Nudity

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Arizonaguy

But God didn't invent clothes. Even from a biblical point of view he made Adam and Eve Naked and they stayed that way until they sinned and they are the ones who covered themselves.

From a Secular point of view. No God. We're born naked. Therefore we invented clothes.

Take your pick.

What blows my mind is that they were fine being naked until they ate from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". That is when they noticed that they were naked. When God saw them covering themselves he became wroth and said "what have you done". He too, knew that they were naked and it was wrong (at least how they would respond once they knew) but never told them.

a reply to: geezlouise

That is where it starts getting to a more serious level too. Being ashamed of ourselves.

Because it's not just that it's sanitary, or safe, or polite to be clothed in public that we make sure and put something on. For most people the fact is that even in a totally safe and accepting setting where their nudity would be totally accepted and without anyone acting negatively about it, many people would still never do it because of their own self shame of who they are.

I think that is sad and is a strong force behind people fearing and shaming the nude form. It creates a resentment toward others as well and a self loathing which is made overwhelming. Many people have been convinced that their own body is too horrible to be seen in a natural state. But is that even possible when you think about it??? We're all just people and we're all somewhat different. Some more than others. Some more beautiful by common standards than others. But we're all built in a human form. We all have the same basic parts and features. We should be able to accept each other and ourselves without being afraid of how we are made.

In Germany in the summer, many people will get nekkid in the public parks and sunbathe. No problems with guys getting over excited or ogling. Also, there is a very different attitude to nudity in the Scandanavian countries as well, with the saunas they frequent. Also many of the beaches in Europe are very relaxed, and it is common to see topless women on regular beaches.

However society dictates that there is a time and a place for everything, and you do not just see people walking around the shops naked, unless it is in a nudist colony.

So not all places have the same attitudes towards nudity.

a reply to: 200Plus

Yeah. Obviously there are many interpretations that can be taken from that other than trying to make sense out of it literally.

Usually it's something of a Loss of Innocence idea. Again implying that sex or sexuality is wrong and should be made secret or hidden because it is a bad thing.

I think that is a horrible message and one of fear. I don't see why it can't be seen as something special, or perhaps private or important enough to share carefully with another without the negative aspect getting in the way. Not all cultures see it like that. That doesn't mean it's a 24/7 orgy free for all or anything. But they don't view sexual pleasure or intimacy with another person as something wrong that needs to be shamed. It can be private without being hidden. It can be something positive and enjoyed instead of being shamed away.

Religious Fears and trying to control nature in artificial ways has certainly caused us some problems that we're still figuring out I think.

a reply to: mOjOm

I've been thinking about matters along the same lines.

And it seems to me that the bigger people become to themselves(like the more important they think they are), the more snobbish, rigid, and uptight they become. This is important because on the other hand, the people who are able to grasp how very small we are, how very insignificant our one life is in the grand scheme of things, seem to be the freest. And they also tend to make the most sense to me and become the more powerful influencers in my life personally. We only have this one life to live and it is short, and it means very little in the grand scheme of things, and the smaller I personally feel... the grander life becomes and it all fills me with wonder and then people try to trample on my wonder and that's sad, too.

I think I just mean to say... in the face of all the nude bodies that have ever existed and will ever exist in the future? Mine is just another body. Yours is just another body. We should get to enjoy our bodies while we have them. So yeah, I get it and I dig your ATS presence.

Thank you for being here and writing to me personally.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Arizonaguy

But God didn't invent clothes. Even from a biblical point of view he made Adam and Eve Naked and they stayed that way until they sinned and they are the ones who covered themselves.

From a Secular point of view. No God. We're born naked. Therefore we invented clothes.

Take your pick.

guess what? my version of God invented clothes, and boats

a reply to: Phage

There should be laws protecting children and these laws would already be included from the empathy laws need for group/societal survival. I'm not saying that people should be allowed to do anything in society, I'm saying that any laws created that are not based on empathy (protection of women, children, individual rights) are an unnecessary restriction of freedom.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Thetan

Praise Jesus!


me too.

Nah, nah - it should be Hail Xenu, considering he's a scientologist and all.

a reply to: geezlouise

Well, thank you too.

Hopefully we can talk some more in the future.

a reply to: mOjOm

We don't agree on much. But this is certainly accurate.

a reply to: Phage

Well no, it is not. All I was doing, is suggesting that there might be some reasons to keep ones clothes on these days, that are not strictly to do with a holdover from religious dominance of societal affairs, certainly in the west at any rate.

Some people should not be allowed to be naked, even in the privacy of their own homes.

I make a majority of my income off of merchandise sales. T-shirts being the majority of those sales. If nobody wore clothes I'd be out of a job. Digital media has already killed a huge part of any music based income, and now you want to take away more? Not to mention my live show audience would all but disappear after seeing me on stage with my hog flopping around. I'm kidding of course lol. Well mostly.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Some people should not be allowed to be naked, even in the privacy of their own homes.

That I can agree with. Especially the Scientology lot. They shouldn't be allowed to be naked and/or procreate.

Thing is, I wouldn't want to be out and about in British weather in anything other than full snow gear.

What if someone clocks your 'meat-and-two-veg' and it's looking like an ice gem thanks to the minus conditions, all kinds of awkwardness would ensue, especially come summer and it's the same size

But in all seriousness nakedness is fine - the only people who have a problem with it are the people who push their insecurities onto others. Babies and kids run around naked all the time around here and no one bats an eye. I guess it depends on what evil some people have seen, some people see a pedophile around every corner. Others see judgmental people in every window.

If you want to be naked, go for it. When they arrest you, just don't say anything, turn up to court naked too. That'll show 'em.

a reply to: Thetan

Hello Thetan. You know I said that to myself and it almost sounded like Satan for some reason. And I even remember that there are a group of people known as Scientologists that believe in thetans.

I don't know if that is here or there.

But what I can tell you is that human morality tells us that we are naked and should cover ourself. It is instinct. Not like animals. We are humans. Innocent humans, namely newborn babies and infants don't understand they are naked. But when you get a certain age you become aware of nakedness and you want to cover yourself.

This is what happened when Adam and Eve rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden. A part of the consequence of eating from the tree of knowledge they were forbidden to eat from.

Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden. 9 And Jehovah God kept calling to the man and saying to him: “Where are you?” 10 Finally he said: “I heard your voice in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself.” 11 At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate.” 13 Jehovah God then said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” The woman replied: “The serpent deceived me, so I ate.” Genesis 3

a reply to: Bluesma

I live in Africa, your move.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Bluesma

I live in Africa, your move.

Then it would beneficial for you to travel a bit and see other ways people live and other cultures.

I lived half my life in the USA, and was subject to a lot of these false ideas- that men would get dangerously excited if around naked people, unable to control themselves and such nonsense.

The other half of my life has been in Europe, where nudity is accepted easily in many contexts, and was surprised to find those ideas are wrong. There is a lot we grow up being programmed with that we take as universal truths, but that are not.

That idea only applies within a peoples who have a taboo upon sex and nudity- it is that taboo which creates and sustains the potential "uncontrollable" nature.

Okay ladies and gentleman, I think it's come to that point where I can summarize my own opinion regarding public nudity.
1.Never be ashamed of your body or sex (unless it's illegal or just a bad idea.)
2.The vast majority of the world does not share the OP's opinion regarding nudity in public and would abuse it or would be made uncomfortable by other people's nude bodies... Grandma, I'm looking at you.
3. The world is not a safe place, whether it be shards of hot metal flying about or the local town rapist, clothing protects.
4. I find the female body beautiful (coz I'm a man) but a penis isn't exactly ascetically pleasing.
5. Sanitation dammit
6. People are messed up, give them the pinky and they'll be feeling up your elbow. What I mean by this is, people are f**k rabbits, we love to indulge and being nude will only make it easier. I don't want my kids one day to see people shagging in the street.

It's fine if your standing flacid and sober on my street corner, I won't bother you, but if people are allowed to be nude in public the rules will be bent as they always have been. The reason people aren't allowed to be naked in public is because we have proved that we can't handle that responsibility. Humans are horny scumbags, and so it shall stay

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Bluesma

I live in Africa, your move.

Ignore that fool. I have traveled many places in the world. and know what it called false knowledge is not so.

It is probably a pervert hoping to open more people up to its perversions. Of course there are places where perverts can travel freely to indulge in their perversions. But this is NOT common or normal in any society. Even if it tries to paint it as so.