Times LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo

originally posted by: LaBTop
It's us 9/11 DOUBTERS, who understand what the real 9/11 Conspiracy is.

Well, you are the ones that make up the conspiracy stories about 9/11, so I hope you understand what you say.

No one else does!

And who's behind it, that's glaringly obviously.

Who is behind the conspiracy stories people make up? Those who sell books and dvd's about 9/11, those like Richard Gage who earn a nice sum out of telling stories about 9/11 etc.

For me, it's as clear as glass what the conspiracy was.

perhaps you could tell us then, as truthers seem to be all over the place, with stories such as:
silent explosives,
thermite disguised as paint,
mini nuclear weapons,
holographic planes,
cruise missiles,
beam weapons from space,
planes firing rockets at the WTC,
the pod planes
etc.

All these have been pushed by people here!

a reply to: hellobruce

perhaps you could tell us then, as truthers seem to be all over the place, with stories such as:
silent explosives,
thermite disguised as paint,
mini nuclear weapons,
holographic planes,
cruise missiles,
beam weapons from space,
planes firing rockets at the WTC,
the pod planes
etc.

All these have been pushed by people here!

Yes, many have, however all of them where debunked many years ago on ATS. The fact is no one supports any of that disinformation that you continue to use to silent anyone asking questions that doesn't support the OS narratives.

The fact is, it is a form of ridiculing to mock the messenger.

I thought we all moved past this kind of Juvenal behavior?

Furthermore what does your comment have to do with the OP? Nothing.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: hellobruce

perhaps you could tell us then, as truthers seem to be all over the place, with stories such as:
silent explosives,
thermite disguised as paint,
mini nuclear weapons,
holographic planes,
cruise missiles,
beam weapons from space,
planes firing rockets at the WTC,
the pod planes
etc.

All these have been pushed by people here!

Yes, many have, however all of them where debunked many years ago on ATS. The fact is no one supports any of that disinformation

Thank you for agreeing no thermite or explosives were used. However, some people are still posting that crap as facts here!

Truther Dr Wood stated seismic activity indicates no explosives used at the WTC? Strange the truther movement went from explosives / thermite to energy weapons due to no physical evidence. Fire produces heat energy. Truthers are slowly getting caught up to heat energy from fire brought down the buildings at the WTC. Best lies are those that stick close to the truth.

Repeated post

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: LaBTop
A reply to: MrBig2430

Yes. Link please to HIS words, not yours.!
.

So you didn't know this? What kind of research do you do? Half arsed won't cut it.

Heck he even has corrected David Chandler on this issue. Chandler's original statements were that ALL columns must be cut over 8 stories in order to achieve ffa. Tony corrected him on this and has publicly said so.

Catch up

So? Have you had enough time to correct your errors? Do you need more time ?

Or would you like me to provide links now, and show everyone just what poor research you have presented.

You know about the 9/11 free forum, right?

Start there...

Now, where's your links ?

These are 2 seismograms of a gas pipeline explosion near Carlsbad in New Mexico US, the pipeline was buried a few meters underground in packed soil, and a few campers, camping above it were all killed in the 3 explosions that took place within a 40 seconds time-window.
The first one was much smaller than the 2 subsequent ones following the smallest explosion.

TinyURL.com
Making over a billion long URLs usable! Serving billions of redirects per month.
preview.tinyurl.com...

I'll try to let you see how they compacted that long link by Web Archive.org into a tiny link, that still brings you back in time to Prof. Wallace his website in 2001 :

Preview of TinyURL.com/3boevw
This TinyURL redirects to:
h ttp://web.archive.org/web/20010108003900/h ttp://www.geo.arizona.edu/geophysics/faculty/wallace/CARLSBAD/index.html

The three waveforms above show ground motion at three of the permanent Carlsbad stations (in red). They are arranged according to distance from the explosion site, with the closest station appearing first. The x axis shows time in seconds, and the y axis is proportional to ground movement. The data are consistent with three separate explosions occurring within a time span of approximately 40 seconds, the first being much smaller than the subsequent two.

Timescale in seconds, 20 secs per every 100 secs, over 300 secs.

To compare, here's a comparable form of seismogram from 9/11, timescale in minutes, 1 minute per every 10 minutes, over 4 x 30 minutes (120 minutes; 7200 secs), or 4 x 1800 secs (7200 secs) :

Looks eerily the same, ain't it.? Apart from the 4 x 30 minutes timescale and the more sensitive amplitude measurements of 0 to 100 nm/sec with a max of + or - 500 nm/s and the 0.5 to 5.0 Hz filtered outcome.

Well, who's gonna win the price for in-depth research, and comes up with a comparable seismogram of a NATURAL collapse of a hi-rise steel building.? So we can see that those sudden spikes are absent.?
Forget it, we already have the 2.25 seconds of free fall acceleration for the onset of the global collapse of WTC-7.
Which long lasting FFA you will never ever find in any NATURALLY occurring steel hi-rise collapse.
A pity that we don't have any seismograms from the Windsor Building fire in Madrid.
OR, does its University have a well equipped geophysics Department.? That for sure monitored that one full night and one full morning raging fire and partial collapse of its top steel part.
Well, do yourself a favor and get the videos from that partial collapse, and use the same simple FFA measurement technique that David Chandler used. He gave you the link to the online program he used.
You'll see what really happens in a NATURAL partial collapse of a steel high rise. Which you already saw with your own eyes of course, a CHAOTIC, relatively slow, partitioned collapse. Far from any FFA.
Another chance for eternal fame for a true American.

Phone that Spanish Uni, ask for the seismograms from the Windsor Tower partial collapse....they will immediately know what you mean...

This seems to me, quite the important historical ATS page :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thread title : NIST WTC7 status report (page 6, you really should read that page, then that whole 8 pages long thread).

Especially this post should have been a sudden revelation to the bulk of the readers, that there was something fundamentally wrong with the WTC-7 conclusions by NIST, then and still now, when compared to the LDEO conclusions.
These are two US State-sponsored Institutions, who's data mutually exclude each other, and not by tiny differences, no, those are enormous NINE SECONDS discrepancies, that can not be explained away, by either one of them. So which of these always-correct institutes was wrong? :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

LaBTop : For me, the biggest question still is:
How and why did FEMA come to their conclusion that 20:33 was the initiation of WTC 7's collapse ?
I saw nothing happen in form of visual effects BEFORE the famous penthouse denting.

LaBTop : I see only one sane conclusion : someone high up forced or planted the idea in LDEO 's investigating minds, that this 20:33 seconds point was the start of all WTC 7 collapse events, because that someone had realized that that was the ONLY convenient way to mask what really happened, and that 33 + 17 is 40 (Edit :sorry, it's 50), which is the 10s point on that seismic graph, which so conveniently preceded all following seismic signals above the standard background noise levels.
Any later start of events time stamps would raise a LOT of eyebrows.
So, who came up with that 33 figure ! AND THE REASON for it, to use it !
Were there rumbling sounds at 20:33 ?
Or was it solely based on seismic interpretations? Which ones?

Realize that LDEO was the Institute that swiftly proposed in the days after 9/11, that 17:20:33 was the INITIATION moment in time of all further seismic events in the WTC-7 collapse events.
It is in fact the only exact place in time that conveniently explains the whole WTC-7 seismogram, when compared to all the, in real time video taped events at the WTC grounds.

This is LDEO's explanation within a few days after 9/11/2001 :



Now observe in my below July 2015 explanation diagram, my green REAL TIME CIANCA PHOTO (17:20:37) position, it's just 9 seconds earlier than 17:20:46, the Cianca photo time stamp printed on it by NIST.





Note now also my green text printed at :
17:20:33 LDEO STATED COLLAPSE BEGINS IN NYC.
LDEO published that text in the days shortly after 9/11.
Which is exactly the time of that deep booming sound we hear in the FOIA freed video of the WTC-7 collapse with its additional 1.5 seconds before we see the E-penthouse roof start to collapse, the one posted at YouTube by Ewing Smith.
And in the Ashley Banfield video we hear the 7 explosions, and see them in the following audio-gram. These explosions happened exactly in the 8.3 seconds that it took from the E-penthouse roof denting, to the sudden onset of the free falling first 2.5 secs of the global collapse of the whole steel skyscraper that WTC-7 was.

NOW SUDDENLY, after moving the Cianca photo its NIST printed time stamp 9 seconds earlier in real Manhattan time, EVERY videotaped and photographed event FITS as a glove in that LDEO recorded WTC-7 COLLAPSE SEISMOGRAM.

You however never heard anymore about that 33 seconds past 17:20 WTC-7 COLLAPSE INITIATION EVENT as advertised by LDEO one week after 9/11, nor after FEMA took it over in their Report.
NIST came up in 2005 with the clearly wrong time stamp for the Cianca photo of 17:20:46, differing an enormous amount of NINE SECONDS with the original collapse initiation event as published by LDEO and FEMA in their earliest reports.

That means that either ALL other NIST photo and video time stamps are thus also 9 seconds TOO LATE time stamped.
Or, for some mysterious reason, NIST insisted during 5 years of their WTC-7 research passing and in their FINAL WTC-7 Report, that the east penthouse denting started 9 seconds later than in reality was the case, as the LDEO seismogram clearly shows us.

Go contemplate about that for a lot of moments, and see what pattern now comes up, especially for the -eventual- 9 seconds earlier in time, plane impacts and 3 tower collapses.

It seems more logical, that NIST can't bring themselves to admit that their real time methods are bogus.
Or they know, their whole real-time reasoning/calculations fall apart, when the second plane impact time was also 9 seconds earlier, and what we see in the LDEO plane impact seismogram are then explosions, and not a plane impact.

It means thus that the whole Cianca digital photo file they used in their FINAL WTC-7 Report as their example case for how they calculated all photographed events for all cameras back to their real time events, is WRONG, as these photo times were all compared to the exact time, they say, the North Tower plane impacted in it (based on radar and seismic sources).
THUS, it must mean that all these radar and seismic times are all bogus too.....Start all over again, or find a good reason why my reasoning is wrong.
I'm all EARS....

NIST thus still has an enormous problem at hand, which they can't master, so they choose to wrap it in silence, aided by all main networks and newspapers. And 2 subsequent US Administrations, one Republican, one Democratic, so there are no political innocents on that playing field.





Compare it to what NIST years later calculated, based on their video collection of WTC-7 events :

This is the calculation made by David Chandler, who forced NIST to eat their WTC-7 collapse explanation in its draft from their Final WTC-7 Report, which was in fact screwed together by ARA, the firm that got all the fat Defense contracts and got the task to at last help NIST out with their internal quarrels regarding the inconsistencies in their own findings.
Their own honest researchers couldn't bring themselves to dishonestly fix the discrepancies which were so glaringly exposed by my seismic times comparison with their own times linked to the video taped events in their possession.
ARA had no problem at all with that, and came up within weeks with that joke about the cause of the collapse : The single column 79 collapse by "thermal expansion".
Well, that ARA joke can't explain the IMMEDIATELY following 2.3 seconds of free fall acceleration, as found by David Chandler :



The preceding post on that thread's page 6 touches on another scary revelation. LDEO has not published all the seismic charts it has in its possession, see that East-West component seismogram that prof. Wallace once had up on his personal website, which site was erased from the Internet AND the Way Back website, which is even scarier, since it indicates the far reaching tentacles from the 9/11 Damage Control teams that were in place already from the early morning hours of 9/11/2001, many hours before the first plane hit the North Tower in the WTC complex. These teams were also put in place weeks before, in the editing rooms of the main Networks as embedded military editors, as you can find when you know how to properly use the common Internet Search engines. (Or the ATS Search function).


Seismic energy from the first collision between the American Airlines Jet and the WTC recorded on the PAL east-west component. The P/S wave arrivals are tiny, but the surface waves, particular the Love wave, is strong. Images by Wallace et al.

The yellow band text : "Arrival of a love Wave (Shear Motion)"
Compare Wallace his diagram with the published LDEO diagram of the first plane impact in the WTC North Tower :

This is my original thread post about Professor Raymond Brown, senior geophysicist at the University of Oklahoma, who found out that explosives are much more efficient at exciting the ground motion than is the subsequent collapse of the demolished building.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

A few posts back I hinted at Ali Mohammed, these are my original three posts on two FBI informants who both distrusted their FBI handlers, who were monitoring the 1993 Arabic patsies, who then did the WTC bombing that year, aided by real explosives given to them by the FBI.
www.abovetopsecret.com... : This regards the FBI informant Emad Salem, who asked his FBI handlers to substitute harmless powders for the explosives the 1993 bombers had asked him for.
www.abovetopsecret.com... : This regards the triple agent for Al-Qaida, the CIA and FBI (as informer) Ali Mohammed, the former Egyptian Army Major, from the same army unit that murdered Anwar Sadat. He helped train a number of jihadist, like El Sayyid Nosair and Mahmud Abouhalima, who assisted Ramzi Yousef in his 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. Some FBI agents had them in handcuffs in 1990, they later admitted : "We were told to release them".
www.abovetopsecret.com... : more on Ali Mohammed.

At 1:31:00 of the full 2:04:53 hrs in this (1,457,642 views) new, full film by Press For Truth, titled ""9/11: Decade of Deception"", the reader can see Emad Salem his picture, and hear him explain that they were constructing the bomb and that the FBI deliberately choose not to shut down the plot, his handler insisted to let them go on.
Click this link to start that video at the 1:31:05 moment :
youtu.be...



Emad Salem : post by GoodOlDave :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

My favorite documentaries are not the MSM Popular Science
Nat Geo OS stories.

But the real meat and potatoes docs made
by ordinary citizens point by point,
debunking each hollow "truther" argument .

Oh wait ... Those don't exist...
I must have dreamt that.

A reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Yep. That amazes me too, to no end.

First, a reminder :

Tossing in one-liner cheap shots,
or drive-by insults.

Their sole intention is to
disturb Constructive Discussion.

Used by the ones without solid counter arguments,
to mask their inability to discredit the facts.

On the facts of thread derailing techniques, used in government opposing threads, posted in online forums :

It's one thing to logically debunk a thread topic, but it's another to step into a thread for the sole purpose of just tossing in a one-liner cheap shot.
Drive-by insults do not make for constructive discussions.
I just do not understand how someone that works for the site, had a hand in creating this site, would ever allow those members to continue to do what they do.
It needs a better class of "member".

By the way, that's a hitting-home definition for most of the longtime posting forum members on the Net, this priceless avatar-remark :
Introverts Unite ... Seperately.

TheANSWER.
TheANSWER2.
TheANSWER3.

READ that thread's O.P. : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Some “conspiracy theories” previously dismissed as insane and fringe have turned out to be entirely true. Examples :
The CIA really did secretly administer L-S-D in “mind control” experiments in the 1950ties.
The DOD really did plot the commission of terrorist acts inside the U.S. with the intent to blame Castro : Operation Northwoods and Operation Mongoose 1962.
The Nixon White House really did bug the DNC headquarters 1972.
Given that history, how could it possibly be justified for the U.S. Government to institute covert programs designed to undermine anti-government “conspiracy theories,” discredit government critics, and increase faith and trust in government pronouncements?

REFERENCES :
Government Trolls Are Using "Psychology-Based Influence Techniques" On YouTube, Facebook And Twitter (and on ATS)-1
Gover nment Trolls Are Using "Psychology-Based Influence Techniques" On YouTube, Facebook And Twitter (and on ATS)-2
Unit has engaged in “dirty tricks” like deploying sexual “honey traps” designed to discredit targets, launching denial-of-service attacks to shut down Internet chat rooms, pushing veiled propaganda onto social networks and generally warping discourse online.
Controversial GCHQ-unit promotes domestic law enforcement propaganda in the UK.
The Canadian government has assumed the role of secret online police.
www.youtube.com... : A video news report about what is happening up in Canada.
www.washingtonsblog.com...
US government editing wikipedia to smear independent media personalities.
72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered ‘Potential Terrorists’ In Official Government Documents.

Internet forums infiltration efforts. See the 4 updates at the bottom of this article. Update 3 has the chilling government options in it.
Paper by Cass Sunstein, one of Barack Obama’s closest confidants, he wanted the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups. And they listened, and followed through.
Indeed, there is a very strong case to make that what Sunstein's advocating (and he wants government agents to covertly mold political discussions “anonymously or even with false identities.”) is itself illegal under long-standing statutes prohibiting government ”propaganda” within the U.S., aimed at American citizens.

By the way, they openly advertised those internet propaganda contracts on the fed contracting site fbo.gov.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.computerworld.com...
www.forbes.com...
www.wired.com...
www.idiottax.net... : The Abbott government has created a hub of 37 communication and social media specialists to monitor social media and offer strategic communications advice costing taxpayers almost $4.3 million a year. WOW.!

REMEMBER these comments - for ever :

They only need to manipulate 51%.
Thus they target the First Deviation thinkers on the Bell Curve.
If you are Second Deviation or more advanced then you will be in the minority, guaranteed.
Remember folks. One half of the people out there have Double Digit IQs. That is by definition.

It is far too easy.

All out psychological war is going on on the net. If you missed it, your are blind.
It's official propaganda made up of fake patriotism redirecting emotions away from the core of the problem.

Yesterday, we had a simple DDOS attack, but from a huge bulk of infected boxes.
TODAY, we had a sophisticated attack aimed on this board......More complicated than a simple DDOS attack.
If I try to get to my most recent posts, by ATS Search, I get ONLY a bunch of very old posts mostly not related to mine at all (terms : LaBTop Greenquest , which words I yesterday used in my posts about Joe Webber. Try it out, I want to know if it is a direct attack on my posts.
Or if Google has me blacklisted. ATS uses their search engine for the ATS site specific Search engine.

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

But you have 911 conspiracies theorists like Dr Wood that "debunk" other theories like controlled demolition. Which one do you agree on? Explosives. Thermite. Nuke Bombs. Missiles. Lasers. Energy Waves. Holograms. All just for the WTC. How are the others wrong?

When you have READ these 4 threads by me, you know nearly just as much as I about 9/11 and its causes, and have hundreds of links at hand, leading to others their savvy work on 9/11.
You can simply copy and paste these next lines in any counter-post to opponents, and ask them to try to counter the main arguments :

911myths.com : WHY FAKING >73° BANK-ANGLES for a NoC FLYING PLANE.?
www.abovetopsecret.com... Start f.ex. with page 34, this post :
www.abovetopsecret.com... and then the next most important post, then you have already a few pieces of hard evidence for foul 9/11 play to discuss.

WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.
www.abovetopsecret.com... Start f.ex. with page 118.

Times LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo.
www.abovetopsecret.com... It's 16 pages now, end of June 2016. It's about all the LDEO seismic WTC-7 evidence, that contradicts for 9 long seconds with all the NIST timing techniques for all their photos and videos .

FDNY Chiefs KNEW WTC 2, 1 and 7 would FAIL.
www.abovetopsecret.com... Start f.ex. at that post. Then read the 3 pages.

There are another 5 thread and post links in my Signature line.

originally posted by: LaBTop
Now, where's your links ?

www.internationalskeptics.com...

"David Chandler now knows and accepts that only the core columns needed to be removed in WTC 7 to cause its collapse and that it could cause a free fall acceleration shortly after starting to drop. I explained it to him in the last year.

A lot of people initially assumed it would require all columns to be removed to get free fall. It is a nuanced situation where 8 stories of the core are removed and 8 stories of the exterior are then unsupported and being pulled inward at the same time.

The roof dropped about a half meter (20 inches) across the full length and width and then went into free fall.

To get a 20 inch drop pulling in 8 stories the pull in would have been about 110 inches or a little over 9 feet.

The columns would have provided a little resistance at first but once the pull-in became significant the p-delta load would get very large and completely overcome any resistance of the now slender columns. "


Did you get that?

He states that only the core columns need to be "removed". The ext columns don't.

Your research has failed. Therefore, your beliefs are wrong.

a reply to: MrBig2430

Did you get that?

He states that only the core columns need to be "removed". The ext columns don't.

Your research has failed. Therefore, your beliefs are wrong.

I disagree.

All you are giving is an "opinion" based on little evidence.

What we all witness from the News videos, is all the columns failing at the same time. One column could not break all the entire columns through out the whole building simultaneously, that's just impossible.

I do not see anywhere, where you brought any sources or even tried to debunk LaBTop science. Nothing.

Opinions are just that "opinions".

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: MrBig2430

Did you get that?

He states that only the core columns need to be "removed". The ext columns don't.

Your research has failed. Therefore, your beliefs are wrong.

I disagree.

All you are giving is an "opinion" based on little evidence.

What we all witness from the News videos, is all the columns failing at the same time. One column could not break all the entire columns through out the whole building simultaneously, that's just impossible.

I do not see anywhere, where you brought any sources or even tried to debunk LaBTop science. Nothing.

Opinions are just that "opinions".

You're missing the point.

Tony says that the core columns were explosively cd'ed, and that the ext columns weren't. And that the 8 story free fall was the result of slender column buckling, no cd required for that.

The only way that he departs from what conspiracy believers would cal the "OS" is how the core columns failed.

We say that the free fall period is no big deal and easily explainable without invoking explosives.

So does he.

But conspiracy believers think that it's important. They claim this due to their unknowing ignorance.