Caitlyn Jenner considering ‘de-transitioning’ ‘in the next couple years,’ author claims

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

What does "within" mean to you? Because that's what gender identity is. And no, we don't choose our gender identity. It just "is".

You don't even realize you are making my point for me, do you?

I'm still trying to find your point.

You say its in there somewhere?

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: queenofswords

no it doesn't, no one should care about a dysfunctional family and a dad going through a mid life crises. they do not contribute anything to society, they only take away from are energy and discussions like this are pointless. there is a countless amount of discussions we should be putting are energy towards.

So why are you here involved in this discussion if you think it's worthless and a waste of time? Clearly you have the time to waste, right?

And by the way it's crisis not "crises", it's our not "are", and you should capitalize after a period.

a reply to: Boadicea

I choose to listen to the vast majority of mental health professionals, and statements from well accepted mental health organizations. They all say that gender dysphoria is a real thing, and though they don't yet know exactly how it is caused, more and more research points to a neurological issue, i.e., not a choice.

The brain is where we get our consciousness - our self awareness. We are one of the few animals on this planet that has such awareness of self. Gender identity is part of that self awareness. Most of the time, it matches what the physical body is. Occasionally, it does not match. It's not by choice. People with gender dysphoria are completely functional, they work, they raise children, they get advanced degrees. They are writers, teachers, professionals. They are not insane or crazy. They simply have the problem of their conscious awareness not matching their physical bodies. This causes distress to them. Currently, the most successful treatment, according to the vast majority of mental health professionals, is to help them change their body to match their conscious self awareness. Yes, they could (and have in the past) live their lives suffering the distress every day, for their entire lives. But why do that, when you could do something that helps the distress? Therapy alone hasn't worked. There are no drugs that get rid of the dysphoria. You can't pray it away. You can't just "snap out of it" by choosing to.

Some day, there may be another treatment that works better. But now, this is what works best.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

Caitlyn has certainly NOT become any "poster girl" for Transgender people, far from it. That might have been an ambition or hers but she failed miserably with plenty of the ignorant bs she's spewed.

The general American public might think she somehow "represents" transgender people but she absolutely doesn't.

I think Jenner has brought awareness to the American public.

But, as she herself says, this is my journey, it is not about anyone else, I am not doing it for anyone else, I am not representing anyone else. It is not a transgender story, it is simply my story.

a reply to: Annee

telling his story

you're gonna get in trouble

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Annee

telling "her" story

you're gonna get in trouble

Oops! Fixed it.

telling "HER" story

a reply to: Annee

I'm still trying to find your point.

You say its in there somewhere?

Hmmm... I can only explain it for you: Gender means nothing if not in terms of physiology, and if anyone can define what a "man" or "woman" is any way they want. I can't recognize or understand it for you. But do let me know if/when you've figured it out and you'd like to discuss it further.

a reply to: mobiusmale

If he does want to change genders, then so be it. Leave the guy alone.

Not like he ever went through the actual procedure anyways. Getting boobies and wearing dresses isn't transgender..it's being a queen.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

I'm still trying to find your point.

You say its in there somewhere?

Hmmm... I can only explain it for you: Gender means nothing if not in terms of physiology, and if anyone can define what a "man" or "woman" is any way they want. I can't recognize or understand it for you. But do let me know if/when you've figured it out and you'd like to discuss it further.

Well the sliding scale is everything from Macho Neanderthal to Girlie Girl Betty Boop - - - and everything in between.

Who you are is determined mostly by your brain. All those neurons and chemical soup tell you who you are.

So, of course Gender is more then male & female - - could be a little of both. As I understand it some with Gender Dysphoria do switch their gender appearance back and forth - - - but, do use the restroom that is correct for their current appearance.

However, if you are female gender, you want to be what your brain is telling you - - - even if it doesn't match the physical packaging. (same with male gender)

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: mobiusmale

If he does want to change genders, then so be it. Leave the guy alone.

Not like he ever went through the actual procedure anyways. Getting boobies and wearing dresses isn't transgender..it's being a queen.

You are wrong.

Gender is in the brain, not the packaging.

No surgery or physical alteration is required to be transgender.

I am amazed that anyone would believe any crap spewed out by Fox News.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: mobiusmale

If he does want to change genders, then so be it. Leave the guy alone.

Not like he ever went through the actual procedure anyways. Getting boobies and wearing dresses isn't transgender..it's being a queen.

You are wrong.

Gender is in the brain, not the packaging.

No surgery or physical alteration is required to be transgender.

Thought science has proven, without a doubt, that gender is genetic.

In this case, Caitlin is genetically male.

....it is a scientific fact.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

I choose to listen to the vast majority of mental health professionals, and statements from well accepted mental health organizations.

I believe "accepted" is the operative word there.... all of whom have much to gain personally from such a position, and much to lose if they dare challenge the "accepted" (i.e., politically correct) opinion. And that's really what it boils down to: Opinion. Nothing tangible. Nothing that can be proven by the scientific method. Nothing that cannot be re-defined by anyone so inclined.

They all say that gender dysphoria is a real thing, and though they don't yet know exactly how it is caused, more and more research points to a neurological issue, i.e., not a choice.

Neurology may very well play a part. It may be the whole explanation for some, and not be relevant at all for others, and perhaps one of a combination of factors for others.

But it doesn't change the reality. If gender does not refer to one's physical parts, then it means nothing.

The brain is where we get our consciousness - our self awareness.

Our consciousness and self-awareness tells us that we are... it does not tell us what or who we are. The brain receives, processes, and transmits information in accordance with our experiences and how we evaluate those experiences -- nature and nurture. It cannot tell us we are "really" something we are not and have never experienced.

We are one of the few animals on this planet that has such awareness of self. Gender identity is part of that self awareness. Most of the time, it matches what the physical body is.

So gender is in fact determined by our physical body parts... not in our minds.

People with gender dysphoria are completely functional, they work, they raise children, they get advanced degrees. They are writers, teachers, professionals. They are not insane or crazy.

Of course not! They have, however, been sadly misinformed about what it means to be a man or a woman, and about their own inherent self worth.

They simply have the problem of their conscious awareness not matching their physical bodies. This causes distress to them.

Many folks have that same problem, manifested in various ways. For example, lots of folks think they are the the most beautiful/handsome creature to ever grace the earth... but they're not. And vice versa.

Currently, the most successful treatment, according to the vast majority of mental health professionals, is to help them change their body to match their conscious self awareness.

So I've read; but I'm not sure the reality bears that out. There are many with transition regret, including those who realize that they will never really be what they are not -- no matter how many hormones, no matter how many surgeries, no matter what they wear, etc. It may just be that for some folks, it is much easier to live the lie than to do the soul-searching and inner work necessary to love and like and accept themselves for themselves. For others, not so much. In fact, for some at least, it's even more devastating post op when they have to face the truth: They cannot be and never will be what they are not.

Yes, they could (and have in the past) live their lives suffering the distress every day, for their entire lives. But why do that, when you could do something that helps the distress?

For one, because the least invasive treatment with the fewest known adverse effects is pretty much always the best course of action. Every surgery has its inherent risks -- reconstructive surgery is not an exception. Lifelong dependency on synthetic hormones also has its risks -- not just for the patient, but for the rest of us in terms of the increased endocrine-disrupters released into our water.

Some day, there may be another treatment that works better. But now, this is what works best.

I believe that day will come when society -- and government -- stops trying to put men and women in little boxes and tell us who and what we are.

originally posted by: ChuckNasty

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: mobiusmale

If he does want to change genders, then so be it. Leave the guy alone.

Not like he ever went through the actual procedure anyways. Getting boobies and wearing dresses isn't transgender..it's being a queen.

You are wrong.

Gender is in the brain, not the packaging.

No surgery or physical alteration is required to be transgender.

Thought science has proven, without a doubt, that gender is genetic.

In this case, Caitlin is genetically male.

....it is a scientific fact.

You have gender mixed up with sexual organs.

Gender is in the brain.

Sexual organs between the legs.

Gender Dysphoria - - - Gender does not match physical packaging.

Even the Olympics doesn't use chromosome testing anymore. Haven't for years actually.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
I am amazed that anyone would believe any crap spewed out by Fox News.

FOX Entertainment.

Remember, they won their lawsuit in Florida that says they are entertainment and do not have to tell the truth.

They legally can say anything they want (within the law)

a reply to: Annee

Well the sliding scale is everything from Macho Neanderthal to Girlie Girl Betty Boop - - - and everything in between.

So, in other words, it is impossible to define who/what a man/woman really is because it can be anything from Macho Neanderthal to Girlie Girl Betty Boop and everything in between. So it comes right back to the fact that our gender is defined by our body parts, and our body parts do not dictate who and what we are, much less who and what a man or woman really is -- we make of it what we will.

Exactly my point.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

Well the sliding scale is everything from Macho Neanderthal to Girlie Girl Betty Boop - - - and everything in between.

So, in other words, it is impossible to define who/what a man/woman really is because it can be anything from Macho Neanderthal to Girlie Girl Betty Boop and everything in between. So it comes right back to the fact that our gender is defined by our body parts, and our body parts do not dictate who and what we are, much less who and what a man or woman really is -- we make of it what we will.

Exactly my point.

NO!

Each person defines themselves.

Most will choose either female or male.

But, there will be a percentage undefined.

Sexual organs are physical packaging, that's all.

Who we are is determined by the brain.

If you had an accident and your physical sex organs were gone - - - would it change who you are?

caitlyn jenner is an a hole supreme.
nothing to do with the transgender deal at all.

just a prick of a person.
my opinion. i should be allowed that

best part about caitlyn jenner is she is mentioned in a craig mack song.
great tune

Why isn't Jenner in jail for manslaughter?

originally posted by: TinySickTears
caitlyn jenner is an a hole supreme.
nothing to do with the transgender deal at all.

just a prick of a person.
my opinion. i should be allowed that

That could very well be true.

I'd have to have dealings with her to know though.