British Challenger 2

Originally posted by MAVERICK05
im not sure what to believe. is the british challenger 2 better than m1 a2 abrams that the us has? DO YOU REALLY THINK THE US WOULD LET ANOTHER COUNTRY HAVE THE MORE SUPERIOR VEHICLES? my answer is hell no.

my answer has to be yes.

The M1A1/2 Abrams main battle tank is manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS). The first M1 tank was produced in 1978, the M1A1 in 1985 and the M1A2 in 1986. 3,273 M1 tanks were produced for the US Army. 4,796 M1A1 tanks were built for the US Army, 221 for the US Marines and 555 co-produced with Egypt. Egypt has ordered a further 200 M1A1 tanks with production to continue to 2005. 77 M1A2 tanks have been built for the US Army, 315 for Saudi Arabia and 218 for Kuwait. For the M1A2 Upgrade Program, over 600 M1 Abrams tanks are being upgraded to M1A2 configuration. Deliveries began in 1998.


In March 2004, the Australian Army announced the purchase of 59 US Army M1A1 tanks to enter service from 2007.

Sorce

[edit on 23/1/2005 by 300k]

That's the number of M1A2's first delivered. America has about a thousand 1,000 M1A2's. What was sold to Egypt and Saudi Arabia was stripped down, as well.

Kozzy....

Actually the round was a APFSDS - DU and like I say it was a Challenger I, here's a link....

www.army-technology.com...

Its about 3/4 a a way down the page. The whol page is quite interesting

Originally posted by spacemunkey
Kozzy....

Actually the round was a APFSDS - DU and like I say it was a Challenger I, here's a link....

www.army-technology.com...

Its about 3/4 a a way down the page. The whol page is quite interesting

Hmm, then perhaps it was. It makes sense though, the 105mm rifled gun is more accurate then either the 120mm rifled gun and 120mm smoothbore. The 90mm gun is even more accurate then this too.

a British Army Challenger tank achieve the longest range confirmed tank-to-tank kill at 5100 meters or 5.1km with an rifled 120mm APFSDS 'Charm' depleted uranium round.

it was 120mm

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo

a British Army Challenger tank achieve the longest range confirmed tank-to-tank kill at 5100 meters or 5.1km with an rifled 120mm APFSDS 'Charm' depleted uranium round.

it was 120mm

No it wasn't. That kill was by a Challenger 1 with a 105mm gun. The Challenger 2 didn't enter service till 1994.

no. definately a 120mm rifled barrel

Originally posted by spacemunkey
no. definately a 120mm rifled barrel

No, that's literally impossible. The Challenger 2 did not enter service until 1994, 3 years after the Gulf War. The only British army tank was the Challenger 1, with it's 105mm rifled gun. This makes sense because 105mm is more accurate.

I think were getting confused here.

yes the Challenger 2 didnt enter service until well after Gulf War 1 (it was actually ordered in 1991 during/after the Gulf War). It was Challenger 1 that was used in the Gulf War 1. As for the barrel on both it was 120mm rifled.

Here's the link for Challenger 1 -

www.fas.org...

Here's the link for Challenger 2 -

www.fas.org...

As far as I am aware, there has never been a modern UK MBT with a 105mm barrel, the only MBT's that I can think of that had a 105mm barrel were the M60 and M1 - US

Originally posted by spacemunkey
I think were getting confused here.

yes the Challenger 2 didnt enter service until well after Gulf War 1 (it was actually ordered in 1991 during/after the Gulf War). It was Challenger 1 that was used in the Gulf War 1. As for the barrel on both it was 120mm rifled.

Here's the link for Challenger 1 -

www.fas.org...

Here's the link for Challenger 2 -

www.fas.org...

As far as I am aware, there has never been a modern UK MBT with a 105mm barrel, the only MBT's that I can think of that had a 105mm barrel were the M60 and M1 - US

Oh # you're right. Whoops.

Originally posted by spacemunkey
As far as I am aware, there has never been a modern UK MBT with a 105mm barrel, the only MBT's that I can think of that had a 105mm barrel were the M60 and M1 - US

Yep, in fact this was a major bone of contention. Ever since WWII when the Tiget tank came out the British Army has always forcefully requested that their tanks have exceptional guns so that they would hopefully never be outgunned again. They have, since then, been a major fan of 120mm gums. The Americans wanted 105mm to be NATO standard, and the Brits wouldn't have it.

Originally posted by Kozzy

Originally posted by spacemunkey
I think were getting confused here.

yes the Challenger 2 didnt enter service until well after Gulf War 1 (it was actually ordered in 1991 during/after the Gulf War). It was Challenger 1 that was used in the Gulf War 1. As for the barrel on both it was 120mm rifled.

Here's the link for Challenger 1 -

www.fas.org...

Here's the link for Challenger 2 -

www.fas.org...

As far as I am aware, there has never been a modern UK MBT with a 105mm barrel, the only MBT's that I can think of that had a 105mm barrel were the M60 and M1 - US

Oh # you're right. Whoops.

I just wish to impart some information I heard at the time of GW1 (in those pre-internet days) Challenger 2 did go to GW1

Vickers Defence Systems started work on the Challenger 2 in November 1986 as a private venture and shortly afterwards, in March 1987, made its first presentation of the vehicle to the British Ministry of Defence. In February 1988, Vickers submitted a formal proposal regarding the tank to the MOD following the issue of the staff requirement. In December 1988 it was announced that Vickers Defence Systems was to be awarded a £90 million contract to undertake a demonstration phase (also referred to as the proof of principle phase) which lasted until September 1990. This timed with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

In the days after the Iraqi invasion the coalition came together and it was apparent that the British army was mobilising to fight they put into place programme to send out the demostration models to Saudi Arabia and actually managed to send out enought prototype to equip a unit (I heard from one source that it was 12 tanks) during the Desert shield phase (remember this build p and the following air war took some time)

Thus Challenger 2 did participate in GW1 in this un-official/experimental capacity. How it performed what combat it saw I do not know, but it was said that this event was a strong arguement for the British army to keep with Vickers and Challenger 2. In June 1991 not long after the end of the GW1 the British Government selected the Challenger 2.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by Popeye]

Hello, my name is Chally.
I hear you've been talking about me.
If you've anything bad to say about me, SAY IT TO MY FACE. thank you. lol

Alright, mothaf***a, my name is Abrams, you got somethin' ta say???

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Broadsword20068]

It's coming to get you

The abrahams used British Chobham Armour made here in the UK, in fact about 2-3 miles from where i live in the town of Woking (HGWells, War of the Worlds town) where the armour is produced and shipped out in premade pieces to be fitted onto the Abrehams in the US.

I don't know about that, because yes the Abrams does use a variant of the British armor, but it uses a U.S.-made variant I believe. The armor is of British design, American make and a bit modified by America for the Abrams. And it is the ABRAMS tank, not the Abraham!

I don't even think the Abram uses Chobam armor exactly:

The hull and turret are protected by advanced armor similar to the Chobam armor developed by the British Ministry of Defense.

www.globalsecurity.org...

It uses an early version of the chobham armour with some depleted uranium plate inserts in critical areas.

Britain sold the rights to 1st gen chobham armour in the 80's and the abram is the only U.S tank to be fitted with it.

Britain has used chobham on Challenger I, Challenger II and also the Warrior fighting vehicles, which is currently the best protected and most powerfull APC in the world.

The Challenger II uses second generation Chobham (not sold to the US)... and is currently the best protected tank in NATO.

(warrior)

It's probably not the same exact armor used on British tanks. It's probably been modified by America. It doesn't seem to come from the UK, either.