The wage gap

I hear this a lot. A woman will make 20-30 percent less than a man in the same position.

I'd like examples.

I'm asking for examples where a company legitimately can get away with paying a woman less based solely on gender.

Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, so they naturally pay more. Top 10 most dangerous jobs(from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics): Fishers, loggers, aircraft pilots, farmers and ranchers, roofers, iron and steel workers, refuse and recyclable material collectors, industrial machinery installation and repair, truck drivers, construction laborers. They're all male-dominated jobs.

Men are far more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice). According to the White House report, "In 2009, only 7 percent of female professionals were employed in the relatively high paying computer and engineering fields, compared with 38 percent of male professionals." Professional women, on the other hand, are far more prevalent "in the relatively low-paying education and health care occupations."

a reply to: rockintitz

There are none.

Unless you compare an apple to an orange.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

Exactly.

There will still be some who are so deluded on this charade that is the myth of the wage gap though.

I want statistics. Facts.

I leave this subject to the real egg heads who love crunching data of varying quality and integrity.

a reply to: stabstab

It's an opinion forum though and I'd like to hear yours

a reply to: rockintitz

Actually females working in the Clinton foundation make 38% less than their male counteroarts.

dailycaller.com...

a reply to: rockintitz

a reply to: Joecanada11

A great example of hypocrisy no doubt.

But also a great example of how statistics can be used against anyone.

But I'm still asking for any example where women are in fact discriminated against based on gender alone.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Joecanada11

A great example of hypocrisy no doubt.

But also a great example of how statistics can be used against anyone.

But I'm still asking for any example where women are in fact discriminated against based on gender alone.

It's usually a function of traditional families still being common. Women aren't really paid less for the same work anymore, but they do get paid less as a function of experience. If someone takes some time off to have a child and raise it for a couple years, their resume will suffer and that in turn leads to lower wages.

a reply to: Lysergic

Thanks lysergic.

Facts don't matter

a reply to: Aazadan

So that should inevitably lead to how much they will be paid right?

. If someone takes some time off to have a child and raise it for a couple years, their resume will suffer and that in turn leads to lower wages.

Would you suggest that fathers have the same rights?

There will always be aberrations that don't conform to the overall statistical analysis but, suffice it to say, the wage gap as a 'systemic patriarchal issue' in this country is a figment of our society's collective imagination.

First of all, the wage gap is based on inappropriate use of data and statistical analysis. In the U.S. the 77% number is calculated by looking at the median yearly earnings of women to men. The median is defined as the middle value of all the wages in a given sample. Using the median is useful if we are comparing winter temperatures between New York and Tampa, where one dimensional data has validity, but applying it to humans that have free will and biological differences proves nothing except that demagoguery works. Is the median wage lower for women? Absolutely it is, but the statistic is not an apples to apples, job for job comparison and thus has nothing to do with "paying women less than a man for doing the same job." Using the median without taking into consideration specifics of individuals in the workplace is intentionally misleading or ignorant. So what causes the variation in pay? Personal and workplace choices account for much of the gap. Labor Department research shows that men choose more dangerous and high stress jobs. Men choose higher paying career fields. And men hold more full time jobs, work longer hours, weekends, and nights than women. All these factors lead to higher wages regardless of gender. Stanford economist Thomas Sowell shows that "women are typically not educated as often in such highly paid fields as mathematics, science, and engineering, nor attracted to physically taxing and well paid fields as construction work, lumberjacking, coal mining and the like." All these factors create differences in pay that have nothing to do with the exploitation of women.

More

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Aazadan

So that should inevitably lead to how much they will be paid right?

For women with families yes.

Would you suggest that fathers have the same rights?

Outside of the last couple months of pregnancy where a woman is pretty much incapictated, fathers do have the same rights in theory to let the mother work and have a stay at home dad. It's not as popular in the US as it is elsewhere though. Some more work on this front would be nice but at the end of the day you still have a situation where having a child will hurt one parent's career unless they don't raise the child themselves.

Some industries are better than others in this regard.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

the wage gap as a 'systemic patriarchal issue' in this country is a figment of our society's collective imagination. 

Exactly. And I want one example otherwise.

Please. Much please.

My personal opinion is that wage equality is a good thing and if you take military pay such as say USA or Canada pay is equal as the situation on the ground is watched and moderated by the gubmint directly so it would just make sense that private sector and corporations would be following the same sort of model at least in my eyes out of a sense of fairness and decency.

Ahh the glass ceiling beckons.

Until you put some windex on it and see the other side.

I have only seen one woman in my line of work, and she was brawny.

Not sexist either, just the facts.

a reply to: rockintitz

If you really can pay a woman 25c less on the dollar why don't employers fire everyone and replace them all with women?

a reply to: rockintitz

So what you are asking for is an example of a company legitimately paying less for a female employee doing the same work, with same experience etc as a male employee You now that such as thing isn't possible to show show as any examples would be illegal practise therefore not "legitimate".

So basically you are reducing the pay gap to the most ridiculous level possible in order to claim it doesn't exist. Will just choice to ignore things like hiring & promotion practises, employment & educational opportunity, cultural and social norms and expectations pushing women into certain roles. Have fun with that.

The example about risk is also complete nonsense, I probably earn more than the median salaries in most of those field yet the biggest risk I have is a particularly nasty paper cut. (off topic but does anyone know why a pilot would be considered a high risk job?)

Saying that men work in high paying fields therefore there is no wage gap also seems a curious type of circular logic.

Here is some actual evidence, feel free to ignore if you prefer the oppressed male narrative.

thinkprogress.org...

I should add to my post, that any woman in my department, will be earning the exact same pay guaranteed.

But I expect the same caliber of work ethic from everyone.

a reply to: rockintitz

Oh yes, the wage gape myth. Can you imagine the crapstorm a company would get if they actually had two employees in the same position with different pay grades based on gender??

This draws a close paralell with the whole "institutional racism" nonsense. IT'S ILLEGAL! Not only that, but if you are a straight white male and even come close to alluding to something racist or sexist, you are going to BURN in the court of media public opinion. Look at Donald Trump, he is considered a full fledged sexist nazi. Easiest example, sorry.

It is ILLEGAL to discriminate in the USA. It drives me nuts how people sit here and talk about institutionalized racism and sexism.

If there was a gender or race pay gap, every single straight white male would be unemployed.

The statistics cited for this are always dishonest. So sick of this.