I'm against socialism, apparently I'm an idiot. Ask me nothing.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Well to be fair I know of no one who wants an out right 100% socialist government/economy. Sure there is a small fringe of brain dead collage kids that might but there numbers are small, very small. However I know a large group of people who want small doses of socialism for specific things. I really don't see the problem with it either, it fits with the US's history. We have always been a mixed market (capitalism and socialism). From roads, railroads, military funding, police, firemen, garbage pick up, snow removal, K-12 education, social services etc. The only new socialist idea's I see people wanting right now are healthcare, to me that fits in just like military, police and firemen.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Show me a quote from Bernie during his campaign for president saying he wants to change this country to full socialism.

I triple dog dare ya.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I've been asking him for the same thing, but no one is providing it.

No one can show me where Bernie has said " No more private business owners "

Not one link. Not even from huffington or some other sketchy news site.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Why do so many have such an issue with the definition?

I mean, I got it from Webster's Dictionary.

Socialism is the government controlling the means of production.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The fact that he admits to being a socialist isn't enough for you?

a reply to: DBCowboy

I think you know better than to talk to socialists. The road to socialism is paved in tyranny.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Enter Fabian Socialism which is socialism in increments. They knew the people would rise up if real communism is employed all at once. Lenin said that communism is the goal of socialism. These guys all knew it. So they began to set it up incrementally so the frogs would stop jumping out of the pot before their goal is realized. Ive been railed at for posting that Agenda 21 is the new communism. But look what its about.... its about controlling world resources, its about forcing people to conserve whether they like it or not, its about rationing(no beef for you Komrade, youre killing the earth and causing global warming), its about total control and getting rid of private property rights(no big suvs in fact fewer cars because bikes are better for the environment....conservation easements on private property---seems willing enough but you lose control of your land, eminent domain, land grabs like Bundy Ranch and Oregon stand off, ICLEI type local policies which dictate what you can do on your own property and building codes which reduce single family dwellings and put up more condos....just take a drive through Bozeman, they have ICLEI there and almost all condos, duplexes, and apartments and a housing shortage to boot!!! Its all very subtle and happening before our eyes.

a reply to: DBCowboy

He calls himself a democratic socialist, first of all.

Second of all - Socialism has come to mean a lot of different things. Roads can be called socialist because they are a government program, for instance - In that aspect, the government does have control over one part of production of one type of service.

The dictionary definition is no longer reliable, we just don't have words for what is practiced, and what is successful in other nations. Switzerland has free-market and capitalistic elements, as well as a larger government, higher payroll taxes and the like - And likely less corporate loop-holes, and subsidies. They are not full on socialistic, so what are they? There's no one word to describe them, so Sanders takes on the most common term used - Socialist.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DBCowboy

Show me a quote from Bernie during his campaign for president saying he wants to change this country to full socialism.

I triple dog dare ya.

Kayla, he's a communist. I know this will bring a rain of screeches on my head, but so what.... Bernie was active in communist front groups and socialist groups years ago. Lenin said that the goal of socialism is communism. Fabian socialism is socialism in increments so the people cannot see what is really happening and they can brainwash future youth into accepting it.
The Progressives know that if they just push something sounding less scary like "Democratic Socialism" then all the frog will adjust to the temperature and stop jumping out of the water.

a reply to: deadlyhope

He calls himself a democratic socialist, first of all.

See my last post.... hes a communist with a past riddled with communist associations, he likes bread lines like the old soviet union...democratic socialist just sounds so much nicer, kind of like sustainable development sounds better than rationing of food and water.

K-12 education,

We haven't always had this.... not till late 1821 but the country was not founded on public education. For the record that was before Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto.
Here's an article that's pro public ed but there are some interesting things which point to the socialist way of being forced into things....

Part and parcel with homogenizing the public schools was the effort to ensure that all eligible children were present for instruction. As a result, compulsory attendance laws were passed beginning in 1852. And by 1918, compulsory attendance through elementary school was the law in each of the (then) 48 states. - See more at: www.educationnews.org...

www.educationnews.org...

Compulsory.... theres the key there. People believe socialism means free public stuff and liberty too....they are surely wrong if they think liberty goes with it. Why do you think they are trying to force homeschooling to comply with Common Core Standards? Is it because public education is so much better than private or homeschooling? Noooo its because socialists are big government totalitarians who want it their way or the highway(which they own by the way)
Just food for thought. Ben Frankin said, "A Republic if you can keep it."

a reply to: deadlyhope

If you have to deny/change the definition of something to make it more palatable to the masses, then there is something fundamentally wrong with it to begin with.

a reply to: defiythelie

Sure there is a small fringe of brain dead collage kids that might but there numbers are small, very small.

The Occupy movement is full of people who are agitating for things like getting rid of capitalism and implementing direct and/or participatory democracy....means getting rid of representative republic.... the organizers Adbusters hate corporations of every kind not just the large ones.... the Ruckus Society was part of it...that's Soros' Tides Foundation influence....

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: kaylaluv

The fact that he admits to being a socialist isn't enough for you?

Nope. Just like JFK being a Catholic didn't mean he wanted to transform America into a Catholic nation.

Bernie wants some expanded social programs - he has been open about that. He has said that he wants America to be more like the Nordic countries. Those countries are actually capitalist with a lot of social programs.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's when you try to silence the disagreement that is disturbing.

Oh noes!They is trying to silence me! I will take this to the streets! I will whine from the bell tower! People should never tell me to shut up!

Or are you okay with that?

I gotta be honest snowflake - within the confines of ATS? Yeah, I'm pretty OK with that

But my preferences don't amount to a hill of beans around here, so you're safe

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

At least you're honest about wanting to silence people with whom you disagree with.

Kudos for that!

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Nope not a Communist. He was an extreme idealist in his youth, but has become more pragmatic over the years.

He wants more social programs, like in the Scandinavian countries. You know, the Nordic Model? Those countries aren't full socialist.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Wanting for people to shut up? So natural it's hardly worth mentioning

I can pretty much guarantee that there are people here who wouldn't mind if I shut up

We do it to each other all the time here - but most of us take it on the chin and move on

Out in the real world? Never - let the uglies speak

originally posted by: deadlyhope

He calls himself a democratic socialist, first of all.

In that sentence, "democratic" is an adverb describing the adjective "socialist", which is used to describe himself (the subject of the sentence).

So. "Socialism" is defined as the social (or common) ownership of the means of production. "Democratic" simply denotes the method by which that ownership (control) is procured--through popular consensus (even though we all know voting means nothing, but I digress).

When Sanders calls himself a socialist, he is advocating for state control of the means of production. It doesn't matter how that control is to be achieved.

Do you understand? Or do you just want to continue willfully misrepresenting what socialism is?

Or have you been completely hoodwinked by semantic gymnastics?

a reply to: NthOther

Show me a link that says he wants to get rid of private ownership of all business and commerce. Please.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

If I don't like what someone is saying, I ignore them or refute what they say.

I don't try to shut the person up. Silencing people because of different opinions is somewhat authoritarian.

But that's just my opinion.