whole lot more into what I said than what I actually said. I'm sorry my apathy towards your internet rant is upsetting to you.

Side note: posting on an Internet forum isn't defending anything or anybody from anything or anybody. It's posting on the Internet.

originally posted by: CantStandIt
We don't CELEBRATE Memorial Day around here... we OBSERVE it.

Allow me to apologize for not clarifying in this regard before: I realize for the actual veteran types, it probably goes as you put it there.

A big part of my overall rant tone from the start was pointed towards the masses who get a day off to go party, and hardly even pay any notice to what its supposed to be about: just like Independence Day goes in practice.

This wasn't meant to be some smear piece on veterans in general.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
Many soldiers have sacrificed for what they believe in.

And thats what pisses me off: they've been lied to, we've all been lied to our entire lives about what this big "superpower" thing is all about. So until we stare it long hard right in the face, it cant possibly change...

Empire is the story of mankind. It did not start with America, but we sure did learn how to perfect it

.
The security apparatus in place today ensures this empire will easily survive another century. In fact due to the rate of technological innovation and superiority, it is likely the only thing that can stop this empire now is a geological event of apocalyptic proportions (whole Earth affected), a galactic event of similar proportions (also with similar consequences), or an unbeatable biological threat, again with similar consequences. Basically time will not stop this empire for at least another century. It would take something world ending to end this empire this century.

You forgot about:
An evolution in human thought.

Which is the true underlying point of this entire ordeal herein. Likewise, those familiar with my works regarding technological change, everything you said there makes it clear why we arent ready for the stuff the Tanshumanists / Singularians / Immortalists all preach and actively work towards under the guise of the military apparatus (and our supposed "need" for it).

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

America # yea!

I was an infantry soldier and you have no idea what you are talking about (we've had these same arguments back in the more conspiracy minded years of ATS), but feel free to keep going. I suggest if you hate it so much, you stick some stakes in the ground define your borders, put on a uniform, and fight for what you believe in, of course if you aren't willing to do that I would suggest there isn't much you do believe in.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I accept your apology with thanks, even though it's not needed. I do see your points, and I don't disagree with the premise that certain interests have a vested stake in the war industry. And I do loathe that there are people that can look at a list of names and see them as 'assets' that are expendable without shedding a tear. I couldn't do that.

My personal opinion is that, while we don't currently have a credible threat of boots on the ground military invasion of American soil, I do sleep better knowing there are people who are well-versed in how to defend against that, should that day come. People who have chosen that path for themselves, as the best option for themselves. I benefit from that, and so I honor those folks.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Most soldiers are not that ignorant. They are fully aware they are being lied to. It does not change the fact that others will always make others their enemy due to a disagreement in how to run things, or price of a resource. On a national level, that is why we have soldiers. America/NATO not being an empire would never stop another faction from being an empire, that is what has to be accepted to move on.

And on the evolution of human thought, I did account for that, somewhere in the 22nd century. It definitely will not be happening this century. Three empires right now are poised to conflict before 2050. Russian, Chinese, and NATO. This conflict is already manifesting in the early stages. Chinese maritime claims and expansion are already creating confrontation in the China Sea. Russian disagreements with NATO expansion has led to the confrontations in Ukraine and Syria.

Assuming the empire of NATO did not exist, there would be nothing to challenge those two empires from expanding in their own right however they see fit.

Personally, I would rather we add some more states by expanding south. Maybe a referendum to bring the Mexican tax payer into our coffers and seal off the Southern much smaller border. then stop babying PR and just tell them "your a state now" and finally have them contribute more to the tax base. I think Haiti would welcome statehood, and with enough media saturation/propaganda I believe we can convince the Cubans over the next few decades to join as well.

Why do we have to stop adding states anyways?? seems to me statehood would benefit all parties I just mentioned.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

So true, you are 100% right - To the OP if its not us it's someone else, take your pick , or stop living in an idealistic world. that's where this conversation always leads to, and the simple truth is the U.S and her allies may have a laundry list of problems, but they are a far cry from the other superpowers that threaten encroachment daily.

Its fallacious to decry that because other empires have / do / will exist that "we" have to be one too. That NATO has to be, etc.

You can have a 'federation' of allies banded against imperialism and it not have to be hegemonic / exploitative /etc. Unless you're an imperialist, I suppose.

Likewise, that whole 'evolution of human thought' would also apply to reaching out to the folks in the other empires, for it to be a grand evolution. But as long as you keep your mind with the eagle then we shall remain stuck on stupid, and oh so many more grave site in Arlingtion for us to stoke our national (imperial) identity with.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Just be glad you aren't speaking Russki or German or Japanese and honor the dead or don't, but if you truly buy into the whole America is imperialist mantra, I implore you to fight against the evil power and put on a uniform.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Your bias has you entirely missing the point: "America" is the Evil Empire. Its why the world feared the USSA more during the Cold War than it did the USSR. Whose to say Russia, China etc would have inherently went the way of empire if not for American Empire meddling since the collapse the USSR. One could easily put together a chronology demonstrating that was in fact the case.

Empires are evil, including "ours":

America's death toll on the world:
Native Americans: approx 10 million
Philippines: approx 1 million
Vietnam: 3+ million
US Bombs Laos: 350,000+
US role in Cambodia: 600,000 dead and 1,000,000+ wounded
Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred
Indonesia: 500,000+
US backed Indonesia against defenseless East Timor: over 600,000, 1/3 of the population
US coerced Indonesia to annex West Papau in 1969:
The Indoensian genocides continue to this day:
CIA essentially puts Saddam hussein into power
US arms Hussein
Hussein goes to war with Iran in 1980: 875,000+ dead
Hussein slaughters Iraqi Kurd's / other Iraqi's: 182,000 - 400,000
US gives Iraq green light to invade Kuwait:
US attacks iraq: 80,000
Iraqi's dead from US sanctions: 500,000 children dead
Iraqi's dead from US-Iraq War / occupation: over 600,000
Nicaragua: 50,000
El Salvador: 50,000-75,000
Guatemala: 200,000
Argentina's Dirty War: 30,000
Operation CONDOR (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay & Uruaguay): 80,000+ Dead/Disappeared
US trained assaulting forces in the 2nd Congo War: 3,800,000
CIA baited USSR in Afghanistan: 1,500,000+
TOTAL: 27,000,000
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And that's only scratching the surface.

If only I started posting the photos of victims from Agent Orange, White Phosphorus, Depleted Uranium, and so on.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Its fallacious to decry that because other empires have / do / will exist that "we" have to be one too. That NATO has to be, etc.

Well if we are not, than we become part of theirs. You know this, because you know history.

You can have a 'federation' of allies banded against imperialism and it not have to be hegemonic / exploitative /etc. Unless you're an imperialist, I suppose.

No, that is not possible but for a short period of time. Every federation of allies becomes an empire. You may try and cite the EU, but they are part of the NATO empire. And if America were not part of the picture at all, they would continue to be romping through Africa, South Asia and Eastern Europe in constant confrontation with Eastern Empires as well. Frankly, the American empire treats their oppressed still better than colonial Europe. The king of Belgium had a legacy in the Congo of cutting off peoples hands to prevent insurrection. The worst we do is drop a bomb in the wrong spot, killing many instantly.

Albeit, we have funded some horrific atrocities through 3rd party dictators, but so has everyone else.

Likewise, that whole 'evolution of human thought' would also apply to reaching out to the folks in the other empires, for it to be a grand evolution. But as long as you keep your mind with the eagle then we shall remain stuck on stupid, and oh so many more grave site in Arlington for us to stoke our national (imperial) identity with.

i am not trying to be confrontational to you just so you know. you were simply laying down some hard realities and truths in the OP. It just so happens I have to do the same in my replies to help build some context.

Are we an empire? Absolutely yes, maybe the greatest and most powerful to have ever manifested on Earth.
Will our absence, or absence as an empire have changed human history for the better? Not likely, considering history has shown someone else always steps up to bat to be the big dog.

The missions to take on or take out NATO is nothing more than greedy ambition to replace our role in the world with themselves. Any replacement would quickly embark back onto the same mission. Be thankful this empire demands for us to be armed in our founding documents. A right that is being attacked subversively by foreign powers with NGO's.

Would the same be said if we were Chinese or Soviet vassals??

For being an EMPIRE we sure have a strange habit of handing the reigns back to the people we liberate.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

its called a Vassal state. Easier to influence a nations policy when the people believe they are still running the show, even if their leaders simply ask "how high" when they are told to jump. No problem here, this is simply how humans have been all of our existence.