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originally posted by: Butterfinger
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
In the book of Numbers (31:18) God’s servant commands the Israelites to kill all of the used Midianite women who have been captured in war, and all of the boy children, but to keep all of the virgin girls for themselves. The Law of Moses spells out a purification ritual to prepare a captive virgin for life as a concubine. It requires her owner to shave her head and trim her nails and give her a month to mourn her parents before the first sex act (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). A Hebrew girl who is raped can be sold to her rapist for 50 shekels, or about $580 (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). He must then keep her as one of his wives for as long as she lives.
Abraham is married to his half-sister Sarah, but the two are childless for the first 75 years or so of their marriage. Frustrated, Sarah finally says, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Her slave, Hagar, becomes pregnant, and then later Sarah does too and the story gets complicated (Genesis 16). But that doesn’t stop Abraham’s grandson Jacob from participating in a competition, in which his two wives repeatedly send in their slaves to get pregnant by him, each trying to get more sons than the other (Genesis 30:1-22).
There are dozens of references validating both rape and slavery. It was a different time, so everyone else was doing it too. So I'm not pointing fingers soley at the bible. There is plenty of blame to go around.
I see where youre going, but none of those verses indicate the age of the girls.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Expanded Bible (EXB) 10 When you go to war against your enemies, the Lord will •help you defeat them [give them into your hands] so you will take them captive. 11 If you see a beautiful woman among the captives and are attracted to [desire; fall in love with] her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home, where she must shave her head and cut her nails 13 and change the clothes she was wearing when you captured her. After she has lived in your house and cried for her •parents [L father and her mother] for a month, you may marry her. You will be her husband, and she will be your wife. 14 But if you are not pleased with her, you must let her go anywhere she wants. You must not sell her for money or make her a slave, because you have taken away her honor [humiliated; exploited her].
In context.
You have to take them as your wife, not use them and sell them.
Nowhere in this passage says that anyone had sex with them while they were still children.
What we are missing is the scripture that defines Legal Jewish age for marriage.
You are inferring that the marriages took place immediately after conquest, if at all. That stance is not supported by the scriptures you are using.
But blasting Mohammad for crimes commited by every Christian hero, except Jesus, as proof of Islam being an evil religion, is just nonsensical.
originally posted by: Butterfinger
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
In the book of Numbers (31:18) God’s servant commands the Israelites to kill all of the used Midianite women who have been captured in war, and all of the boy children, but to keep all of the virgin girls for themselves. The Law of Moses spells out a purification ritual to prepare a captive virgin for life as a concubine. It requires her owner to shave her head and trim her nails and give her a month to mourn her parents before the first sex act (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). A Hebrew girl who is raped can be sold to her rapist for 50 shekels, or about $580 (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). He must then keep her as one of his wives for as long as she lives.
Abraham is married to his half-sister Sarah, but the two are childless for the first 75 years or so of their marriage. Frustrated, Sarah finally says, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Her slave, Hagar, becomes pregnant, and then later Sarah does too and the story gets complicated (Genesis 16). But that doesn’t stop Abraham’s grandson Jacob from participating in a competition, in which his two wives repeatedly send in their slaves to get pregnant by him, each trying to get more sons than the other (Genesis 30:1-22).
There are dozens of references validating both rape and slavery. It was a different time, so everyone else was doing it too. So I'm not pointing fingers soley at the bible. There is plenty of blame to go around.
I see where youre going, but none of those verses indicate the age of the girls.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Expanded Bible (EXB) 10 When you go to war against your enemies, the Lord will •help you defeat them [give them into your hands] so you will take them captive. 11 If you see a beautiful woman among the captives and are attracted to [desire; fall in love with] her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home, where she must shave her head and cut her nails 13 and change the clothes she was wearing when you captured her. After she has lived in your house and cried for her •parents [L father and her mother] for a month, you may marry her. You will be her husband, and she will be your wife. 14 But if you are not pleased with her, you must let her go anywhere she wants. You must not sell her for money or make her a slave, because you have taken away her honor [humiliated; exploited her].
In context.
You have to take them as your wife, not use them and sell them.
Nowhere in this passage says that anyone had sex with them while they were still children.
What we are missing is the scripture that defines Legal Jewish age for marriage.
You are inferring that the marriages took place immediately after conquest, if at all. That stance is not supported by the scriptures you are using.
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
originally posted by: Specimen
The perceptions of savage times of what was done,was done...There are quite a few myths that bring up the act or deed of rape like the Greek trinity committing rape, where as Set would rape Horus but no moral of the story other then getting F***'d by a God. Hell, even today we still revere Plato being a great Philosopher, or Nostradamus being an actual See'er into the future, but they are both boy lovers.
How common these type of relationships were back then, I don't want to know, maybe because people didn't live long enough, or maybe they are just bloody savages that can't control a thing in their life...IDK. Maybe their views of God letting made them feel better about their lives...
Sure there are countries that allow this crap, where others, will grab a machete, and go medieval. Plus, I don't think anybody going to a take a bullet to defend Pedos.
I think by nature we are just savages, making it a constant battle to do better. I'm just not sure excusing monsorous acts is the best way to improve..
originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Well, in that situation its was an awkward choice to put it lightly...
Either die with the rest, or be grafted/assimilated into Israel as someone's bride.
Not Sex slave. It clearly stated they are to wed and honor them as their spouse.
Rape.... thats the muddy pond. As we all probably agree arranged marriage could be considered a form of rape.
Individual results may vary?
I dont approve of taking brides from war, or arranged marriage.
I'm just here to help assess the age of this verse's females.
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
originally posted by: Parazurvan
What book is all this written in?
I know I Israelites sacrificed children to Molech in the Old Testament and probably today it is done by many secret societies with ties to the cult of Molech that is Judaism. I have heard of many generational occult Jewish families and Mormons practice it who practice it today.
And they captured women as booty, surely for sex slaves.
Israeli commandos have been known to use rape as a terror tactic and care nothing for the life of any non Jew. Seriously.
Anybody ever heard of Talmud allows pedophilia
I'm not sure "still practiced today" is fair.
Your always going to have some idiot some where do such things, but I doubt you could find enough of them to fill up an Applebee's...
Also almost every fighting force uses or has used rape as a military tactic. That's where "rape and pillage" comes from.
I just don't like pointing fingers at a specific group, when everyone's fore fathers did the same.
originally posted by: Specimen
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
originally posted by: Specimen
The perceptions of savage times of what was done,was done...There are quite a few myths that bring up the act or deed of rape like the Greek trinity committing rape, where as Set would rape Horus but no moral of the story other then getting F***'d by a God. Hell, even today we still revere Plato being a great Philosopher, or Nostradamus being an actual See'er into the future, but they are both boy lovers.
How common these type of relationships were back then, I don't want to know, maybe because people didn't live long enough, or maybe they are just bloody savages that can't control a thing in their life...IDK. Maybe their views of God letting made them feel better about their lives...
Sure there are countries that allow this crap, where others, will grab a machete, and go medieval. Plus, I don't think anybody going to a take a bullet to defend Pedos.
I think by nature we are just savages, making it a constant battle to do better. I'm just not sure excusing monsorous acts is the best way to improve..
Thats the thing, it is nature, she can be beautiful flower, with some very protruding thorns that could give an allergic reaction that could kill without mercy. There are quite a few animals that kill young, or force sex on their opposing genders, and would age ever be a concern for them...Probably not till some pheromones are released.
Sugar coating horrible deeds, and a simple apology from the offender is not going to fix anything,it should be dealt with the upmost importance and vilification. But does one have to be a bigger, more savage animal to fix the problem? Not going to bring up some moral upright justice speech about being depraved of humanity that killing them is wrong, but it shouldn't turn into a witch hunt...when there aren't any witches to hunt in the first place.
It safe to ignore a pack of wolves attacking other enemy villages, until that pack comes to yours.
originally posted by: Parazurvan
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
originally posted by: Parazurvan
What book is all this written in?
I know I Israelites sacrificed children to Molech in the Old Testament and probably today it is done by many secret societies with ties to the cult of Molech that is Judaism. I have heard of many generational occult Jewish families and Mormons practice it who practice it today.
And they captured women as booty, surely for sex slaves.
Israeli commandos have been known to use rape as a terror tactic and care nothing for the life of any non Jew. Seriously.
Anybody ever heard of Talmud allows pedophilia
I'm not sure "still practiced today" is fair.
Your always going to have some idiot some where do such things, but I doubt you could find enough of them to fill up an Applebee's...
Also almost every fighting force uses or has used rape as a military tactic. That's where "rape and pillage" comes from.
I just don't like pointing fingers at a specific group, when everyone's fore fathers did the same.
If I point a finger at a specific group that has pro pedophilic laws in its scripture (Talmud)
, it is because it is a specific group's book.
As far as it happening today I am sure you are aware of Bohemian Grove. That is just one event in a year. Child and human sacrifice are not public knowledge but it happens and at the top of the cults pyramid is Zionism and B'nai B'rith.
Are you justifying war crimes because "every one does it?". Everybody doesn't do it.
originally posted by: bra1nwash
From a theological standpoint the figurehead of a religion is believed to be omnipotent. Chris is omnipotent, he knew more about morals and ethics than anyone and his moral teachings are still valid today although modern Christianity is more open and Christian in essence than it was in history. In this sense Mohamed would therefore be expected to have the same advanced morality and if he was truly enlightened and elevated by God than his moral principles should still be considered valid regardless of the evolution of society. Unfortunately for Muslims they are invalid. Their morals are not logically sound. Their beliefs seem repulsive because they in fact are repulsive. Unfortunately we in the West have a chronic acceptance problem, perhaps because of the Christian values that are responsible for the evolved openness of pour societies. It's ok to be different ideologically and it's also ok to not want people who are morally repulsive in your neighborhood. So yes Mohamed was and is a pedophile. Many of his followers are paedophiles. The only difference is we Christians prosecute our perverts and Muslims conspire to pervert together.
originally posted by: MEDIKATED
Don't you know muslims are peaceful people and are exempt from being called out on their bigotry and sexism by liberal lunatics.
originally posted by: porsche92
If this information is combined with the presence of his name on the list of the first Muslims, we arrive at the result that her birthday should have been about the year 606. Consequently, it must have been at least 17 years old at the time of marriage.
Aisha certainly memories of the period of Mecca are not limited to this hadith. Her memories also confirm:
a) That she had seen two people who had remained in Mecca from the elephant begging. This event took place 40 years before the prophethood and serve as important historical moment which the Arabs used PWR reference.
b) It describes that during difficult times in Mecca, the Prophet of God went to her house the morning and afternoon and her father, Abu Bakr, was trying to go to Abyssinia.
c) its Declaration under which they were originally required two days and then apologize to the residents became four, while during the military campaigns of prayer mandatory number remained the same.
d) In reporting on the early days it was said that "Isafi and Naila had committed a crime in the Kaaba and accordingly Lord had turned to stone as a man and woman from the tribe Xhurhum."
The feeling of being betrothed before the engagement: Another factor that supports the above view is that when the Prophet A.Ş marriage was a matter under discussion, Aisha was in negotiations for engagement with Mutim ibn 'Adi son. The suggestion to marry Aisha, the Prophet came from Hawla A.Ş bint Hakim, wife of Uthman ibn Mauzinit, who was not part of his family. Both situations show that it had reached the age of community engagement and considered as candidates for marriage.
As is known, the engagement did not materialize because of Ibn Adijit family refused for fear of embracing Islam by their son. Aisha's engagement with the Prophet r.a A.Ş was conducted after this event. Consequently, the agreement to marry was reached before the beginning of the prophetic mission or after the call to Islam was made public (three years after the Prophet began the descent of the announcement). If agreement is reached before the start of the mission, together with the idea that Aisha was 9 years of age when she married, already shaken by the foundation shows that Aisha was born earlier suspected. For this reason, some say it was 13 or 14 years old at the time.
Should not put aside the fact that this decision was taken during that Islam began to be preached publicly. This corresponds to 613-614 years. If it is assumed that Aisha was born four years after the commencement of the prophetic mission, then it turns out that at this time it was not yet born and therefore it is impossible to talk about a marital agreement in such circumstances. In this case you have to admit that it was at least 7 or 8 years old when he broke the engagement with the son of Ibn Adijit, therefore, it should have been the year 605.