Archons, Heaven and Reincarnation

a reply to: Visitor2012

nice post. i feel that the secret to longevity is to be always searching for truth or something that you will never find, like the secrets of the universe, i feel its this reason that someone like Stephen Hawking who shouldn't have lived past hes 20 is still here, the body doesn't want to give up when your searching, whether its the meaning to our existence or that ever searching quest for truth.
just my input.
i for one have never experienced anything that is beyond the scope of scientific understanding, but it doesn't stop me from believing that there are things out there that are not known to the majority of us, i just hope one day to "know" for certain that this world is magical.

Regards, Dave.

a reply to: Visitor2012

Recognition of the self is not enlightenment though.. I don't know what you mean by recognition of the self anyway. You may have had an important shift in your perception of reality but it's hard for me to understand what you're really getting at here. You're not doing a great job of describing it, or at least I have trouble understanding exactly what you mean.

Having understanding of "oneness" from a theoretical or intellectual point of view is not the same as actually experiencing it. Now, you didn't speak of oneness but knowledge of self. Saying it is easy, well.. that depends on what kind of knowledge of self we're talking about. Simply acknowledging oneself as the observer is one thing, but is it the end of the road? I very much doubt that.

Enlightenment is hard. Someone will come along describing it as easy or effortless, getting to the state of mind where one looks at the World in such a way is hard though. Most seekers do not decide to pursue spirituality to subsequently and serendipitously find enlightenment a week later, though some are awakened to some degree by being hit in the head. Maybe we should start hitting people in the head..

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Most seekers do not decide to pursue spirituality to subsequently and serendipitously find enlightenment a week later, though some are awakened to some degree by being hit in the head. Maybe we should start hitting people in the head.

Haha. There was an ancient Japanese Sage who did just that. He would give certain students, the ones ripe for final awakening, shocking and terrifying wake up calls. I recall tell of one student being thrown down a large stair case, breaking his arms, and ribs. Now that's some now-ness for your a$s right there.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Simply acknowledging oneself as the observer is one thing, but is it the end of the road? I very much doubt that.

Acknowledging as in admit. Spoken at the end of the road, not the beginning. An admission that what is found, was ALWAYS so, but ignored or somehow eclipsed by the attention given to the phenomenal nature of individual identity.

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: TheLaughingGod

I wholeheartedly disagree with you that recognition of the Self, synonymous with knowledge of self, is difficult and takes time. It is sublimely simple and does not require time at all. It is the seeker who adds the complexity and the time. The same seeker that is revealed and discarded in the light of the ever-present truth.

Thank you for that. I think it is likely true and something I needed to hear at the moment.

RC

a reply to: Visitor2012

Sounds like my kind of guy.. I also like the story about the master forcing Milarepa to build a tower only to have him raze it subsequently, again and again.

Acknowledging as in admit. Spoken at the end of the road, not the beginning. An admission that what is found, was ALWAYS so, but ignored or somehow eclipsed by the attention given to the phenomenal nature of individual identity.

Yes sure but you're not really saying anything concrete here. Just more vague spiritual psychobabble(no offence). What separates this from mere intellectual understanding of "being more than just our identity"? It is without substance and it is not enlightenment and therefore not the end of the road. Or do you claim enlightenment?

It's just a normal mundane action.. I suspect you had a profound experience with this yourself but don't make the mistake of projecting it on others.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

It is without substance and it is not enlightenment and therefore not the end of the road. Or do you claim enlightenment?

If you mean enlightenment as a kind of 'extreme happening' or galactic fireworks show, then no. I've had many of those kinds of mystical experiences already. You're right, that is not the end of the road. Experiences have beginnings and endings. This is not that. So I don't use the word enlightenment. Too many people have dirtied it up.

It's just a normal mundane action.. I suspect you had a profound experience with this yourself but .

You're right, I've had countless profound experiences over the past 20 years. Many of them made me feel like I was becoming what I imagined was enlightenment, or at least getting close. But nothing could've been further from the truth. I'm one in many tens of millions of people who've fallen trap to the seductions of Maya. I was awakened perhaps, that was all. Awakened to the supreme majesty of the phenomenal world, But no final resolution. No end of the seeking.
Because the subject, the self, CAN NOT be found within the content of the phenomenal world Including the body and mind or any 'realm' one chooses to dwell in, no matter how plain or magical.

You don't need to trigger mystical experiences within the body to know yourself. You don't need to visit other worldly realms and play 20 questions with angelic beings whom you may or may not trust, to know yourself. You don't need OBE visits into the astral realms to recognize the subject. I'm using the word 'you' as a generality, not you personally.

don't make the mistake of projecting it on others

Nobody is forced to agree or align themselves with what's spoken here. Don't tell me I'm making a mistake by sharing it with others, when you don't even understand what I'm talking about.

a reply to: Visitor2012

Enlightenment is a state.. just because you haven't found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I'm not telling you not to share your perspective.. I'm saying you may have had some kind of profound shift in perception related to this "recognition of the self" but don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone will have the same experience simply by "acknowledging the self".

I mean.. this is as vague as it gets in the first place. You're not really saying anything of substance here.

If an end to the seeking is what you're after just stop seeking then. This is about as practical as your advice and about as profound. There you go.

(Also, there are stages to enlightenment.. you don't generally go about it willy nilly.. As I understand it you have to build the solar bodies. Have you built the solar bodies through sexual alchemy?)

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

hey, if you are interested into what you say and eager to practice ... a lot, than please check eastern philosophies if you want and did not already...

And also be mindful that many religions have two parts, one is a bit of what visitor is talking about, the other is a bit of what you are talking about, BUT both are equally important and vital to final realization. And also latter part can be dangerous to play around so there are steps we need to discover and than climb and realize before we can start to realize what we want and how to achieve liberation or enlightenment.
Exactly due to many pits and traps we can get entangled during path to truth and there is a lot of metaphors and allegories used everywhere and implemented by past realized masters in every authentic spiritual or religious text; they are there for our safety.
Some get through them successfully and some give up and others are satisfied with what they know and realized and are happy on some level...so nothing wrong at all with anybody, yeah?



as far as my opinion goes, you are both right and both wrong in some points, but honestly, kudos for exploring and being interested into inner nature to both as it is rare to come across similar people in modern society!
And just to be clear, there is also some rights and wrongs left for me to iron out, so i am no one special and never wanted to be, just a friendly fella learning to be natural and simple and honestly want to clear a bit of confusion; if i can manage that because i am still a bit confused on some levels...

If you are genuinely interested and have a pure heart with good intentions than follow intuition and discover this for yourself by study and a lot of meditation and it is no use dribbling each other on ats or other people about it.
And you can just ignore this post for all i care, because this is a personal intimate inner journey of transformation and apart from intuition only realized guru or spiritual master can help you with proper advice and guide you to the truth.
as truth has no sides and no path and everything we experience can have deeper insight and meaning as teacher/truth is always with and around us but we overlook our lessons ... until we learn and get it right.

we can think of inner and outer worlds as personal mirrors and pointers to what we should do, everybody knows most of the time anyway on some level...but we chose to be in ignorance because we like it and don't like to change most of the time if we feel comfortable most of the time already. At least this is my view from experience, although everyone is different and unique and that may not be true for others...

at the end spirituality is a natural and divine creative process of development getting/transmuting mind of the practitioner to natural purity and state, from ignorance to wisdom, from led to gold, etc...
Everyone can get different conclusions and experiences depending on many parameters, so comparing notes and experiences to others on the path can be helpful, but it can also lead you where you would not go otherwise...

let intuition be your guide and learn to trust yourself or your spiritual master if you are lucky to have found one.
we and him or her are the SAME at the end of the journey, because truth or essence is ever present and everywhere already and it would not be wrong to say that in the eyes of the real master we are all already the same...apart from our ignorance.

which points also to another thing...seeking is a starting point, but at some point we realize and understand that truth is not gained by seeking, doing or grasping.
just a friendly hint and a bit of encouragement if you or anyone is really bold and curious enough to try finding it.

ohm ah hum and i wish for all beings to find their way out of suffering and be happy!

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a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Enlightenment is a state.. just because you haven't found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Why are you telling people what it is or isn't, when you haven't "found" it yet? Likewise, how can you tell if someone is or isn't abiding in the ultimate truth? What ever you call enlightenment, if it does not include knowledge of self, it's just another outside phenomenal experience like everything else. And I guarantee you, it will be YOU who watches it come and go. Know your self first.

I'm not telling you not to share your perspective.. I'm saying you may have had some kind of profound shift in perception related to this "recognition of the self" but don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone will have the same experience simply by "acknowledging the self".

i never said anyone would have any experience by acknowledging the self. I'm not talking about an experience. I'm talking about YOU, the subjective observer of ALL experiencing.

I speak from what I HAVE discovered, and all you can do is juxtapose it over your "idea" of what you haven't discovered, and arrogantly dismiss my words as if you know what I'm talking about. That is ludicrous. FIND something for yourself first, DISCOVER your idea of enlightenment first then speak from your OWN understanding and not from your projections about it. Otherwise this is a one sided conversation.

If an end to the seeking is what you're after just stop seeking then. This is about as practical as your advice and about as profound. There you go.

That was very silly to say. It's not profound or practical, it's just idiotic. I never said I was after the end of seeking, what I said is that I discovered that which ended the seeking. If you found what you were looking for, why would you continue to seek for it?

(Also, there are stages to enlightenment.. you don't generally go about it willy nilly.. As I understand it you have to build the solar bodies. Have you built the solar bodies through sexual alchemy?)

Tell me, if YOU built the solar body....who or what is doing the building? YOU! so why not skip the nonsense and find out who or what you are first? Know thyself, remember that saying? Otherwise you will never stop seeking as long as you place conditional nonsense like this between yourself and truth.

a reply to: UniFinity

as far as my opinion goes, you are both right and both wrong

Now it finally gets interesting. What do you disagree with?

originally posted by: RedCairo

I wholeheartedly disagree with you that recognition of the Self, synonymous with knowledge of self, is difficult and takes time. It is sublimely simple and does not require time at all. It is the seeker who adds the complexity and the time. The same seeker that is revealed and discarded in the light of the ever-present truth.

I agree and disagree. Yes, coming to complete self-awareness is a light-burden, but presently there are countless demonic forces (archons) that literally feed off of our ignorance and lack of self-awareness. Self-awareness is easy, but the spiritual leeches make it difficult and distracting.


"Beelzebub has a devil of his own for me.... for me.... for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

-Freddy Mercury (Queen)


This is why it is strongly advised to devote 100% of your psyche to God (Good/Love/Truth) - otherwise evil forces have a foothold.

a reply to: cooperton

Since you are replying to my post, I felt the need to reply.

I agree and disagree. Yes, coming to complete self-awareness is a light-burden

It's not a burden at all. Liberation has no weight. You are already aware of that which is aware of self awareness. So who are you.

but presently there are countless demonic forces (archons) that literally feed off of our ignorance and lack of self-awareness.

Trouble comes for the persona, the individual identity which resides in the psychological mind, not the Self. The self is Impersonal, absolutely untouched and thus impervious to any phenomenal happenings. It's is completely impartial to whatever appears before it. Phenomenon can only play in its own lane, it can not touch the non-phenomenal. These demonic forces are illusory and they draw their power from your belief in them. Without your interest or attention, these types of forces and archetypal encounters, eventually disappear from whence they came. Into nothingness.

A sage would give no attention to these encounters. In fact, the Buddha, himself refused to give the enemy's grand armies any degree of attention or power of belief whatsoever. Firmly grounded in the truth, they vanished in the light of his abidance.

Self-awareness is easy, but the spiritual leeches make it difficult and distracting.

There is no force in the Universe, that can stop you from re-discovering that which you are, always have been and always will be. The clouds may cover the ground in darkness, but they can not cover the sky in darkness. The clouds appearing in it have NO true form, except the form you give them. And even that will fade and go in time.

originally posted by: Visitor2012

It's not a burden at all. Liberation has no weight. You are already aware of that which is aware of self awareness. So who are you.

That's what I was saying. Light is weightless.

Trouble comes for the persona, the individual identity which resides in the psychological mind, not the Self. The self is Impersonal, absolutely untouched and thus impervious to any phenomenal happenings. It's is completely impartial to whatever appears before it. Phenomenon can only play in its own lane, it can not touch the non-phenomenal. These demonic forces are illusory and they draw their power from your belief in them. Without your interest or attention, these types of forces and archetypal encounters, eventually disappear from whence they came. Into nothingness.

A sage would give no attention to these encounters. In fact, the Buddha, himself refused to give the enemy's grand armies any degree of attention or power of belief whatsoever. Firmly grounded in the truth, they vanished in the light of his abidance.

I agree. But slipping into forgetfulness happens so often. Karmic barriers are built around the Self, causing a foggy haze between your present realization and Self. As much as we shouldn't consider self-realization a monumentous task, we also should realize the malevolent forces that are benefiting from deluding us from self-awareness - yet at the same time realize they are only as powerful as we let them be.

There is no force in the Universe, that can stop you from re-discovering that which you are, always have been and always will be. The clouds may cover the ground in darkness, but they can not cover the sky in darkness. The clouds appearing in it have NO true form, except the form you give them. And even that will fade and go in time.

a reply to: cooperton

I agree. But slipping into forgetfulness happens so often. Karmic barriers are built around the Self, causing a foggy haze between your present realization and Self.

It's for this very reason why I believe meditation is the most powerful tool. Because it provides the gap necessary to experientially recognize the difference between your mind..and you. To first, perceive the difference. From that point on, you can't be deceived by anyone, not even your own mind.

a reply to: Visitor2012

the depth,

there is a way to realize a "stateless state", where causes and effect are seen completely for what they are and we just being,
happy, relaxed... natural and at ease.

conditioning of any kind is the problem ... of body and mind!
as this is not an intellectual level sort of problem and even worth to debate...so much for interesting, huh?


okey, intellectual level of understanding is important,
in order to practice in right way we must get to the correct view. And correct view, in my opinion, is not pointing to a problem that is only solved on intellectual level but it is pointing to a mind with potential like the sky...open space.

i recommend to read about Rumi, Buddha, or many other past self realized masters ... all achieved this "stateless state"...were any kind of intellectual pointing is just that...pointing.

in my opinion, there are all kinds of interesting teachings available, inner, outer, hidden...if we let intuition guide us further ... all it takes is the purest intentions and most important - strong motivation for practice of ... meditation and mindfulness.

yeah...as i am writing that i am also reminding myself...what am i doing right now? why am i even trying to explain this...realizing the futility of such action, when it will lead to only more thoughts which are besides the point and pointing.

so i should stop

.

originally posted by: UniFinity

yeah...as i am writing that i am also reminding myself...what am i doing right now? why am i even trying to explain this...realizing the futility of such action, when it will lead to only more thoughts which are besides the point and pointing.

so i should stop

.

I get to that conclusion all the time. I then shut my mouth and wonder if all my talk is erroneous. Perhaps a temporary vow of silence is in order...

a reply to: UniFinity

conditioning of any kind is the problem ... of body and mind!
as this is not an intellectual level sort of problem and even worth to debate...so much for interesting, huh?

True, but If you recognize your own conditioning, in a way, you've already transcended them.

okey, intellectual level of understanding is important,
in order to practice in right way we must get to the correct view. And correct view, in my opinion, is not pointing to a problem that is only solved on intellectual level but it is pointing to a mind with potential like the sky...open space.

Yes the mind is divinely powerful, but even it reports to a higher force, the perceiver of it. You. What then must you be, you who perceives a powerful mind with potential like the sky. You, as you are already, your place of observation, and your intuitive knowing must ALREADY be higher than that, to perceive such a thing.

i recommend to read about Rumi, Buddha, or many other past self realized masters ... all achieved this "stateless state"...were any kind of intellectual pointing is just that...pointing.

I've called each of them my Master when their essence entered my life and I still do.
"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside.” -Rumi

In their pointings, I've come to find in my journey that the stateless state, IS the self. The Self, the fundamental you, IS the stateless state. Which is conceptually the same thing as the word non-phenomenal, which is how I refer to it. Where from awareness arises and perceives phenomenality.

However, there is no such thing as a stateless experience. There is no such thing as a stateless phenomenon. You can only experience phenomenon , so you can't experience stateless-ness neither could you perceive one. However, the subject is the "stateless state". The subject is the non-phenomenal perceiver. And the subject and you are one.

in my opinion, there are all kinds of interesting teachings available, inner, outer, hidden...if we let intuition guide us further ... all it takes is the purest intentions and most important - strong motivation for practice of ... meditation and mindfulness.

I agree.

a reply to: Visitor2012

However, there is no such thing as a stateless experience. There is no such thing as a stateless phenomenon. You can only experience phenomenon , so you can't experience stateless-ness neither could you perceive one. However, the subject is the "stateless state". The subject is the non-phenomenal perceiver. And the subject and you are one.

in my opinion "experience" in such true stillness can go ... beyond five senses and their consciousness.

check out this page, it is about buddhism and what they explain about types of consciousnesses.
www.rigpawiki.org...

or in advaita vedanta this would be called turiya state ... or many other names in other systems.