Times LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo

You keep ranting about what you think is true and nothing has happened to you?

Well, since when is that an argument for Trusters.?
As you should know from many online stories, there are a good amount of mysterious deaths "by self inflicted suicide" connected to the 9/11 subjects.
Just throw those three words into the YouTube Search line...or Google them.

Ahhh, now I get it...
You ask for photographic evidence of my first, second and third degree burned upper body parts.? From a fire bombing attempt. REALLY.?
Or the 4 cm long scar from a knife attack in my left upper thigh.? REALLY.?
Are you a tad bit in need of a serious reality check, by accident.?

Have you any idea what's at stake when a majority of the American citizens at last understand what really happened on 9/11.?
Here in Europe, we already reached that point, lucky for "them", there's an Ocean in between.

a reply to: LaBTop

Thanks for the source.

www.journalof911studies.com...

I have a better understanding now how Dr. Andre Rousseau was able to separate the different seismic waves and subterranean or a subaerial explosion from the seismic charts.

I will be the first to admit this kind of science is new to me, and I have to believe that 99 percent of the world population including several debunkers on here have no understanding of this kind of science.

This also explains to me why no one on ATS who is really interested in your work of proven the NIST fraudulent Report that cannot stand up to real science. has not bothered to ask you any questions concerning the seismic data, and video time stamping in order to get a better understanding or perhaps I missed the questions somewhere.

It took me some time to digest your report and your analysis and compared it with Dr. Andre Rousseau Report and his findings.

I do agree both of you are correct in your analysis, and it does prove NIST manipulated the timing of the seismic data to the video time stamping.

I believe at this point, that there is enough evidence now that the NIST Report is a fallacy, written to fool our intelligent.

I believe there is enough scientific analysis done by enough outside experts to take NIST to court. The problem is what Law firm has the guts to do it. Perhaps this is what A&E is working on with the new investigation being done on WTC 7.

I commend you on your hard work and wonderful presentations of your findings, that I believe cannot be debunked. The more I looked into all this one does not need to be an expert to understand these new findings.

All I can say is GREAT WORK!

Informer1958, at last another reader/poster who admits in writing that, now at last, he completely understands what the quintessence is of this whole thread's opening posts. You give me hope again that the 9/11 insight-progression is still working its way up.
It means to me, that many of you indeed were waiting for even more detailed explanations.
For me, this is every time again a revelation, that it takes so long for further obvious intelligent members, to at last grasp the heart of the NIST-LDEO time-stamping matter.

Because I immediately noticed the non-fitting correlation of the NIST and LDEO time-stamps, both measured to the same atomic clock at NIST.
When I saw NIST publicize in 2005, their Cianca photo in one of their first draft reports of the WTC-7 investigation, and I compared their photo time stamp with the times on the LDEO seismogram of the WTC-7 collapse, it made me conclude undoubtedly, that the Cianca photo, did not fit both their explanations.
It was time-stamped by NIST in a lengthy, events on photos/videos times, comparison process, for which they used exactly Cianca's camera photo series as an example in that draft.

Don't you forget to research my latest new discovery on an officially paid-for Defense Media Network website, of the Flight 77 ""banked sharp"" remarks of all those firefighters in their FD Engine 101 truck from the Arlington County Fire Department, driving up the northbound part of I-395 northwards, on the part of I-395 that's runs adjacent and west of the Army Navy Country Club grounds. And that part of I-395 offers a front seat view from there, perpendicular on the downwards flight path from Flight 77.
Those firefighters all saw Flight 77 make a sharp bank, just before it disappeared over the horizon, behind the ridge top beneath the Navy Annex Wing 8 building.
In such a "sharp bank" case, unmistakeably on its way to the north side of the CITGO gas station.
Because the Flight 77 recovered FDR shows no bank at all in the last 20 seconds of recorded data from its flight time.

A real NEW revelation again to support the North of CITGO flight path, that nullifies all the officially shown SoC flightpath indicators (5 cut poles, damage path inside Wedge 1 and 2 from entry hole to ""exit"" hole)
I never saw anyone address these guys their Flight 77 "sharp bank" remark.
The 9/11-damage controllers will have jumped on these poor guys by now, sadly enough. Hopefully one of them is at least a real American, and keeps telling the truth they already expressed to their interviewer from that also online magazine :

The Pentagon's Sept. 11 First Responder stories (page 1) :
www.defensemedianetwork.com...

And don't forget to research also this recent new find by me :

- - heard his colleague, Trooper Myrlin Wimbish, shouting excitedly over the radio that a plane had just crashed into the Pentagon. Wimbish had been refueling his patrol car within view of the Pentagon when Flight 77 hurtled overhead, so close that his car rocked in the turbulence of the plane’s wake. Wimbish, like many other witnesses, later observed that the plane was accelerating as it struck the building.

Sergeant Lagasse under the Northern Canopy pointing Northwards at where he saw the plane near the CITGO gas station.

Was Trooper Wimbish at the same CITGO gas station as Sergeant Lagasse? He says it was IN VIEW of the Pentagon, so it MUST be the CITGO.
Thus, we have now found a third witness aside from Sergeant Brooks, who perhaps can corroborate Pentagon Police Sergeant William Lagasse's statements that he saw the plane fly NORTH of the CITGO.
Can anybody get in touch with Mr Wimbish?
Try it at least, he will be under Pentagon gag orders by now, but at least TRY.!

Of course this can be another trick in the book of the 9/11 False Flag damage controllers.
Doubters then interview these guys, and Wimbish says he's pertinently sure that he saw that plane South of the CITGO.
And then all the firefighters of Arlington FD Engine 101 say on new videos that they saw it bank sharply at the end of the circling down. (where it did not disappear under the horizon, that can only happen behind the Navy Annex Wing 8)
Let's wait and see.

Another recent find by me in a superb video (42:09 min) :

The Men In Building 7 (WTC Documentary)
www.youtube.com...


It gets REALLY interesting after the 24:30 position in this video.

Special Customs agent Joe Webber was at a staff meeting in WTC6, at 8:45 a.m., when the first plane hit the North Tower. Webber then ordered everybody to re-assemble in 7 World Tower (WTC-7), in the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) at the specially reinforced 23rd floor. By the time they reached WTC-7, there was panic and debris raining down on them all over the block. The doors to the command post on the 23rd floor WERE LOCKED.

Just as Barry Jennings always said. Who arrived around 9 o'clock in WTC7, as he always said in his last Loose Change interviews.
WTC-6 was a low building on the other side of Vesey Street, do you think it cost a few trained men together with Special Customs agent Joe Webber, all in a damn hurry, 45 long minutes to reach the WTC7's 23rd floor by express elevator, in that building on the other side of the street? I don't.
They ran down a few stairs, ran over the Plaza bridge to the WTC7 lobby and took an express elevator. Let's say it took 15 minutes at most.
Thus, the OEM office was abandoned totally, around 9 o'clock (and 9:05 at most).

And that's crazy early, and not even anywhere near the times for the WTC-7 evacuation order, which were given by FEMA, the 9/11Commission and NIST in their reports.
Reports riddled with suspicious inconsistencies.

a reply to: LaBTop

do you think it cost a few trained men together with Special Customs agent Joe Webber, all in a damn hurry, 45 long minutes to reach the WTC7's 23rd floor by express elevator, in that building on the other side of the street? I don't.
They ran down a few stairs, ran over the Plaza bridge to the WTC7 lobby and took an express elevator. Let's say it took 15 minutes at most.

On a normal day I can agree with you that it should only take 15 minutes.
But when hundreds to thousands of people are trying to evacuate at the same time I can see it taking 3 times longer.

You are grasping for multiple minuscule points to build a conspiracy.
But the simple fact is the truth movement only has one or two people qualified to speak about aspects from that day.
The rest are nothing more than YouTubers trying to build a subscriber base.

a reply to: samkent


WTC 7 Egress

There were two main exit stairways in WTC 7. Stairway 1 was located on the west side, and Stairway 2 was located on the east side within the central core. Both exit stairways discharged directly to the exterior at ground level and were approximately 4 feet 10 inches wide. The stairways were built of fire-rated construction using gypsum wallboard. Subsequent to the 1993 bombing incident at the WTC, battery operated emergency lighting was provided in the stairways and photo-luminescent paint was placed on the edge of the stair treads to facilitate emergency egress. In addition to the battery-powered lighting, the stairs also had emergency system lighting powered by the generators.

Twenty-eight passenger elevators and three service elevators served the various levels of WTC 7. Occupants using the elevators would typically discharge at the third level and either exit through the Lobby to bridges bringing them over to the WTC Plaza, or proceed down the escalators to grade level.

There were only 2 stairways in the building. With width of 4 ft 10 (58 inches) were wide enough to hold 2 adults side by side

If trying to go against flow will take lot longer as people have to move out of way .......

samkent :

On a normal day I can agree with you that it should only take 15 minutes.
But when hundreds to thousands of people are trying to evacuate at the same time I can see it taking 3 times longer.

You are grasping for multiple minuscule points to build a conspiracy.
But the simple fact is the truth movement only has one or two people qualified to speak about aspects from that day.
The rest are nothing more than YouTubers trying to build a subscriber base.

firerescue :

There were only 2 stairways in the building. With width of 4 ft 10 (58 inches) were wide enough to hold 2 adults side by side.
If trying to go against flow will take lot longer as people have to move out of way .......

Complete illogical NONSENSE, this is why :

Realize first, we talk about the 08:45 to 09:05 a.m. period, with a for sure not fully occupied WTC-7.

Then, this 20 pages MIT Report :
web.mit.edu...

- - page 7 of 20 (113) :
2.1 System 1: Alternate Egress System
- - Even though egress times for the recent tragedy at the WTC were vastly reduced from the 1993 bombing, we can safely assume that this can be attributed, to some extent, to the increase in training that workers received after that attack. This heightened level of experience and training is not something that we can safely assume for all supertall buildings.
-snip-
2.1.1 Interior Egress Paths
Using various continuous interior volumes that are commonly found in all tall buildings, new and old, additional interior egress may be provided. Currently, fire rated stair shafts are the only path of egress in an overwhelming majority of tall buildings. This first proposal identifies the elevator shafts in tall buildings as additional egress pathways. These shafts are continuous volumes that currently sit idle during a fire. With the exception of the use of elevators by emergency rescue personnel, the elevators themselves are not operated during an emergency because of the risk to occupants.

Hess and Jennings used first an express elevator to go UP when they arrived at WTC-7, found the doors to OEM on the 23rd floor closed, returned DOWN by the same elevator (so these worked FINE), found someone who directed them to the big freight elevator, took that one UP and found their way in to the OEM offices.
So, all elevators were in FINE working order up till THEN.
There were 28 of them, plus the 4x bigger freight elevator, in OPERATING ORDER around 09:00 a.m. on 9/11/2001.

If anyone here thinks Hess and Jennings arrived substantially later, that means those elevators were even much longer operating...for UPWARDS going emergency personnel or rescuers on their way to their DESIGNATED place to go in case of any EMERGENCY.

Which means that the group led by Special Custom Agent Webber, could have easily reached the same 23rd floor in the same easy manner as Hess and Jennings did.
BECAUSE THEY WENT BOTH, UP.!

Your argument that they were hindered by fleeing personnel which were on their way down is hereby declared baseless, your own fire and/or emergency EGRESS RULES forbid occupants to use the elevators on their way DOWN. (see my bold sentences in the above report by MIT. )

SINCE both groups, Hess/Jennings and the Webber party were on their way UPWARDS, inside an ELEVATOR in WTC-7.
The four stairs inside WTC-6 that the Webber party perhaps had to use (I think they took the elevator, since they saw themselves as a rescue party), were passed in a few minutes at most, the Plaza to WTC-7 Lobby Bridge if running : 3 minutes.
The rest of the 15 minutes time STARTING at 08:45 a.m. was then used to get to the 23rd floor by Webber et al.
Thus, your argument of too much "against the flow fleeing occupants" is a very weak one, in fact not existing. One of the Plaza to Lobby bridges was a VERY WIDE ONE, more like a football field.

A classical case of "falling in your own sword" - argumentation.

PS : would you be so kind to follow forum rules, like I must do too, and add the links to your excerpts.?

a reply to: LaBTop

Realize first, we talk about the 08:45 to 09:05 a.m. period, with a for sure not fully occupied WTC-7.

Happen to know number of people who worked in WTC 7 for Salomon Brothers

They were there before 845

Salomon Brothers was full up by that time

In fact some of them were outside building smoking when first plane hit......

Realize also, that when Special Customs Agent Webber took the decision to IMMEDIATELY leave WTC-6 with his party, at 08:47 a.m. and ordered his party to go to the OEM offices on the 23rd floor of WTC-7, there was not yet a shimmer to see from the much later starting full evacuation of WTC-2 and WTC-1.
Every normal office worker was still in awe...or wondering, and certainly for the most part, not informed yet, at all, about what happened far above their offices. Most of them had no idea at all that a huge plane had hit their WTC1N Tower.

There was also no logical reason why WTC-7 should be evacuated ALREADY at 08:46:26, when the first plane hit the North Tower between its 94th and 98th floors.

The Webber party had in fact no obstacles on their way to the OEM, starting to ran at 08:47 a.m., there was no developing panic yet, such as is abundantly explained in my above posted MIT linked article, there is a substantial time lag between the initiation time of an emergency event and the first panic flee-reactions from the office workers in high risers found by these academic researchers from MIT (Massachusets Institute of Technology), a highly appraised Institute for its thorough technical research, ask MIT and thou shall know. :

web.mit.edu...

Page 6 of 12 (112) :
These stages suggest that the decision by each individual to evacuate is far from instantaneous.
The decision to leave the building is arrived at after having considered various pieces of information from as many sources as possible. In 1993, the amount of time between the initial blast and leaving the building ranged from a few minutes to 4.8 hours in Tower 1 and again from a few minutes to 3.8 hours in Tower 2, as recorded in the study [7].
The study also recorded mean times of 11.3 and 25.4 minutes and median times of 5 and 10 minutes respectively.
Clearly, the decision to evacuate was neither instantaneous nor unanimous.

I rest my case. For now.

ALL the still really interested old and newer 9/11-DOUBTING ATS-members should flock together (in this thread?) and dissect the WTC-7 case, just as I am doing now, and lay the planners-nerves wide open, for every John and Jane to see, so they start to understand what fools they were to not see through the heinous propaganda, and then fully grasp the devilish plot they all were following in the first years after 9/11, docile following what their Cruel Overlords passed on their TV-plates, then at last get red hot excited and ....... ?

PM each other, do something right now you have the ultimate chance, this time it's US the PEOPLE, against their bloody Moloch Machine.!

A reply to: firerescue

Again, no link to check, how can we check your words.?

I offered you links, all over the place, so you can check my words.
You however, most of the time, conveniently "forget" to do that. We want to check things, we are not believers, in the religious meaning of the word. We don't believe you, until we can thoroughly check your words.

Also realize that lots and lots of emergency officers, personnel and their cars, had no trouble at all in the first 15 minutes to reach the TWIN TOWERS areas.
There was no immense crowd flocking the stairwells YET, in those first 15 minutes, that panic started after 9:02:54, when the second plane hit WTC2S, and everyone understood that this was far more serious than an accidental hit by one airplane.

Let's compact the latest finds for a moment :

1. The Trooper Myrlin Wimbish remark that he was refueling his PATROL car in view of the Pentagon.
Only one possible candidate to my knowledge, the CITGO gas station.
Where the plane must have flown that low, that we might believe these remarks :

- - refueling his patrol car within view of the Pentagon when Flight 77 hurtled overhead, so close that his car rocked in the turbulence of the plane’s wake.

A just 50 to 90 feet North of CITGO flying plane .?

ANY real American willing to contact this officer.?
Note : real Americans choose their RIGHTS above all other political humbug.

2. The latest new discovery on an officially paid-for Defense Media Network website, of the Flight 77 ""banked sharp"" remarks of all those firefighters in their FD Engine 101 truck from the Arlington County Fire Department, driving up the northbound part of I-395 northwards, on the part of I-395 that's runs adjacent and west of the Army Navy Country Club grounds. And that part of I-395 offers a front seat view from there, perpendicular on the downwards flight path from Flight 77.

Flying just beside the south face of the Sheraton Hotel, where a woman I mentioned before, sat in her hotel room and saw that plane flying crazy low in her angle of view, she seems to have looked on top of that plane, so low was it.
Flying a few hundred yards further within 50 feet above the Annex roofs (Terry Morin)

Those FD Engine 101 firefighters all saw Flight 77
make a sharp bank,
just before it disappeared over the horizon, behind the ridge-top beneath the Navy Annex Wing 8 building.
In such a "sharp bank" case, THUS unmistakeably on its way to the north side of the CITGO gas station.
Because the Flight 77 recovered FDR shows no bank at all in the last 20 seconds of recorded data from its flight time.
Thus, a real NEW revelation again to support the North of CITGO flight path as seen by Pentagon Police Force Sgts. Lagasse and Brooks, that nullifies all the officially shown South of CITGO flightpath indicators (5 cut poles, damage path inside Wedge 1 and 2 from entry hole to ""exit"" hole)

Any of the MANY many real American Firefighters left, willing to contact, better, visit these men, and video tape their investigation.?
Note : real Americans choose their RIGHTS above all other political humbug.

3. The Webber party revelation, enough said about that in my above posts.

Any brave real American left, willing to contact Special Customs Agent Webber.?
Note : real Americans choose their RIGHTS above all other political humbug.

I know there are a few hundred million REAL AMERICANS still present in the country I used to have held close to my heart, when I was a lot younger, and I still talk to lots of them, they are HURT to the bone, because of what happened to their country after Nov 21,1963.
Remember your First and other Amendments rights, you must reshape your once, by so many foreigners, idolized country, so you can again repeat as in the good old days of Fortune :

PROUD to be American.

Why, oh why, is this new investigation into 3 new witness groups, not going to be an ATS-wide PROMOTED effort.?
Especially since this site once was quite proud to be a conspiracy based web site.
It would make the owners and mods instantly world famous when that effort would turn up a fat YES, returned by f.ex. these firefighters to the question if they really personally saw Flight 77 BANK SHARPLY very nearby the Pentagon.
Or a fat YES by Trooper Myrlin Wimbish to the question if he personally saw Flight 77 fly NORTH of the CITGO gas station, on its way to the Pentagon's west wall impact point.
Or a fat YES by Mr Webber, when asked if he personally found the OEM offices in the 23rd floor of WTC-7, closed already at, or only a few minutes around, the clock of 09:00 a.m. on 9/11.

Of course they would also collect world fame, when they collect three fat NO's on these personal questions.
It's worth a try, to get some momentum back in the 9/11 doubting and trusting masses.

We might start to think that this site's motto could still be true, since lately, it shows a lot of signs that it carefully promotes to follow more of the official story conspiracy.
Which OS is of course INDEED a fat CONSPIRACY.
So, in effect, we can't blame them to be damn careful...

Sift through all still available online and offline 9/11 material, also use the Way Back Machine site extensively, and :

Start supporting my endless efforts to get the
HISTORICAL TRUTH about 9/11
into the worldwide history books.

Internet Archive is a non-profit digital library offering free universal access to books, movies & music, as well as 432 billion archived web pages :
Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine :
archive.org...

September 11 Television Archive : Free Movies : Download & Streaming : Internet Archive :
archive.org...

a reply to: TerryDon79

So far on this thread, his posts are far more persuasive, far better documented, than yours are.

originally posted by: LaBTop
Start supporting my endless efforts to get theHISTORICAL TRUTH about 9/11
into the worldwide history books.

But as we have all seen, you are actually not interested in the truth, just silly conspiracy theories!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: LaBTop
Start supporting my endless efforts to get the HISTORICAL TRUTH about 9/11 into the worldwide history books.

But as we have all seen, you are actually not interested in the truth, just silly conspiracy theories!

Silly CONSPIRACY THEORY equals OFFICIAL 9/11 THEORY.

Ain't that hilarious, and at the same time sad, that we all have seen you post that same sentence over and over again in this 9/11 forum, always good for a smirky chuckle, since all the while you're not realizing at all that you don't hurt us with that nonsensical insult-intended remark.

It's us 9/11 DOUBTERS, who understand what the real 9/11 Conspiracy is.
And who's behind it, that's glaringly obviously.
WHO support that kind of hegemony-politics and its false flags here, you make perfectly clear by every post.

No problem at all, your our MASCOT, who keeps us pretty SHARP.
And you too are allowed to have your own still slightly perforated view on history.

For me, it's as clear as glass what the conspiracy was.
And how it was performed.
And who is trying to contain the damage.

a reply to: LaBTop

And how it was performed.
And who is trying to contain the damage.

Please tell us exactly how the 4 buildings were brought down/ damaged.
Please tell us what agency/person is trying to contain the damage.

Ironic truthers claim their knowledge about science is superior. Especially when they lack physical evidence and base their fantasies on eyewitness accounts which has been shown to be unreliable study after study. Truth. Crashed passenger jets at sites. Study after study proves eyewitness accounts unreliable.