History of Freemasonry Help

a reply to: TerryDon79
Signs and symbols would lead you to the history, there is a book by Albert Churchward called " Signs and Symbols of Primordial Man "there are actually African Tribes that have been identified that ritually have used many of the known hand signals and signs that the modern Freemasons use, also at Dendura Egypt at the Temple of Hathor, the first so called grandmaster Meruka has a statue which can be seen today.

There he has his left foot forward, a lions paw ( a real one) and a triangular Apron, some things today most would raise their eyebrow because of their resemblance to the Freemasonic connotations.

This Grandmaster , Meruka, came many, many years prior to Alexander the Great and his conquests, many of these existing rituals, signs and symbols are weak recreations and also more modern versions of the original brotherhood of the snake, the serpent, the Sphinx (one of the offspring of their legends and where they, the Ancient Egyptians came from) etc...

Basically the rituals, the purpose in society, the control factor were rebuilt in Europe for their view of being the chosen people and ability to rule by divine right, they were used to secure trust, to secure ways to communicate and also make sure any secrets whether professional, political or other would not be known by those not in the know and if revealed death would surely be a penalty.

There were many, many ancient mystery schools and organizations some containing information the other might not know, what we have today are people in a social club that have secrets, they use this system to conceal them and make sure know one knows what they are up to when putting plans into effect, don't get me wrong, during the periods of conquest and discovery of Egypt, they did find valuable information to use to absorb into their organization.

But at best what we have today is somewhat an attempt to copy the rituals of the ancient Egyptians and because of the later period of the Turk from the Holy Roman Empire, Alexander the Great, was so in Awe of the Egyptians and having been made made an honorary Egyptian and Pharoah, he was no Egyptian.

He preserved much of this as possible and he was one of the last links that Europeans in error make to link themselves to the Ancient Egyptians through the Ptomaic Pharoahs who were basically the last Egyptian period.

There were Nubian and also African Pharoahs that existed in Egypt for thousands of years prior to the outside Hyksos and Ptolmaic heads of state if you will.

So I would say, that from that period to 1717, they probably bear a very little resemblance, I put money on it though that there is very little changed from 1717 until now and also Pike was charged with rewriting rituals, this should also give a clue that the craft was being used for clandestine, secret operations which have nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptians or the original craft more than likely.

a reply to: phinubian

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to belittle, but I'm looking for actual evidence.

It's a tricky one because there's a lot of "he said/she said" out there.

originally posted by: phinubian
So I would say, that from that period to 1717, they probably bear a very little resemblance, I put money on it though that there is very little changed from 1717 until now and also Pike was charged with rewriting rituals, this should also give a clue that the craft was being used for clandestine, secret operations which have nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptians or the original craft more than likely.

Pike rewrote degrees used only in the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction. His rewrites are largely irrelevant outside of that body.

a reply to: TerryDon79

There is evidence of Freemasonry or what you Phre Messen in Egypt to be exact, again, the signs and symbols should help, there is no he say she say in my estimation with seeing tokens, regalia, we know it came from Egypt, it should not be difficult to see this, that would be where my investigations would begin, but I understand your concerns.

I thought I would bring some useful information, do you have any evidence whatsoever you deem authentic or useable that you might share?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Correct, I did not say they were not, basically what was established prior to Pike are based in Egyptian Lore and if possible to be traced, before the Ancient Egyptians, we are talking thousands of years these rituals, mystery schools existed, long before the fall of the Egyptians to the Hyksos and so called emancipation from them by, the Turkish colonialist Alexander the Great, representing the Holy Roman Empire.
He was given the keys to the city if you will and passed to Ptolemy via Alexandria to pass down to those who came after but as we know that much of that amassing of knowledge was also destroyed.

a reply to: phinubian

Evidence? Yeah. It's been found throughout the thread. Best actual evidence I can find is 10th century. Circumstantial evidence can go back for 1000s of years.

Signs and whatnot can be adapted by a new, unrelated group. Just look at the swastika.

originally posted by: phinubian
Correct, I did not say they were not, basically what was established prior to Pike are based in Egyptian Lore...

None of the Scottish Rite degrees are based on Egyptian lore. If you feel otherwise post the one(s) in question for discussion.

a reply to: phinubian
Pre-Pike ritual was not Egyptian.

Plus, there's more to Freemasonry than the Scottish Rite or any other appendant/concordant order.

Just thought I'd post this here because a, it looks so nice and b, it's the Regius manuscript lol. Who wouldn't want to see it?

originally posted by: kibric
Albert Pike was Spiritually deceived

What does that mean?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Madimi did the same with John dee

Masons should know that if they believe in "spirit guides "
and listen to information given by them
these "spirit guides " can lie and manipulate just as well as any man

if you are into the occult and practise the rituals
information seemingly given freely without any agenda from a "spirit guide "
is usually to good to be true

Albert pike being spiritually deceived
was my observation on his "spirit guide "

unfortunately history is full of smart men being used by others

a reply to: kibric

Have you got any proof of what you just claimed?

It does just sound like you're making assumptions without knowing anything though.

originally posted by: kibric
Albert pike being spiritually deceived
was my observation on his "spirit guide "

What 'spirit guide'?

a reply to: TerryDon79

Claim ?

for the reading impaired

Albert pike being spiritually deceived
was MY OBSERVATION on his "spirit guide "

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: TerryDon79

Claim ?

for the reading impaired

Albert pike being spiritually deceived
was MY OBSERVATION on his "spirit guide "

Observation? What did you observe to make the claim?

a reply to: TerryDon79

His spirit guide as i mentioned
was who i observed

if you are into occultism and believe in that

as stated before it was an personal observation

believe what you will

ATS is full of far crazier experiences shared by their members

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: TerryDon79

His spirit guide as i mentioned
was who i observed

So you dreamed it? Hardly makes it fact.

if you are into occultism and believe in that

Dreams? Yeah, I believe we dream.

as stated before it was an personal observation

Yes, you did. Dreams can sometimes seem very real.

believe what you will

I guess you believe dreams are real. I believe dreams are dreams.

ATS is full of far crazier experiences shared by their members

And none of them have got anything to do with the history of freemasonry. You know, the topic of this thread.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Why do I get this feeling you have had the same conversation about this before?

It all reminds my of that sad gypsy guy that keeps coming back.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: TerryDon79

Why do I get this feeling you have had the same conversation about this before?

It all reminds my of that sad gypsy guy that keeps coming back.

Now you mention it, it does seem familiar.

Isn't that the dude who thought that freemasonry started in 1717 because that's when the first GL was opened?

a reply to: TerryDon79

Yes, he kept posting constellations and trying to use that as proof of Masonry changing over the years. But that was not even the premise of your Original Post.