Neuroscientists have recorded the brain activity of a man at the exact moment he 'saw God'

a reply to: cooperton

Ok, I'll play the same game as you:

Pain isn't actually a nervous system response to stimuli, it's actually a religious revelations from the Pain God.

a reply to: GetHyped

The guy didn't equate something physical to some unknown force, he had what he genuinely believed was an actual religious experience where he spoke to a being he believed to be god. So much so that he changed his life completely.

That is not the same as your poor analogy.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not saying that all of this could be a product of broken mind, it's just why would it have to be a religious experience? why not a tripped out M&M world with flying spaghetti monsters?
These things also happen when mind altering substances are involved so why religious? Especially in a man that wasn't religious before?

These are all questions the study is unable to produce data for. People have spiritual experiences on certain drugs as well, '___' is one and we produce that in our own body and people have been taking that to speak to their gods for centuries.
I would suggest that perhaps these substances activate in that section of the brain.

If I was to have a brain chemical trip on my death bed, I would much rather be bathed in a psychedelic light than your standard white light most people experience in NDE's, funny they are ALWAYS a white light.

It's got me thinking now. What if all religion has stemmed from someone having an epileptic seizure and then convincing folk that what they experienced was real?

It now comes back to the chicken and the egg situation, which came 1st? Religion or the seizure?

'Non believer' from Israel. Lmao. Funniest thing I've read all week. But associates as a jew...mwahahahahah aha ah.

This is great news. Science can now possibly identify the area activated during theses "experiences" and can now help treat people with these "experiences" and possibly stop further cognitive degeneration.

And now we have proof of a physical, biological affect that create these delusions. Now people claiming to have this experiences without activating these zones will be frauds....lol. no more faith, actual proof

Some brain activity was recorded and someone tagged it as "religious", what absolute tripe haha

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: GetHyped

Correlation does not imply causation.

And that cuts both ways. There's no evidence that it was some mythical being who visited him.

Considering that we can instill feelings of religious experience through stimulating certain parts of the brain, one of these is far more likely than the other...

So I suppose all mystics of every age and place who had visions of God, etc were waving magnets in their faces?!
I think NOT. If one reads the mystical literature carefully, one discovers that, far from trying to stimulate themselves in some way, mystics starve themselves of ALL stimulation so as to free themselves from their five senses. So these laboratory attempts to show a correlation between magnetic disturbance in the brain and religious experience have absolutely NO RELEVANCE to the question of whether a religious experience is something other that self-delusion. So what's really more likely: that some scientists were dealing with phony mystics who duped them into believing that they (the mystics) had visits from God? Or that you can only have such an experience if a Ph.D in a white coat first uses expensive equipment to stimulate your pre-frontal cerebral cortex? The whole thing is a stupid farce. It proves nothing other than some kinds of deluded, religious experience occur in association with certain changes in certain areas of the brain.

Of course, the implicit message being foisted onto anyone stupid enough to believe it is that religious experience must be a delusion because it always has an observable, physical cause. First of all, scientists are the last people on Earth who could possibly judge whether someone is telling the truth when he claims to be having a religious experience. They don't have scientific instruments that can independently determine whether the experience is authentic or merely the result of imagination by deluded, religious zealots or mentally deranged schizophrenics. So their conclusion begs the question that the subjects of their study were having genuine religious experiences in the first place. But, then, they HAVE to beg the question, otherwise they cannot carry out the experiment because they have no other means for testing whether the religious experience is phony or real. Their materialistic outlook has already answered that question, anyway, because it allows no place for God, so their experiments are bound to have the outcome they wanted so as to reinforce their atheism!

a reply to: cuckooold

NO they didnt, they came up with an interesting experiment that would scientifically discredit The idea of the great spirit. The only thing is is there is no way to prove exactly what happened or even if it was a real experiment. This could have been just a story backed up by story telling and corruption, in no way can this be proven.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

My analogy is exactly the same as those who claim that an experience with a mythical being has the same plausibility as the more mundane explanation of it being nothing more than a neuro/physiological response to stimuli.

The very fact that you call my analogy "poor" goes to show how absurd the "it was god!" interpretation is.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not saying that all of this could be a product of broken mind, it's just why would it have to be a religious experience?

Funny how the guy living in a culturally Jewish country didn't see visions of Allah, Jesus Christ or Zeus.

Just goes to show that people interpret these experiences through the lense of their culture, not some objective truth.

originally posted by: micpsi

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: GetHyped

Correlation does not imply causation.

And that cuts both ways. There's no evidence that it was some mythical being who visited him.

Considering that we can instill feelings of religious experience through stimulating certain parts of the brain, one of these is far more likely than the other...

So I suppose all mystics of every age and place who had visions of God, etc were waving magnets in their faces?!
I think NOT.

Cool strawman bro.

Isnt that the limbic system aka the emotional center that drugs such as methamphetamines and coc aine destroy a lot of connections where both basically cause the addict to lose all empathy or compassion for others or basically become a sociopath in their addiction?

Fotunately, the brain can heal itself make new pathways and regrow cells over time from those chemical lobotomies from the solvents etc used to extract and process in the coca plant that peruvians have chewed the leaves of for as long as recorded history without any major issues, and well methamphetimines are basically a wholly manufactured synthetic.

Looks like the major hot spot happens in the penal aka 3rd eye, which is about the size of a grain of rice and produces a specific neurotransmitter wholly local to it unless supplimented, although it doesnt mean that suppliment crosses the blood brain barrier out of the stomach/digestive system.

a reply to: GetHyped

The conversion of Saul (to Paul) also seems to be a pre-modern description of an epileptic seizure followed by religious conversion of the type described.

Conversion of Saul

en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:Michelangelo_Merisi_da_Caravaggio_-_The_Conversion_of_St._Paul_-_WGA04135.jpg

a reply to: cuckooold

Is it me or does the top of the brain has the devil's face smack dab in the middle?

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not saying that all of this could be a product of broken mind, it's just why would it have to be a religious experience?

Funny how the guy living in a culturally Jewish country didn't see visions of Allah, Jesus Christ or Zeus.

Just goes to show that people interpret these experiences through the lense of their culture, not some objective truth.

Can you imagine the problems otherwise?

"Is that you, YHVH?"

"Not exactly: The things that you're liable/To read in your Bible/It ain't necessarily so..."

"You mean the damned Arabs were right? Argh, I'll never hear the end of this back at the kibbutz!"

"Nope-itty-nope-nope-nope!! Here's ........XENU

Psych!"

"Oy vey!!! Nurse????! NURSE!! I need a lobotomy--stat!"

originally posted by: cooperton

Then, abruptly, he yelled 'And you are Adonai (name of the Hebrew God) the Lord!' stating later that God had revealed to him, ordering him to bring redemption to the people of Israel."

The prefrontal cortex (the area that was highlighted) is majorly involved with planning. This area of the brain was activated because God was showing this person His plan. You can't make this stuff up.

I sincerely hope you are joking.... really, if not, try and read the bull# you just wrote again.

The prefrontal cortex is where the imagination lives. So what this scan shows is that the human mind is excessively good at making stuff up, especially when it comes to religion.

Thank you, dear doctors, for showing without a shred of doubt that religious people are more or less nutcakes that make # up, and believe it themselves.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
It now comes back to the chicken and the egg situation, which came 1st? Religion or the seizure?

The spirit world around us always exists on a higher frequency wavelength.

When a person goes into a seizure, their senses are expanded. Eyes can see a larger visible spectrum into IR and UV. They can see cloaked monsters and angels. They can see vertical rainbows descending from the sky where upon impact, transform the drab gray landscape into a primary colour paradise.

So religion came first, seizures allow people to see the other world as long as its a minor seizure.

a reply to: GetHyped

Or maybe the culture they are born into reflects their Religion, perhaps they were born there because of the religion their soul is a part of.
I should say I'm agnostic, I can't be arrogant enough to believe I know the answer to the greatest question of mankind.
I've done enough research on the occult, theology, mysticism, near death experiences, pre-birth, reincarnation, astral projection to know without doubt there is more to our existence than we currently understand.

You dismiss the content of the persons supposed delusions out of hand but they are highly unique, why specifically was it a truly religious experience?
When people return from NDE's they more often than not become religious and want to tell the world even though a lot of them were athiests.
There are numerous examples of people that feel that their NDE felt more real to them, than they ever felt in their bodies.
This man has had a similar type of reaction so it is interesting and I do think it would be good to study this further as it could further our understanding of consciousness.
I'm not against the research it's the rash conclusions based on limited data that i dislike. This seems like it was written as confirmation bias for Atheists rather than a real search for the truth.

a reply to: mbkennel

Reminds me of Ezikiel said to have dreamt about heaven after sleeping on a stone for a pillow... he could have tripped and landed on that or been clobbed with one and had such visions. Taking anything subjective as literal seems to have a fault of becoming subject oneself to whatever it is.

!aye carrumba¡

originally posted by: flice

I sincerely hope you are joking.... really, if not, try and read the bull# you just wrote again.

The prefrontal cortex is where the imagination lives. So what this scan shows is that the human mind is excessively good at making stuff up, especially when it comes to religion.

Thank you, dear doctors, for showing without a shred of doubt that religious people are more or less nutcakes that make # up, and believe it themselves.

Oh my, you're an angry one aren't you? Try to breath once in a while, it'll help your overall well-being.

A quick google search would reaffirm that the prefrontal cortex is involved with planning. Behavioral Planning in the Prefrontal Cortex

"Where the imagination lives", as you say, is technically everywhere in the cerebral cortex. For example, imaginative sensation would be somewhere posterior to the central sulcus (parietal, or occipital lobe). If you were to imagine, for example, rotating an object in your mind, Brodman's areas 7A and 7B (majorly the parietal lobe) would be activated.

To say that the prefrontal cortex is what generates imagination is ignorant. On the other hand, Planning is one of the main functions of the prefrontal cortex:

"Recent studies of subhuman primates and humans have revealed the role of the prefrontal cortex in more general aspects of behavioral planning" -Source