MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

a reply to: Zaphod58

how many more 777s have disappeared?

a reply to: username74

What does that have to do with it? The 777 has a great safety record but a few have crashed over the years, as with any other plane.

a reply to: Zaphod58

sorry, had to go attend to something. didnt mean to be abrupt.
i was asking out of curiosity.

"Sometimes, as much as we want to believe in a deep dark conspiracy, things really are a coincidence. Losing two aircraft that close together really isn't that much of a stretch. If you study accident trends you'll occasionally see clusters. When Pan Am was operating, at one point they lost 3 707s in less than a year, all to different causes."

"Sometimes, as much as we want to believe in a deep dark conspiracy, things really are a coincidence"
yes, i appreciate that, although you imply that i do not.
" Losing two aircraft that close together really isn't that much of a stretch."
maybe not but having one get shot down and one disappear with transponder issues is certainly statistically unprecedented without foul play.
www.bbc.com...
which is to say if it failed on one aircraft it doesnt stand well to use as a supporting pillar in an argument for the other case.
and to boot you did not address the concomitant improbability of the associated coincidences and the added improbability.
" Dutch police officers who have NO aeronautical forensic experience nor any experience in war munitions are required to present a half baked story based on telephone calls and social media.
A few years back Kuala Lumpur held an International War Crimes Tribunal using Nuremberg laws and tried and found Bush and Cohorts guilty of war crimes.
russia is undermining the dollar as the reserve currency by de-dollarizing which is the reason of all the sanctions - nothing to do with Crimea.
Then we learn that there is a clearing house in Kuala Lumpur for foreign curreny other than the dollar.
Is that a coincidence?
One of the organizers of the KL war crimes tribunal was the former PM of Malaysia, who just happens to also be the founder of Malaysia Airlines."
and against the larger geopolitical backdrop it becomes even more unlikely.

and i must add the countries investigating included the victim(dutch) and one of the possible suspects(ukraine).
you wouldnt get that in any unbiased investigation.

a reply to: paraphi

yeah i too read many conflicting headlines about this, and whether the statement they are de-dollarizing at all is true.gold reserves are a better way to the same destination and so yes, i take your point.
to clarify it is in the larger sense of the B.R.I.C.s that this is happening and also the dollar is in trouble for internal systemic reasons.

a reply to: username74

The Dutch police DO have criminal investigative experience, and can investigate in an attempt to figure out who pulled the trigger. Or are you saying that isn't part of the investigation too? They're also not the only people in the investigation. There are plenty of people that DO have aviation expertise involved as well. You left that part out.

You don't have any idea about how these investigations go do you? The aircraft owner, the country with the largest number of victims, the country it occurred over, the aircraft manufacturer are all involved and all have vested interest. Just who would you have investigating? China? Russia? Australia?

So now the plane was shot down in retribution, and MH370 was made to disappear in retribution. The US is at fault yet again. Got it. So exactly how big is this going to grow?

MH370 wasn't JUST transponder failure, it was multiple systems that failed, in which the transponder was just one of them. A small number of 777s were built with a bracket issue in the cockpit that could cause an oxygen fire. That would cut electrical power, as would several other conditions not involving sabotage or nefarious deeds.

a reply to: username74

I don't know, but the US dollar remains by far the largest traded reserve currency at over 60% for the last two decades. The Euro is around 20%. Sterling and the Japanese Yen take another 10%. Other currencies vie for a place - with the Canadian dollar being more significant than the Chinese Renminbi.

Try as they might, the BRICS are not a significant coherent economic bloc, or a to the established order. The BRICS and don't really have much in common with each other anyway - China is the biggest dictatorship and India is the biggest democracy, the rest are minnows.

a reply to: paraphi

well, may i recommend this
beforethecollapse.com...
and
www.zerohedge.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58


"So now the plane was shot down in retribution, and MH370 was made to disappear in retribution. The US is at fault yet again. Got it. So exactly how big is this going to grow? "

well, precisely, considering that is a large part of the raison d'etre of this site, in some respects, that question is a little disingenuous.
you baulk at approaching the circumstantial aspects of the case thus disregarding possible motives and the larger geopolitical scenario.
i understand some members are of a purely technical bent and while i respect that i feel i have pushed your preconception a little too far.
the ramifications are more than you are willing to consider.
there is visual evidence out there (satellite and other int.)
it has not been released.
trash in = trash out

oh, for the record i did not explicitly blame the u.s.

a reply to: username74

Fantasy. Just like what you have been saying about MH-17. You have swung through various ideas starting with your view - based on a single photo - that MH-17 was shot down by cannon-fire, a view you have been unable to provide a shred of evidence. Now you are trying to link the tragedy with other disasters.

a reply to: username74

No, you didn't blame the US explicitly, just happened to mention that Bush and Cheney were convicted of war crimes in a Kuala Lumpur court when talking about it. That was sheer happenstance, right?

You aren't pushing anything. You're all over the map. You started with "it was cannon fire", now you're up to "the US did it along with MH370 in retribution". Which is funny because it would be easy to get a SAM launcher and use that and make everything add up with a bow, but apparently they aren't that smart.

a reply to: Zaphod58
it looks like you and paraphi are stuck in a rut.
try using links to evidence to support your thinly veiled rhetoric and implied ad hominem.
its tedious to paddle through.
i have linked over a hundred articles, op-eds, photographic and official sources.
you bring nothing but invective.
you can't acknowledge the shortfall of your perspective
the bell rings and the dogs salivate.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Salander

And you put a lot of stock in someone that no one has been able to prove exists that made claims that aren't backed up by actual data, simply because it doesn't agree with anything official.

No, simply because the signs of cover-up are so strong and so many.

The government, comprised of many corrupt humans, has long displayed a certain pattern of behavior with these cover-ups.

This is one of the more obvious ones for those who saw the early footage.

a reply to: username74

Well in fairness you keep using Zerohedge and Beforethecollapse (and even BeforeItsNews on other threads) as your sources. None of which are known for impartiality or accuracy.

Frankly, you are coming across as another Putin troll bot.

a reply to: username74


I think if you read the A-A report, their point was that the puncture holes observed, if caused by BUK, were consistent with an earlier version of the BUK which Russia hasn't used in many years, but is still in the inventory of Kiev.

I am most skeptical of the BUK claim, no matter what A-A found.

I speculate that 2 aircraft climbed to intercept the airliner, one fired AAM which hit one of the engines, I think left engine from the poor quality video showed by BBC. The other fighter got some real live target practice with the cannon, and clobbered the cockpit. Fortunately for those seeking the truth, one round traced across the upper surface of the left wing with a perfect alignment with the cockpit, making the firing position of the fighter to be about 7 o'clock to the airliner.

a reply to: Flavian


Or he comes across as very skeptical of western media sources with their "anonymous" quotes.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Flavian


Or he comes across as very skeptical of western media sources with their "anonymous" quotes.

Absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that. However, it would be better to find sources from sites that don't routinely make stuff up. Those sites also have real unbiased articles on them but as they also make stuff up, you can't trust what they say without some serious fact checking.

a reply to: Flavian


Making stuff up is pretty much what western media is all about. Making stuff up and repeatingendless lies is the modus operandi of western media. The Guardian just demonstrated that recently with its nonsense about Manafort visiting Assange.

originally posted by: Salander
I speculate that 2 aircraft climbed to intercept the airliner, one fired AAM which hit one of the engines, I think left engine from the poor quality video showed by BBC. The other fighter got some real live target practice with the cannon, and clobbered the cockpit.

Talking about making things up. This fantasy about MH-17 being shot down as you are describing is exactly that. Made up. There is no evidence that this happened - that a missile hit an engine and (concurrently) the front of the airliner was peppered with cannon-shot. All evidence points to a single missile with a fragmentation warhead that blew up in front of the cockpit.

a reply to: Flavian

muh russia.
BeforeItsNews. naa. not unless its been substantiated by somewhere else.
i have no love for scorcha faal.

a reply to: Salander

it seems likely. theres a selection of pictures on one of the many voltairenet articles
the nato narrative has too many discrepancies
- discrepancy between the characteristics of the warhead elements of 9H314M with the ones described in the report
- discrepancy between the holes in the fuselage with the holes that would have been made by an explosion of the warhead elements of 9H314M
- discrepancy of at least one of the rocket fragments (3rd stage) found at the scene with the fragments that result in the explosion of the warhead part of series 9M38
- discrepancy between the remote radio-detonation algorithm of 9M38 "Buk" with the conditions of the airlines dtrike
- discrepancy between the situation of the rocket in the 3D space as presented in the report, with the actual strike field observed on the fuselage fragments.
- discrepancy between the conclusion of the zone of the launch of the guided rocket that struck the airliner with the technical characteristics and the working principals of 9M38.