MPs warn voters being 'conned' as Brussels keeps plans for EU army secret until after referendum

You what tells me this is nonsense. 7 of the Worlds top 15 arms dealers are EU nations. Nobody is giving up their defense industry which to form a unified military most of them would have to. You can not have ten different rifles in a unified army. And the EU has failed at just creating unified units much less a military. And last European forces are highly dependent on US logistical, command and control and intelligence assets. The cost to duplicate those would be very large, not mention most of NATO's forces are designed to compliment US forces.

originally posted by: Painterz
I have no problem if people want to vote Brexit. But I do have a problem when they're doing so because they believe things that are patently completely untrue.

There is no plan for a secret EU army. Every EU nation is far too attached to having their own armed forces, the French, the Germans, the British, they are never going to hand over control. That's simply not going to happen.


Nor is there any secret plan to make us abandon Sterling. There is absolutely zero mechanism by which the EU can oblige the UK to adopt the Euro. We exercised our opt-out over that, and we are out. It's simply not going to happen.

Do you remember when eu style photocard driving licences were introduced and all the pros were saying they won't be compulsory?
I do and after a few years, if you moved house, wanted new categories added or needed a ripped old one replaced, you HAD TO HAVE A PHOTOCARD.

So don't ever buy into the idea that something won't happen unless a politician states they will resign if it does.

Too many high ups in the EU are on permanent record as saying the EU needs a unified defence force for it not to happen. The only reason anti eu papers publish it is because the guardian would rather lie than make eu membership look anything other than utterly desirable.

Edited to add this tweet by Junker. Just to add emphasis
In the very long run, we will need a European army. Because we have to be credible when it comes to foreign policy #wahlarena #withJuncker

originally posted by: Painterz
I have no problem if people want to vote Brexit. But I do have a problem when they're doing so because they believe things that are patently completely untrue.

There is no plan for a secret EU army. Every EU nation is far too attached to having their own armed forces, the French, the Germans, the British, they are never going to hand over control. That's simply not going to happen.


Nor is there any secret plan to make us abandon Sterling. There is absolutely zero mechanism by which the EU can oblige the UK to adopt the Euro. We exercised our opt-out over that, and we are out. It's simply not going to happen.

According to the Lisbon Treaty, Member States are already obliged to "make civilian and military capabilities available" to the EU. "This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides." It appears then, that these secret talks are the European Council currently deciding on the development of the "Common Defence" aka EU army. That is, the various armies of Britain, France, etc. working together for the EU.

See Article 42 of the Lisbon Treaty:

"2. The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common Union defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides. It shall in that case recommend to the Member States the adoption of such a decision in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.

3. Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council. Those Member States which together establish multinational forces may also make them available to the common security and defence policy."

Another interesting point is this: under 42.7, the EU "Common Defence" is allowed to come into Britain if there is any "armed aggression". So any riot against the government that gets out of hand (and yes, some people do have guns in the UK), can be put down by foreign forces.

"7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States."

www.lisbon-treaty.org... specific-provisions/chapter-2-specific-provisions-on-the-common-foreign-and-security-policy/section-2-provisions-on-the-common-security-and-defence-po licy/129-article-42.html

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
the anti eu types have declared there would be an eu army since the 70's.
remember the telegraph is owned by one of ukip's biggest sponsors, and wants britain out.

I refer you to my previous answer regarding Article 42 of the Lisbon Treaty that obliges Member States to contribute their military to the Common Defence.

a reply to: southbeach

No WE have their backs,I 'm sure small arms wise we have a couple extra.
More on that EU army deal..www.thetimes.co.uk...

some pretty deluded people wandering about.

The UK will block nothing. As soon as you vote "stay" like good little puppies...you will be castrated. Centralization of power is the ultimate goal...and UK will submit...voluntarily even. Public opinion can always be swayed anyway. All it really needs is a guy like Cameron or someone like him...and when the time comes, he will submit gladly.

So, this "EU Army" means we won't need all the US military in Europe any more?

For a supposed federalized super state, they sure do knuckle under to US influence a lot and act as lapdogs to US wishes and commands!
I am sure there are plans also in place to "bring parity" to the new EU Army and everyone will have to buy US arms under the TTP agreement waiting in the wings!

" under 42.7, the EU "Common Defence" is allowed to come into Britain if there is any "armed aggression". So any riot against the government that gets out of hand "

armed will include holding a pillow will it....?

i could hit you with this fish.....

with all the fuss over citizenship for immigrants
why haven't we re-evaluated our rights as citizens
if we really our citizens

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Round objects. I'm no fan of Camblebum, but we are members of NATO. Not going to happen.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
some pretty deluded people wandering about.

The UK will block nothing. As soon as you vote "stay" like good little puppies...you will be castrated. Centralization of power is the ultimate goal...and UK will submit...voluntarily even. Public opinion can always be swayed anyway. All it really needs is a guy like Cameron or someone like him...and when the time comes, he will submit gladly.

Just noticed you're from Croatia ... so i gather probably not British, However

you have hit the nail on the head, and have a better insight than the *Stay in*

Brits who cannot see further than their nose end.

originally posted by: southbeach

originally posted by: MysticPearl
-- snip --
I am sat in a pub having a beer so I could be seeing the World through alcohol induced glasses so take it with a pinch of salt but there is a plan that will benefit the elites by importing lunatic Jihadis.

Save your salt for your next mug of beer. There's nothing wrong with your vision. You just gave a first rate synopsis of what's going on in many, many places. All too soon anyone lucid enough to see things for what they are won't dare voice their concerns.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: T3mp0ra1Pri50n3r

Whats scary is once there is an E.U. army they can take us to war against countries with have no gripe with but even more scarier is that Britain will have a foreign occupying army in its own country and if there is any civil unrest they will have an Army unsympathetic to the citizens it will be sent out to slaughter.
It's part of the plan of the New World Orders Globalization of the Planet.

Hold on a minute, are you trying to say the we in the UK would be taken against our will into wars in which we have no interest, as if we have been avoiding that like the plague until now?

Seriously?

Man, your argument has the legs of a broken table!

The EU's secret Army..?? I bet you it has Monkeys in it. Please let there be Monkeys. Better still, Flying Monkeys.

originally posted by: Painterz
I have no problem if people want to vote Brexit. But I do have a problem when they're doing so because they believe things that are patently completely untrue.

There is no plan for a secret EU army. Every EU nation is far too attached to having their own armed forces, the French, the Germans, the British, they are never going to hand over control. That's simply not going to happen

If you listen to the top important officials in the EU, you would realise that their long-term aim is to have an EU Army.
www.euractiv.com...

Even the German defense minister Ursula von der Leyen has said...

The European Army is our long-term goal but first we have to strengthen the European Defence Union

I don't think it will happen in the next decade but eventually they will get what they want.
They will probably start fining countries if they don't adopt their Defence policy, similarly like they have done with their refugee policy.